IRCLogs for #armagetron in 2019-10 • ArmaNelgTron.tk

Log from 2019-10-01:
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[20:55:18] <Lucifer_arma> Ok, so, random dizzy spells mean I forgot to take my antidepressant yesterday.  Good to know.
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Log from 2019-10-02:
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Log from 2019-10-03:
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Log from 2019-10-04:
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[16:21:43] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.2.8-armagetronad-work] r1523 Revert to compiled in prefix if binreloc fails....
[16:51:52] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.4-armagetronad] r3111 Merge from 0.2.8 || [0.2.8-armagetronad-work] r1524 Make binreloc work again...
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Log from 2019-10-05:
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Log from 2019-10-06:
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[09:31:53] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.4-armagetronad] r3112 Avoid flickering of lowered rim walls... || [0.4-armagetronad] Avoid spurious display list deletions for lowered walls || [0.4-armagetronad] Avoid lowered rim wall flicker...
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Log from 2019-10-07:
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[20:50:16] <Lucifer_arma> The Russians are trying to influence our forums
[20:50:56] * Lucifer_arma didn't even know Donald Trump knew about our forums, so is a bit surprised he asked them to try to get dirt on Joe Biden there.
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Log from 2019-10-08:
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[14:26:21] <Z-Man> But Lucifer, Ukraine != Russia. He only asked Ukraine and China. An nicely, too! No pressure involved at all, that the aid money was withheld was just a coincidence.
[15:05:07] <kevinh> Just a coincidence.
[15:06:44] <kevinh> "Russia, if you are listening...", just a coincidence they actually were listening.  Just a coincidence they had the information he was talking about.
[16:12:29] <Lucifer_arma> Ah, but we only know about the Ukraine/Chine/Italy/Australia/Gondwallaland connections because they've been revealed to us.  We can take it for granted he's either making the same request of Russia, or he knows he doesn't even need to ask
[16:13:05] <Lucifer_arma> Honestly, I actually got a little angry when he said that Rick Perry told him to make the call.
[16:13:23] <Lucifer_arma> True, Rick Perry is saying he told him to make the call, he just didn't tell Trump to make the call about the Bidens
[16:13:51] <Lucifer_arma> but as much as Rick Perry is a shill for corporate interests, and as much as he'd do anything for power, the one line he wouldn't cross is treason
[16:14:15] <Lucifer_arma> he may be a douche, but he is a Texan, and that means he's my douche, and he wouldn't cross that line
[16:15:15] <Lucifer_arma> but man, this whole impeachment thing is really starting to look like John Cleese got with Harold Ramis's ghost and Dan Ayckroyd and wrote the script
[16:15:33] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not even terrified because it's so surreal
[16:16:33] <Z-Man> But clearly, you must see that Biden is despicable and would be a worse president than Trump. So Trump is acting in America's best interest when he gets perfectly legal investigations against him going that may take him out of the picture.
[16:18:24] <Z-Man> In the end, the impeachment is probably not going to succeed. It's still correct to start it, as a mark for the future of how far you can push it before action gets taken against you.
[16:47:52] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think the impeachment will succeed during his first term.  In fact, I think the reason Nancy Pelosi's been trying to drag her feet on it is because she also doesn't think it'll succeed in his first term, not when he can still go for re-election
[16:48:29] <Lucifer_arma> and we're too close to the election to do it properly, anyway.
[16:48:51] <Lucifer_arma> ...aaaand, then if it were successful, close to the election, that'd leave the republicans without an actual candidate
[16:49:07] <Lucifer_arma> so, if it's going to succeed, it has to start in 2021, and Trump has to win re-election
[16:50:41] <Lucifer_arma> the primary purpose of waving it out right now is to tell our friends and allies to hang in there a bit before doing anything they might regret later
[16:50:42] <Z-Man> Maybe the hope is not to actually succeed, but just to have it ongoing and looming during the next election? Dunno what an impeachment does psychologically.
[16:51:07] <Lucifer_arma> with Johnson, it rendered him a lame duck (he's the president who succeeded Lincoln after her was assassinated)
[16:51:14] <Z-Man> Here the closest thing we have is a Misstrauensvotum, where the parliament essentially decides it is time to repeat the election of the chancelor.
[16:51:32] <Z-Man> They're over quickly, usually.
[16:52:12] <Z-Man> And don't need to be based on misconduct of any kind.
[16:53:02] <Lucifer_arma> that's one of the issues with impeachment, actually.  The constitution uses the phrase "high crimes and misdemeanors".  The 25th amendment (I think) is the one that provides a way to remove the president due to incompetence, and basically any reason
[16:53:12] <Lucifer_arma> but it requires people who serve at the pleasure of the president to remove him
[16:54:00] <Lucifer_arma> but Bill Clinton was impeached for obstruction of justice, not just because he lied under oath, but also because he told other people to lie under oath
[16:55:01] <Lucifer_arma> in keeping him, the Senate determined (rightfully, I believe) that the specific reasons he was obstructing justice were insufficient to remove him from office, and they didn't indicate he was behaving badly as President, even if he was behaving badly as a husband
[16:55:18] <Lucifer_arma> because the president actually is allowed to break the law as part of his job
[16:56:12] <Z-Man> The law, but not the constitution?
[16:56:12] <Lucifer_arma> he's not above the law, necessarily, but he's not going to jail for failing to pay his traffic tickets
[16:57:08] <Lucifer_arma> it's more that he can't break laws willy-nilly, but we don't want laws stopping him from doing his job correctly
[16:57:45] <Lucifer_arma> for example, we didn't prosecute Bush for his torture policies, even though we all agree that it was torture
[16:58:19] <Lucifer_arma> there's a significant portion of the country that believes that was criminal, and that we could prosecute him, now that he's out of office
[16:58:26] <Z-Man> Makes sense.
[16:58:46] <Lucifer_arma> however, at the time, he and a lot of people thought the water-boarding and stuff was actually resulting in actionable intelligence that kept us safe
[16:59:04] <Lucifer_arma> if, and only if, that were objectively true, we want our president free to pursue such measures.
[16:59:45] <Lucifer_arma> now that he's out of office, we're not prosecuting him because that would potentially intimidate a future president from trying something that seems to work and could keep us safe
[17:00:05] <Lucifer_arma> at the same time, we're generally rejecting of candidates who support torture (remember Trump lost the popular vote!)
[17:00:38] <Lucifer_arma> we also won't turn Bush over to the international court for prosecution, although he could easily be prosecuted in the Hague
[17:01:21] <Lucifer_arma> so. Clinton obstructing justice over a blowjob is fine, but Trump obstructing justice over deliberately inviting foreign interference in our elections is not fine
[17:01:55] <Lucifer_arma> for the record, I think we should prosecute Bush for war crimes
[17:02:16] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, the Senate and how it's constructed is a vistigial trait of slavery
[17:02:50] <Lucifer_arma> we have two senators per state as a compromise between free states and slave states made back in 1788 or so.
[17:03:13] <Lucifer_arma> as a result of that decision, republican senators have a majority in the senate, but they represent somewhere around 40% of the population
[17:04:16] <Lucifer_arma> we could very well be in the transition phase from a "for the people, by the people" government to a minority-rule banana republic
[17:05:09] <Lucifer_arma> and there are a lot of us that think that removing Trump and letting Pence take the oath will hasten our transition to minority rule
[17:05:54] <Lucifer_arma> if I am correct, that means that Trump's astonishing idiocy is the only thing protecting us for now, but if we don't fix the senate, I don't think we can stop this tide
[17:10:07] <Lucifer_arma> so, sadly, I'm working on more of a plan B with my family.  I'm assuming we slide away from freedom for awhile and am working on preparing my kids and I to live in a non-free US
[17:10:45] <Lucifer_arma> we're asking questions like "How do we preserve our family values if our government system doesn't allow us?"
[17:11:06] <Lucifer_arma> and "If we can overthrow, what/when/how/etc will we do?"
[17:11:08] <Z-Man> There is always (I hope) the option to live in a free non-US.
[17:11:22] <Lucifer_arma> and, of course, how are we going to live through the climate change apocalypse?
[17:11:42] <Lucifer_arma> we're voting and doing what we can, and we're talking about ways we can get more involved in the political process
[17:11:53] <Lucifer_arma> plan B is still the secondary plan, after all
[17:12:32] <Lucifer_arma> we just can't take it for granted the US will stay free.  My parents could, in their lifetimes, take that for granted.  That's one of the things different in our generation.  :(
[17:13:36] <Lucifer_arma> going with the German comparison, heh heh, we're like political dissidents in 1930 Germany asking how we're going to survive the next two decades
[17:13:47] <Z-Man> I don't think Freedom as a hole is at stake in the US. Sure, power can be distributed inequally because the system is optimized to *WORK* in an era where it would take a week for a message to cross the country.
[17:13:51] <Lucifer_arma> because we know what's happening is temporary
[17:14:14] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think we're headed to totalitarian rule, or even extreme authoritarian rule
[17:14:57] <Z-Man> That shit hopefully does not fly any more.
[17:15:37] <Z-Man> What you see here in Europe a bit is that as soon as the populist right wing get some power, they immediately deconstruct themselves.
[17:15:54] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think we'll have a nazi-style holocaust, either, but the older concentration policy (including the japanese internments we had here in the US) could be on the table again
[17:17:09] <Z-Man> Even for that, you need a "likely enemy of the state" label to stick to people you want to intern.
[17:17:16] <Lucifer_arma> well, from where we started in 2016, and where we're at now, there's definitely plenty of room for us to stay completely free and even enhance and extend liberties to our historically oppressed minorities
[17:18:06] <Lucifer_arma> ah, we've got "socialists" as such a label right now
[17:18:40] <Lucifer_arma> so we have the label, and the people willing to use the label to attack their enemies
[17:19:02] <Lucifer_arma> we've also had "liberal" fit in for that, as well as the "communist" crap during McCarthyism
[17:19:11] <Lucifer_arma> so it's not like we haven't slid this direction before
[17:19:46] <Lucifer_arma> what's unprecedented is the relative lack of power the majority of people in this country actually have
[17:20:16] <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'd feel better if I studied the senate makeup during the fifties
[17:20:51] <Lucifer_arma> but between the lack of majority power and the concentration of minority power (the minority here being rich white people), we're in new territory for the US
[17:21:22] <Z-Man> What ticks me of is the amount of people who don't WANT power, i.e. who don't vote.
[17:21:23] <Lucifer_arma> our other saving grace is the fact that the power concentration is also intensely focused in older people like Mitch McConnell
[17:21:44] <Lucifer_arma> I had that conversation with my youngest the other day :)
[17:22:11] <Lucifer_arma> I told him that voting was a group power.  He's right that individual votes don't count, but he's wrong to put expectations on his individual vote counting
[17:22:40] <Lucifer_arma> votes are powerful as a group action, so we're duty-bound to do our part as a tiny part of the group
[17:22:56] <Z-Man> Yep.
[17:23:31] <Lucifer_arma> and if we want individual action to count, then we're looking at becoming political.  Running for office, becoming a lobbyist, joining somebody's staff, etc.
[17:23:41] <Z-Man> Anyway, bedtime for me, need sleep or I fully get a cold.
[17:23:47] <Lucifer_arma> 'night :)
[17:24:01] <Lucifer_arma> and don't worry, it's not as dire as I make it sound.  I called it "Plan B", after all ;)
[17:24:46] <Z-Man> Yeah, I figured :) We all need something to keep our brain busy. Not enough sabre-toothed tigers around any more.
[19:42:56] <Lucifer_arma> Why do we call the so-called Greatest Generation the ones who started WW2?
[19:43:13] <Lucifer_arma> doesn't that make them the Shittiest Generation Who Caused The Biggest War That Nearly Brought On An Apocalypse?
[19:43:38] <Lucifer_arma> that's like celebrating Trump for being a great president everytime he reverses his own bad decision
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Log from 2019-10-09:
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Log from 2019-10-10:
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Log from 2019-10-11:
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[17:32:14] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.4-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r2398 Remove auto_ptr and adapt sensors to non-exception based API... || [0.4-armagetronad-fortress_ai] r2397 Merge from 0.4/master
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Log from 2019-10-12:
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Log from 2019-10-13:
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Log from 2019-10-16:
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Log from 2019-10-17:
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[19:53:18] <Lucifer_arma> given that the crankshaft turns twice for every once through the otto cycle, how do you know when the engine is in the intake stroke?
[19:53:31] <Lucifer_arma> using only the crankshaft position sensor
[19:53:41] <Lucifer_arma> if there were a camshaft position sensor, it'd be different
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Log from 2019-10-18:
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Log from 2019-10-19:
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[18:25:24] <Armanelgtron> !ping
[18:25:25] <nelg-bot> Armanelgtron: pong
[18:25:41] <Armanelgtron> wow, I would have expected it to drop out by now
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Log from 2019-10-20:
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Log from 2019-10-21:
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Log from 2019-10-22:
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Log from 2019-10-23:
[04:00:44] <Lucifer_arma> ]ping
[04:00:44] <ljrbot> pong
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Log from 2019-10-24:
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[19:33:10] <Lucifer_arma> well then, I guess wii will see how well Dolphin works
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[22:58:20] <Lucifer_arma> sometimes my technical skills amaze me
[22:58:52] <Lucifer_arma> apparently, while quite drunk, I managed to hack my wii, setup the homebrew channel, format and setup an external hard drive to store wii games, and get it all working
[22:59:28] <Lucifer_arma> of course, now I'm sober, the hard drive can't be read by a linux pc, and I have no idea why, and I'm trying to remember how I set it up in the first place, but since I was Pretty Drunk, I'm having to reverse-engineer my own work
[22:59:46] <Lucifer_arma> luckily, I just did a bunch of download+install crap, so it's not like I'm having to do any real reverse-engineering
[23:00:36] <Lucifer_arma> hopefully gparted can rescue my drive so I can copy all of the games I ripped onto my new hard drive and use Dolphin to play them instead of the actual wii

Log from 2019-10-25:
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[04:41:39] <Z-Man> I can't remember how I did those things even though I did them sober.
[04:52:00] <Z-Man> It's the stupid details. You have to install IOS 259 or something.
[04:53:05] <Z-Man> Back when I did it, there only was a Windows program that could deal with the Wii hd format.
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[18:52:47] <luke-jr> Lucifer_arma: lol
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Log from 2019-10-26:
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[16:59:34] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [armagetronad-gitbzr-scripts] r34 merge of own independent changes... || [armagetronad-gitbzr-scripts] r33 Add armagetronad-0.2.8.3 branch...
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Log from 2019-10-27:
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[10:03:41] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.4-armagetronad] r3113 Merge branch 0.2.8 into 0.4 || [0.4-armagetronad] Merge branch '0.2.8.3' into 0.2.8... || [0.2.8-armagetronad-work] r1525 Merge branch '0.2.8.3' into 0.2.8...
[10:33:44] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.2.8-armagetronad-work] r1526 Merge branch '0.2.8.3' into 0.2.8 || [0.2.8.3-armagetronad-work] r1228 Explicitly request python2 for sortresources.... || [0.2.8.3-armagetronad-work] r1227 Add .gitignore || [0.2.8.3-armagetronad-work] r1226 Cherry pick merge from 0.2.8 of build fixes...
[11:03:50] <ljrbot> New news from bzr: [0.2.8.3-armagetronad-work] r1230 Make binreloc work again... || [0.2.8.3-armagetronad-work] r1229 Disable some GCC warnings
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[11:55:10] <Lucifer_arma> seems to me that you can make a fuel injection system using only a throttle position sensor and an oxygen sensor
[12:16:11] <Z-Man> Are there oxygen sensors fast, reliable and cheap enough for that?
[12:18:40] <Z-Man> And durable. Must be able to still work after being exploded repeatedly, essentially.
[12:19:40] <Z-Man> (I admit that I don't even know how an oxygen sensor would even work, the only thing I can think of would be spectral analysis.)
[12:19:57] <Z-Man> Which at least deals with the 'fast' part.
[12:25:59] <Lucifer_arma> yes, they put them on cars all the time :)
[12:26:05] <Lucifer_arma> ]math calc 360/8
[12:26:05] <ljrbot> Lucifer_arma: 45
[12:26:51] <Lucifer_arma> they have a 1V drop when your fuel/air mixture is pretty close to stoichometric.  Higher and it's rich, lower and it's lean
[12:27:36] <Lucifer_arma> so, you adjust the time the fuel injector is open to change the fuel, and, in my thinking, you'd use the throttle position sensor + a model of the cross section in the throttle to determine how much air is coming in
[12:28:12] <Lucifer_arma> what I'm finding on scooters and motorcycles, though, and other small engines, is that they use a manifold air pressure sensor and an intake air temperature sensor to determine the mass of air going in
[12:28:36] <Lucifer_arma> but it seems to me that you can take the volume from a decent model of the throttle and tweak it based on the oxygen sensor readings
[12:29:29] <Lucifer_arma> so, you'd have, say injectorinterval(angle) = (some coefficient) * (calculation of cross section) * angle
[12:29:55] <Lucifer_arma> angle would be given by the throttle position sensor, and you'd adjust "some coefficient" based on the output from the oxygen sensor
[12:30:37] <Lucifer_arma> the calculation of cross section is a function I have to derive, but it'll have the area of a circle in it somewhere
[12:30:47] <Lucifer_arma> or ellipse, something like that
[12:31:31] <Lucifer_arma> because inside the throttle body, you have a disc that rotate when you open the throttle.  When it's closed, it cuts off 99.99% of the air intake, and there's a little passage to allow air to pass so the engine can idle
[12:32:24] <Lucifer_arma> so, as you rotate that disc, you get an ellipse of increasing size - area of the disc that represents the area that air can flow through to the engine
[12:32:50] <Lucifer_arma> you also have the crankshaft position sensor, which is already on the engine I'm talking about, so you know not only what position the crankshaft is in, but also how fast it's turning
[12:32:59] <Z-Man> Neat geometric fact for you there: the shape of the disk does not matter.
[12:33:32] <Z-Man> your formula is just going to have a (1-cos(angle)) factor in there.
[12:33:40] <Lucifer_arma> so, I'm thinking that you can crib an air mass measurement based on the angle of the throttle, the engine speed, and the inner diameter of the throttle body
[12:34:03] <Lucifer_arma> why not just do sin(angle) ?
[12:34:26] <Lucifer_arma> the angle is going to be [0,90]
[12:34:31] <Z-Man> because that would be wrong :)
[12:34:40] <Lucifer_arma> in degrees, of course.  Actually, the input coming in would be in volts :)
[12:35:06] <Z-Man> well, assuming angle 0 means its fully closed, angle 90 is fully open.
[12:35:16] <Lucifer_arma> heh, well, I'm not on the math part yet, I'm still trying to determine what I'd have to purchase just to get started :)
[12:35:50] <Z-Man> I'm definitely the wrong person to give advice there :)
[12:36:25] <Lucifer_arma> not really, the ratio we're looking for is like 14.7:1 of air:fuel
[12:36:51] <Lucifer_arma> so the question is: what sensors do I need to determine the mass of air coming in?
[12:36:59] <Lucifer_arma> I control the mass of fuel
[12:37:27] <Lucifer_arma> the basic calculation is (air mass)/14.7 = fuel mass
[12:38:06] <Lucifer_arma> but fuel mass is easy.  The fuel comes from the tank pressurized to like 35psi, and I know the cross section of the fuel injector (it's a circle :)  )
[12:38:26] <Lucifer_arma> so volume/time open = total volume, then volume * density = mass
[12:38:39] <Lucifer_arma> wait, volume * time open
[12:38:43] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, you get the idea :)
[12:39:13] <Lucifer_arma> typically, though, the throttle position sensor is used to determine what the driver wants, because the actual mass of air getting pulled in is dependent on engine speed
[12:39:35] <Lucifer_arma> so if I use the TPS to measure air mass, I'm only directly measuring the driver's desired air mass
[12:40:20] <Lucifer_arma> so what you do there, then, is you make the mixture slightly rich to increase engine speed when the throttle is opened, and you lean it to decrease engine speed when the throttle is closed
[12:41:16] <Lucifer_arma> so I guess the real question is, can I come to a correct air/fuel mixture using only the oxygen sensor as input?
[12:41:52] <Lucifer_arma> it'd be a lot easier to answer these questions if a simulator existed for all of this.  :)
[12:42:13] <Lucifer_arma> you know, a simulator I could plug into an arduino simulator, so I can use the arduino simulator to run the code I write
[12:43:14] <Z-Man> Such a thing is bound to exist, only not affordable and certainly not OS.
[12:43:19] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, back to trying to tune my carburateur, which is what's got me thinking about building an EFI system for this thing :)
[12:43:34] <Lucifer_arma> ah, that's correct.  The simulators that are out there are proprietary and owned by the engine manufacturers
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[17:29:24] <Lucifer_arma> ]math calc 0.03*1500
[17:29:25] <ljrbot> Lucifer_arma: 45
[17:29:38] <Lucifer_arma> $45 for a 1500 word article?  Content mill.  :(
[21:20:05] <Lucifer_arma> ]math calc 11*60
[21:20:05] <ljrbot> Lucifer_arma: 660
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Log from 2019-10-28:
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Log from 2019-10-29:
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[17:04:06] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: are there enough macos players that if we can build a 64-bit build, they can test it?
[17:04:33] <Lucifer_arma> I ask because I just did a quick googling and it looks like we could run high sierra in a virtual machine to build arma
[17:05:27] <Lucifer_arma> I have all intel machines, these days, for some reason, which matters, apparently
[17:09:36] <Z-Man> There is at least one, they filed a defect on Launchpad.
[17:09:38] <Lucifer_arma> ah, nvm, it would violate the EULA for macos
[17:09:48] <Lucifer_arma> I saw that, that was why I was asking :)
[17:10:05] <Armanelgtron> I know a couple macos players, syre and headhunter
[17:10:06] <Z-Man> I tried running High Sierra a while back. Yes, it works, technically.
[17:10:22] <Z-Man> There's the EULA issue.
[17:10:53] <Z-Man> And then, to be honest, I don't get along with MacOS at all.
[17:10:57] <Lucifer_arma> other than the eula issue, it only has to work well enough to build the game, and do a quick sanity check of the build (start it up and look at the splash screen)
[17:11:31] <Z-Man> I don't even know wheter the build system we have still works on modern XCode.
[17:11:42] <Z-Man> Oh, wait, I do know. I tried. It doesn't.
[17:11:47] <Lucifer_arma> well, I'll put it on my growing todo list, then
[17:12:14] * Lucifer_arma wonders what it would take to cross-compile for macos from linux
[17:13:16] <Z-Man> Bah. By now, the game is low-tech enough that Mac users can run it in a virtual machine that runs Linux :)
[17:13:38] <Armanelgtron> or, run WINE under MacOS and run the Windows versions
[17:13:40] <Lucifer_arma> maybe we should consider packaging it that way for mac users then
[17:14:50] <Z-Man> WINE should work, too. That's how I used to quickly test cross compiled builds.
[17:15:38] <Lucifer_arma> speaking of wine, and in a completely different context, have you ever nabbed a windows app and tried to build a native linux version linking to wine?
[17:15:57] <Lucifer_arma> I'm curious about trying that with one of the xbox360 emulators that're out there
[17:16:48] <Lucifer_arma>  because it would be silly to run windows in a vm just so I can run an xbox360 emulator
[17:17:05] <Z-Man> No. I thought that path was intended for Windows developers who want to do a quick and dirty linux port?
[17:17:35] <Lucifer_arma> well, more of a "you can develop for linux while using all the same stupid windows libraries you like!" path
[17:18:30] <Lucifer_arma> I'm working on using dolphin-emu to replace the wii, and in my usual overreach, am also wanting to knock out the xbox
[17:19:11] <Lucifer_arma> but the xbox emulator in question uses d3d and/or something else that is windows-only for display
[17:20:24] <Lucifer_arma> also, the emulator in questions supposedly runs in wine just fine
[17:20:32] <Z-Man> I'm avoiding doing stuff like that. It always turns out that I spent weeks until I have things setup all right, then I play an hour or two and get bored of it.
[17:20:58] <Z-Man> I'd just run it in WINE then without further tinkering. Unless it's super performance critical.
[17:21:26] <Z-Man> https://launchpad.net/~flosoft/+archive/ubuntu/cross-apple cross compiling to MacOS seems possible.
[17:21:40] <Lucifer_arma> well, if it's super-performance critical, I could just throw more hardware at it
[17:22:09] <Lucifer_arma> the xbox360 ought to be old enough now that emulating it should be reasonable, given a solid enough build
[17:22:44] <Lucifer_arma> and now I remember what's stopping me, heh.  I don't have a dongle for the xbox360 wireless controllers, because the stupid manufacturer had to use their own special protocol
[17:23:18] <Z-Man> You do have to emulate a powerPC core, though.
[17:23:35] <Z-Man> or were it three? I think it was three.
[17:24:24] <Lucifer_arma> I don't remember how many cores it has, but it's definitelly ppc
[17:25:58] <Lucifer_arma> but, one thing at a time.  Right now, the wii emulator is the priority.  :)
[17:26:11] <Lucifer_arma> from there, the mame setup I used to have, but using wii controllers for the gamepads
[17:26:49] <Lucifer_arma> in fact, if I had gotten interested in the raspberry pi before trying the wii emulator, I might be doing something completely different
[17:28:23] <Z-Man> A Raspii is cool, but it only has the power to go up to the N64/Playstation 1 or thereabouts.
[17:28:48] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but it would also eliminate a complete computer sitting under my tv
[17:29:12] <Lucifer_arma> and come in a box so small that I could velcro it to the back of the tv itself :)
[17:29:33] <Lucifer_arma> but now that I've declared my media pc has to emulate the wii, that rules out the raspberry for it
[17:29:34] <Z-Man> True. I stuck mine in a case that fits quite neatly there, but it's still a brick.
[17:29:48] <Z-Man> (Mine = my living room TV PC)
[17:30:21] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I've got a so-called mini-atx in there, running a decent intel all-in-one mobo
[17:30:59] <Lucifer_arma> it's got surround sound, so the primary motivation to moving the wii and xbox to the pc, somehow, is giving them surround sound
[17:31:11] <Lucifer_arma> secondary motivation is freeng up the space they both take up
[17:31:41] <Lucifer_arma> I looked into mini-itx replacements, and it's possible, but tricky
[17:33:51] <Z-Man> The smaller the boards go, the less extensible they get.
[17:34:39] <Z-Man> My case is a regular ATX (though on the very small side), the board also mini-something Intel All In One with passive CPU cooling.
[17:35:32] <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if we got the same board, heh.  And yeah, the lack of extensibility is a big problem
[17:35:44] <Lucifer_arma> the mini-itx boards I found will have like one pcie slot
[17:35:49] <Z-Man> It has a slot for a GPU and I think three other PCI-E cards (lost count because I thought too much about double width cards)
[17:36:48] <Z-Man> Could be, heh. Let me check the box
[17:37:05] <Z-Man> An ASRock Super Alloy J3455M
[17:37:59] <Lucifer_arma> close, actually
[17:37:59] <Z-Man> Ah, just two non-GPU PCI-E slots
[17:38:04] <Lucifer_arma> mine's an asrock j-something
[17:39:22] <Z-Man> Micro-ATX, it says.
[17:40:18] <Lucifer_arma> ah, q1900M
[17:40:28] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Q1900M/
[17:40:55] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, micro atx is an atx mobo with just the four top screws, iirc
[17:41:34] <Lucifer_arma> actual micro atx cases aren't nearly as small as I want them to be
[17:41:39] <Z-Man> Going by the picture, mine is almost identical. It just has the two memory slots next to each other.
[17:41:44] <Lucifer_arma> I want something roughly the size of my xbox360
[17:42:42] <Z-Man> Yeah, I had the case before for the old full-ATX board and didn't want to get yet another new one.
[17:43:31] <Lucifer_arma> the two mobo's are pretty similar
[17:44:47] <Lucifer_arma> you've got faster ram, and potentially faster CPU
[17:45:08] <Lucifer_arma> the thing I really need, though, is for the audio outputs to include the rear speakers
[17:45:19] <Lucifer_arma> without that, I have to give up one pci slot for a sound card
[17:46:16] <Lucifer_arma> but the smallest mini-atx cases I've found just aren't that small :(
[17:46:53] <Lucifer_arma> I suppose I could use my recently-acquired-but-still-growing fiber-reinforced polymer skills to build my own case
[17:48:17] <Z-Man> Bah. Just throw everything together, put it into an aquarium, fill it with clean mineral oil. Done!
[17:49:04] <Z-Man> I think that at work, we have these machines, they're quite small:
[17:49:04] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, then put a heating element under it and heat it up to about 250 degrees F and you can build whatever kind of mobo you want!
[17:49:05] <Z-Man> https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/desktops-all-in-one-pcs/new-precision-3431-desktop-workstation/spd/precision-3431-workstation
[17:50:06] <Z-Man> The annoying thing about them is that the cases can't hold any 3.5'' hard drive.
[17:50:32] <Z-Man> We do have 2TB SSDs, though, so not much complaining.
[17:51:38] <Lucifer_arma> also, the case isn't that much smaller than the one I'm already using
[17:51:40] <Lucifer_arma> it's like a foot tall!
[17:53:45] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ZPWOA6I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
[17:53:49] <Lucifer_arma> that's what I'm using right now
[17:54:45] <Lucifer_arma> your dell is significantly smaller width
[17:55:11] <Lucifer_arma> that's something.  (Ignoring Dell being almost as predatory as microsoft, heh)
[17:56:09] <Z-Man> Them selling the things in one piece is a significant andvantage; that way, they can cram in all the stuff relatively neatly, something you can never really do if you build your own from parts.
[17:56:12] <Lucifer_arma> well, I think if I want to insist on running dolphin-emu, I'm a have to commit to mini-itx, because that's where the really small stuff is that's not raspii
[17:56:40] <Lucifer_arma> that's true, but my experience with dell is that upgrading is difficult in many cases
[17:57:06] <Lucifer_arma> but their cases are also really nice, built solidly for service technicians.  My wife's old dell can be opened up completely without tools
[17:57:14] <Z-Man> There's also the NUC line. You only get the CPU integrated GPU then, of course.
[17:57:16] <Lucifer_arma> you can swap out hard drives easily, and installing them into the case is no tools
[17:57:45] <Lucifer_arma> and, if I buy Dell, I'd be supporting an Austin business, since their headquarters are here :)
[17:57:50] <Z-Man> Yeah, even the two laptops I had were pretty well repairable.
[17:58:22] <Lucifer_arma> but Dell knows their target market is IT professionals, and ease of service is a big deal when you work on computers for a living
[17:59:23] <Lucifer_arma> mini-itx cases manage to get a lot of space by pushing the PSU outside of the case, like a laptop
[17:59:44] <Z-Man> Cheaters.
[18:00:03] <Lucifer_arma> heh
[18:00:09] <Lucifer_arma> but that's exactly what the wii and xbox do!
[18:01:04] <Z-Man> Ugh, thanks for reminding me about that XBox thing.
[18:01:43] <Lucifer_arma> what I really want is a mini-atx/itx case attached to the back of a decent-sized tv
[18:01:50] <Z-Man> The Raspii does the same, of course. Though if it is a media center PC, you may get away with having it powered by your TV's USB out.
[18:02:41] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but the raspii does it to make integrating it with other components easier
[18:03:11] <Lucifer_arma> I found a case that holds a raspii and a 7 inch touch screen that, with minimal work, you can integrate the PSUs for the screen and the mobo
[18:03:39] <Lucifer_arma> so, it's slightly different than just trying to recover space in the case
[18:04:33] <Z-Man> Also, then it's one board and different power supplies for the markets with different wall plugs.
[18:05:11] <Z-Man> Not X different boards with weird huge sockets that easily break off.
[18:05:24] <Lucifer_arma> true.  I forgot the point of the raspii was to make inexpensive computers available worldwide :)
[18:06:41] <Z-Man> In the UK. Worldwide is just a side effect.
[18:07:35] <Z-Man> Anyway, bedtime once again. Night!
[18:14:18] <Lucifer_arma> 'night
[19:30:33] <Armanelgtron> hey are you planning to build 0.4 or 0.2 or both on macos?
[19:30:40] <Armanelgtron> as 64-bit
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Log from 2019-10-30:
[00:32:20] <Lucifer_arma> ]math calc 50/12
[00:32:20] <ljrbot> Lucifer_arma: 4.16666666667
[00:32:28] <Lucifer_arma> ]math calc 50/12 * 9
[00:32:28] <ljrbot> Lucifer_arma: 37.5
[00:32:44] <Lucifer_arma> ]math calc 50/12 * 9 * 1.5
[00:32:44] <ljrbot> Lucifer_arma: 56.25
[02:09:54] <Z-Man> Armanelgtron I'm not planning on building anything for Mac. We don't even have a good build process for Windows and Linux right now.
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[14:28:04] <Z-Man> Huh. https://github.com/tpoechtrager/osxcross
[14:28:10] <Z-Man> That might just work for us.
[17:39:40] <Z-Man> It's on AUR, so it was a one click install for me. Including the SDK. Neat.
[17:40:19] <Z-Man> Of course, we'd have to compile all the libraries we use. Boost is going to be fun.
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Log from 2019-10-31:
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