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[2023-09-01 01:37:44] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-09-01 08:09:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @zman_0 Lucifer_arma take a look at this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/742789790872764446/1146937804429983906/2023-08-31T18-26-52.mp4
[2023-09-01 08:09:40] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @zman_0 Lucifer_arma take a look at this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/742789790872764446/1146937804429983906/2023-08-31T18-26-52.mp4
[2023-09-01 08:09:40] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| This is exactly the prolem I'm talking about when I suggest smudging. In this instance, the server appears to be ignoring Nelg's turns because they don't make sense to the server - hence the phantom tail. Smudging would make this environment a little more permissive, forcing the server to adjust what walls it knows about to better fit what the client understands.
[2023-09-01 08:09:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| This is exactly the prolem I'm talking about when I suggest smudging. In this instance, the server appears to be ignoring Nelg's turns because they don't make sense to the server - hence the phantom tail. Smudging would make this environment a little more permissive, forcing the server to adjust what walls it knows about to better fit what the client understands.
[2023-09-01 08:09:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| However, it's equally true that firehosing would help here. What remains to be seen is just *how much* it will do so
[2023-09-01 08:09:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| However, it's equally true that firehosing would help here. What remains to be seen is just *how much* it will do so
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[2023-09-01 12:49:14] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:staybased_| it's not a bug it's a feature
[2023-09-01 12:49:15] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:staybased_| it's not a bug it's a feature
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[2023-09-01 23:02:12] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: That looks like basic packet loss. I couldn't see the ping and didn't zoom in to look more closely, but if there's also a high ping, then that's what you're going to see
[2023-09-01 23:02:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: That looks like basic packet loss. I couldn't see the ping and didn't zoom in to look more closely, but if there's also a high ping, then that's what you're going to see
[2023-09-01 23:02:46] <Lucifer_arma> It looks like the other cycles were being synced fine, because there were no artifacts there, so likely it's nelg's upstream that's the issue
[2023-09-01 23:02:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| It looks like the other cycles were being synced fine, because there were no artifacts there, so likely it's nelg's upstream that's the issue
[2023-09-01 23:03:15] <Lucifer_arma> is there a debug recording, by any chance? I'd be curious what the server recorded vs what the client recorded
[2023-09-01 23:03:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| is there a debug recording, by any chance? I'd be curious what the server recorded vs what the client recorded
[2023-09-01 23:04:02] <Lucifer_arma> first thing I'd check: did the server get every move? second: what was the delay?
[2023-09-01 23:04:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| first thing I'd check: did the server get every move? second: what was the delay?
[2023-09-01 23:04:57] <Lucifer_arma> overall, that's a really tough situation to correct for, because if the client's outgoing messages are taking a long time to get to the server, there's no amount of looking ahead that can help recover from it.
[2023-09-01 23:04:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| overall, that's a really tough situation to correct for, because if the client's outgoing messages are taking a long time to get to the server, there's no amount of looking ahead that can help recover from it.
[2023-09-01 23:06:12] <Lucifer_arma> so looking at timestamps, and keeping in mind that client timestamps aren't trustworthy, if we send both the wall in front of nelg in these situations and the timestamp for their creation, the server can look at its own grid and compare
[2023-09-01 23:06:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so looking at timestamps, and keeping in mind that client timestamps aren't trustworthy, if we send both the wall in front of nelg in these situations and the timestamp for their creation, the server can look at its own grid and compare
[2023-09-01 23:07:11] <Lucifer_arma> so, if the client says "I was 4 meters from the wall when I turned left, the wall was created at <this timestamp>", and the server receives the turn after the cycle has driven right past the wall, then the server can understand the player was trying to avoid the wall
[2023-09-01 23:07:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, if the client says "I was 4 meters from the wall when I turned left, the wall was created at <this timestamp>", and the server receives the turn after the cycle has driven right past the wall, then the server can understand the player was trying to avoid the wall
[2023-09-01 23:07:59] <Lucifer_arma> since the server creates game objects, the timestamp sent for the wall creation should match the server's timestamp, except in the (frequent) case of walls the client created itself that the server maybe hasn't created yet
[2023-09-01 23:08:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| since the server creates game objects, the timestamp sent for the wall creation should match the server's timestamp, except in the (frequent) case of walls the client created itself that the server maybe hasn't created yet
[2023-09-01 23:09:04] <Lucifer_arma> an argument could be made here that the client's relative timestamps is reliable and the walls can go ahead and be created in the same formation the client made them, but it would still be trivial to hack the client to send interesting wall formations to the server
[2023-09-01 23:09:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| an argument could be made here that the client's relative timestamps is reliable and the walls can go ahead and be created in the same formation the client made them, but it would still be trivial to hack the client to send interesting wall formations to the server
[2023-09-01 23:09:58] <Lucifer_arma> naturally, the balance here is "reliable network" vs "stopping cheaters", and my inclination is to lean towards what gives the most reliable simulation first, network second, and let moderators and vote polls handle the cheaters
[2023-09-01 23:09:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| naturally, the balance here is "reliable network" vs "stopping cheaters", and my inclination is to lean towards what gives the most reliable simulation first, network second, and let moderators and vote polls handle the cheaters
[2023-09-01 23:11:36] <Lucifer_arma> the biggest issue for the server is deciding what to do with the client's moves after it's determined the player did indeed see the wall with enough time to react. The whole point of rubber is to make it so the server doesn't have to make this decision, instead the time it takes for a collision to occur is artificially stretched to allow for network latency
[2023-09-01 23:11:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the biggest issue for the server is deciding what to do with the client's moves after it's determined the player did indeed see the wall with enough time to react. The whole point of rubber is to make it so the server doesn't have to make this decision, instead the time it takes for a collision to occur is artificially stretched to allow for network latency
[2023-09-01 23:12:15] <Lucifer_arma> so what does the server do if it can determine for certain that the player was trying to avoid the wall? What about the player right next to them that was reacting to the player *not* turning because the server didn't know they were turning?
[2023-09-01 23:12:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so what does the server do if it can determine for certain that the player was trying to avoid the wall? What about the player right next to them that was reacting to the player *not* turning because the server didn't know they were turning?
[2023-09-01 23:12:42] <Lucifer_arma> I don't see a situation where the server should cancel a player's move, but if the player's move never reaches the server, then the network has canceled it, effectively
[2023-09-01 23:12:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't see a situation where the server should cancel a player's move, but if the player's move never reaches the server, then the network has canceled it, effectively
[2023-09-01 23:13:53] <Lucifer_arma> so, at one point in the recording, you can see that the server is receiving the moves, and responding accordingly, but the delay is visible. That's when the wall sliding to the right happens. If you look closely, you can see that the moves are correct relative to each other, the only thing the server did was slide them to the right a few squares
[2023-09-01 23:13:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, at one point in the recording, you can see that the server is receiving the moves, and responding accordingly, but the delay is visible. That's when the wall sliding to the right happens. If you look closely, you can see that the moves are correct relative to each other, the only thing the server did was slide them to the right a few squares
[2023-09-01 23:14:37] <Lucifer_arma> even my proposed "what's in front of the cycle" routine would have that effect, I imagine
[2023-09-01 23:14:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| even my proposed "what's in front of the cycle" routine would have that effect, I imagine
[2023-09-01 23:16:35] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: how does arma determine when to re-send messages? Would it be sensible to have a different interval to re-send player commands vs. other messages?
[2023-09-01 23:16:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: how does arma determine when to re-send messages? Would it be sensible to have a different interval to re-send player commands vs. other messages?
[2023-09-01 23:17:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, last time we went into detail here, you told me that there wasn't a "state sync" message ever. Would it be sensible to make such a message and send it, say, every 100 milliseconds? That would be a variation on @delinquent's firehose idea
[2023-09-01 23:17:48] <Lucifer_arma> also, last time we went into detail here, you told me that there wasn't a "state sync" message ever. Would it be sensible to make such a message and send it, say, every 100 milliseconds? That would be a variation on @delinquent's firehose idea
[2023-09-01 23:18:26] <Lucifer_arma> ok, back to my acklist problems. I should write a country song about my acklist issues
[2023-09-01 23:18:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, back to my acklist problems. I should write a country song about my acklist issues
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[2023-09-02 03:01:54] <Lucifer_arma> cancel the country song, my acklist finally works :)
[2023-09-02 03:01:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| cancel the country song, my acklist finally works :)
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[2023-09-02 03:52:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Honestly, the more you add features to try and combat problems, the more you... well, add features. Rubber very quickly became a gameplay feature as opposed to a latency backstop.
[2023-09-02 03:52:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Honestly, the more you add features to try and combat problems, the more you... well, add features. Rubber very quickly became a gameplay feature as opposed to a latency backstop.
[2023-09-02 03:52:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| An effective solution would be dynamic interference. Assuming that the server keeps note of packets as they arrive, it is theoretically trivial to compare what the client knows against what the server knows. If there's a missing packet or three, then it could be acceptable to rewrite what the server knows with the client's understanding. The risk here is that someone could write <clipped message>
[2023-09-02 03:52:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| An effective solution would be dynamic interference. Assuming that the server keeps note of packets as they arrive, it is theoretically trivial to compare what the client knows against what the server knows. If there's a missing packet or three, then it could be acceptable to rewrite what the server knows with the client's understanding. The risk here is that someone could write <clipped message>
[2023-09-02 03:52:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| an extension to tron that artificially induces packet loss when rubber hits an arbitray limit - and you can get around this by imposing an limit on how many corrections can be performed in a row - sort of like how we deal with spam within a certain space of time.
[2023-09-02 03:52:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| an extension to tron that artificially induces packet loss when rubber hits an arbitray limit - and you can get around this by imposing an limit on how many corrections can be performed in a row - sort of like how we deal with spam within a certain space of time.
[2023-09-02 03:52:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Still think firehosing is a first step though. The landscape of the internet has changed a great deal, we're now competing with streaming, remote desktop, peer to peer, and a hundred thousand other online games on top of the vastly expanded scale of internet traffic. Instead of it being 2004 and people only really being online in a transitory sense, everyone is now online all the <clipped message>
[2023-09-02 03:52:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Still think firehosing is a first step though. The landscape of the internet has changed a great deal, we're now competing with streaming, remote desktop, peer to peer, and a hundred thousand other online games on top of the vastly expanded scale of internet traffic. Instead of it being 2004 and people only really being online in a transitory sense, everyone is now online all the <clipped message>
[2023-09-02 03:52:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| time. Phones call for status updates in the background, laptops are on 24/7, Microsoft is abusing the peer to peer framework to push updates constantly, and there are a hundred times as many computers connected to the web at large. These are all part of the reason why smudging was so widely adopted in the first place, and why the existing net code is no longer really good enough.
[2023-09-02 03:52:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| time. Phones call for status updates in the background, laptops are on 24/7, Microsoft is abusing the peer to peer framework to push updates constantly, and there are a hundred times as many computers connected to the web at large. These are all part of the reason why smudging was so widely adopted in the first place, and why the existing net code is no longer really good enough.
[2023-09-02 03:53:58] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| also yes, that routing of Nelg's is awful. That's pretty common too, unfortunately. Olive, Koala, Noodles, Tat, Cadi and even myself have had issues with routing problems. Infrastructure falls over a lot mroe these days, and more than a handful of ISPs don't bother fixing issues until they actually become outages.
[2023-09-02 03:53:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| also yes, that routing of Nelg's is awful. That's pretty common too, unfortunately. Olive, Koala, Noodles, Tat, Cadi and even myself have had issues with routing problems. Infrastructure falls over a lot mroe these days, and more than a handful of ISPs don't bother fixing issues until they actually become outages.
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[2023-09-02 16:18:53] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:jimlun| @stereo_system whered u go?
[2023-09-02 16:18:53] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:jimlun| @stereo_system whered u go?
[2023-09-02 16:39:43] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| Rare titan sighting
[2023-09-02 16:39:43] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| Rare titan sighting
[2023-09-02 16:40:00] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:jimlun| o\
[2023-09-02 16:40:01] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:jimlun| o\
[2023-09-02 16:40:03] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:jimlun| o/*
[2023-09-02 16:40:03] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:jimlun| o/*
[2023-09-02 16:42:21] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| o/
[2023-09-02 16:42:22] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| o/
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[2023-09-02 21:40:48] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
[2023-09-02 22:37:41] <Lucifer_arma> Ah, but the whole point of the two generals problem is that the server *can't* know what the client knows unless the client tells it, *and* the server receives it. Even then, the server only knows that the client knew <this> at the time the server received it, since the client's timestamp is unreliable
[2023-09-02 22:37:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Ah, but the whole point of the two generals problem is that the server *can't* know what the client knows unless the client tells it, *and* the server receives it. Even then, the server only knows that the client knew <this> at the time the server received it, since the client's timestamp is unreliable
[2023-09-02 22:38:25] <Lucifer_arma> there's no amount of changing network infrastructure that makes the two generals problem go away. It's always there, and it's the ultimate cause of all lag. :)
[2023-09-02 22:38:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there's no amount of changing network infrastructure that makes the two generals problem go away. It's always there, and it's the ultimate cause of all lag. :)
[2023-09-02 22:39:03] <Lucifer_arma> I agree with firehosing, and setting the priority to match the streaming services (or higher, if we can, whtever the highest we can set ourselves, we should)
[2023-09-02 22:39:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I agree with firehosing, and setting the priority to match the streaming services (or higher, if we can, whtever the highest we can set ourselves, we should)
[2023-09-02 22:39:38] <Lucifer_arma> Everything else we can do is compensating, figuring out how to make the best guess possible as to what the player's intentions are while being fair to all connected players
[2023-09-02 22:39:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Everything else we can do is compensating, figuring out how to make the best guess possible as to what the player's intentions are while being fair to all connected players
[2023-09-02 22:40:39] <Lucifer_arma> of course, we get other options if we open up to the idea of players' PCs connecting to one another, but that *also* opens up serious privacy issues
[2023-09-02 22:40:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| of course, we get other options if we open up to the idea of players' PCs connecting to one another, but that *also* opens up serious privacy issues
[2023-09-02 22:41:27] <Lucifer_arma> if we had a shared object system in place, we could have the same game grid simulated on multiple computers, and then we could, say, have a server on the east coast, one on the west, one in the UK, and one in Germany, all hosting the exact same game
[2023-09-02 22:41:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if we had a shared object system in place, we could have the same game grid simulated on multiple computers, and then we could, say, have a server on the east coast, one on the west, one in the UK, and one in Germany, all hosting the exact same game
[2023-09-02 22:42:07] <Lucifer_arma> with each of these computers under control of the same person, we can declare their timestamps trustworthy and using the magic of averages, make a very reliable simulation at the lowest possible ping for all players
[2023-09-02 22:42:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| with each of these computers under control of the same person, we can declare their timestamps trustworthy and using the magic of averages, make a very reliable simulation at the lowest possible ping for all players
[2023-09-02 22:43:25] <Lucifer_arma> ultimately, the problems come down to two very specific problems: for 50-250ms or so, the server doesn't actually know what the player is doing, and neither the server nor the client can know that the message they sent has been received.
[2023-09-02 22:43:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ultimately, the problems come down to two very specific problems: for 50-250ms or so, the server doesn't actually know what the player is doing, and neither the server nor the client can know that the message they sent has been received.
[2023-09-02 22:44:30] <Lucifer_arma> firehosing addresses the second part, and since most stable connections will have less than 50% packet loss (yes, you can have that much packet loss and still have a stable connection), sending every movement command 4-8 times should be quite a significant improvement, with a caveat I'll get into in a moment
[2023-09-02 22:44:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| firehosing addresses the second part, and since most stable connections will have less than 50% packet loss (yes, you can have that much packet loss and still have a stable connection), sending every movement command 4-8 times should be quite a significant improvement, with a caveat I'll get into in a moment
[2023-09-02 22:45:00] <Lucifer_arma> setting socket priority, or whatever it's called, addresses the first part by simply making the period of time where the server doesn't know anything shorter
[2023-09-02 22:45:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| setting socket priority, or whatever it's called, addresses the first part by simply making the period of time where the server doesn't know anything shorter
[2023-09-02 22:45:46] <Lucifer_arma> the caveat with firehosing has to do with the outgoing UDP buffers. I haven't actually dug deep enough to see how much control we have over those, but I am deep enough to know that firehosing has the potential of over-filling those buffers
[2023-09-02 22:45:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the caveat with firehosing has to do with the outgoing UDP buffers. I haven't actually dug deep enough to see how much control we have over those, but I am deep enough to know that firehosing has the potential of over-filling those buffers
[2023-09-02 22:46:18] <Lucifer_arma> now, there's no security issue here, it's just another way that packets can be lost. Say there's room in the buffer for 2 messages, and you try to put 8 in it, then the first two will go in and the other 6 will be silently discarded
[2023-09-02 22:46:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now, there's no security issue here, it's just another way that packets can be lost. Say there's room in the buffer for 2 messages, and you try to put 8 in it, then the first two will go in and the other 6 will be silently discarded
[2023-09-02 22:46:26] <Lucifer_arma> there isn't even a way for us to know that the discard happened
[2023-09-02 22:46:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there isn't even a way for us to know that the discard happened
[2023-09-02 22:48:20] <Lucifer_arma> I don't know more than that about these buffers. I *think* that ultimately there's only one outgoing buffer physically located in the ethernet chipset, and the kernel could be multiplexing all of its internal outgoing buffers into that one
[2023-09-02 22:48:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't know more than that about these buffers. I *think* that ultimately there's only one outgoing buffer physically located in the ethernet chipset, and the kernel could be multiplexing all of its internal outgoing buffers into that one
[2023-09-02 22:49:17] <Lucifer_arma> I know that you can set your UDP buffersize at the application level, but it's considered unreliable, meaning that a socket implementation isn't required to honor that setting, and the setting could fail anyway.
[2023-09-02 22:49:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I know that you can set your UDP buffersize at the application level, but it's considered unreliable, meaning that a socket implementation isn't required to honor that setting, and the setting could fail anyway.
[2023-09-02 22:49:40] <Lucifer_arma> You can detect the failure, but you're still ultimately limited to whatever size you can get
[2023-09-02 22:49:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| You can detect the failure, but you're still ultimately limited to whatever size you can get
[2023-09-02 22:50:14] <Lucifer_arma> but once you call sendto(), you have no further control over what happens with the message. It either sends or it doesn't, and even if sent, it either arrives at the destination, or it doesn't.
[2023-09-02 22:50:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but once you call sendto(), you have no further control over what happens with the message. It either sends or it doesn't, and even if sent, it either arrives at the destination, or it doesn't.
[2023-09-02 22:50:54] <Lucifer_arma> so we back up a bit and start asking "How can the server know what it doesn't know?"
[2023-09-02 22:50:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so we back up a bit and start asking "How can the server know what it doesn't know?"
[2023-09-02 22:51:40] <Lucifer_arma> there's some room to tell it retroactively. For example, it's obvious that when the players are all distanced from each other, the server can just place everything where it belongs according to when the messages arrived
[2023-09-02 22:51:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there's some room to tell it retroactively. For example, it's obvious that when the players are all distanced from each other, the server can just place everything where it belongs according to when the messages arrived
[2023-09-02 22:52:40] <Lucifer_arma> the server can make a reasonable measure of packet loss, and when it sees the client's timestamp is significantly different than the servers, if there is also a lot of packet loss, it could consider placing the packet earlier in time, rewind the simulation, and so forth
[2023-09-02 22:52:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the server can make a reasonable measure of packet loss, and when it sees the client's timestamp is significantly different than the servers, if there is also a lot of packet loss, it could consider placing the packet earlier in time, rewind the simulation, and so forth
[2023-09-02 22:54:12] <Lucifer_arma> and as long as players are far enough away from each other, we could get to a place where there's no perceived lag, for the most part (extreme cases will always exist, and the video of nelg shows an extreme case, one that has existed in this game for its entire life)
[2023-09-02 22:54:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and as long as players are far enough away from each other, we could get to a place where there's no perceived lag, for the most part (extreme cases will always exist, and the video of nelg shows an extreme case, one that has existed in this game for its entire life)
[2023-09-02 22:54:57] <Lucifer_arma> there are two things players can do directly that'll improve their lag situation: don't move so much. Double-binding and all the various iterations of that generate a shitload of outgoing packets that are subject to the network
[2023-09-02 22:54:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there are two things players can do directly that'll improve their lag situation: don't move so much. Double-binding and all the various iterations of that generate a shitload of outgoing packets that are subject to the network
[2023-09-02 22:55:32] <Lucifer_arma> When you have a player who hits 10 keys within 10ms and then you firehose that, you could easily fill up your outgoing UDP buffers.
[2023-09-02 22:55:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| When you have a player who hits 10 keys within 10ms and then you firehose that, you could easily fill up your outgoing UDP buffers.
[2023-09-02 22:56:25] <Lucifer_arma> you can play competitively and win well and often without the gimmicky multi-binding
[2023-09-02 22:56:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you can play competitively and win well and often without the gimmicky multi-binding
[2023-09-02 22:57:25] <Lucifer_arma> the second thing players can do is shutdown other apps that use the network. This isn't always possible on a shared connection, but it should be common sense at this point that if you've got two people streaming movies in different rooms, then of course your gaming experience isn't going to be as good as if you had it all to yourself
[2023-09-02 22:57:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the second thing players can do is shutdown other apps that use the network. This isn't always possible on a shared connection, but it should be common sense at this point that if you've got two people streaming movies in different rooms, then of course your gaming experience isn't going to be as good as if you had it all to yourself
[2023-09-02 22:58:12] <Lucifer_arma> internet weather is also a thing. If you're on a cable connection, expect your gaming experience to be worse in the evening when everybody in your neighborhood is using the internet at the same time
[2023-09-02 22:58:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| internet weather is also a thing. If you're on a cable connection, expect your gaming experience to be worse in the evening when everybody in your neighborhood is using the internet at the same time
[2023-09-02 22:59:07] <Lucifer_arma> in that video, nelg was doing a lot of rapid turns in a row, and that's exactly the kind of situation that's going to cause lag in the first place
[2023-09-02 22:59:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| in that video, nelg was doing a lot of rapid turns in a row, and that's exactly the kind of situation that's going to cause lag in the first place
[2023-09-02 22:59:44] <Lucifer_arma> now, is it possible for us to combine movements like that so we're not sending so many messages for each movement? Maybe, but it takes time to collect of these moves, and that time is more lag
[2023-09-02 22:59:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now, is it possible for us to combine movements like that so we're not sending so many messages for each movement? Maybe, but it takes time to collect of these moves, and that time is more lag
[2023-09-02 23:00:22] <Lucifer_arma> also, you'd have to put a timestamp for each one, and then you have a server relying on client timestamps to place every movement on the grid
[2023-09-02 23:00:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, you'd have to put a timestamp for each one, and then you have a server relying on client timestamps to place every movement on the grid
[2023-09-02 23:02:07] <Lucifer_arma> I disagree that arma's network code isn't up to snuff on our "modern" internet. The fundamentals haven't changed. The reason you see commercial games outperforming arma is because the companies supporting them have the resources to deploy multiple redundant servers
[2023-09-02 23:02:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I disagree that arma's network code isn't up to snuff on our "modern" internet. The fundamentals haven't changed. The reason you see commercial games outperforming arma is because the companies supporting them have the resources to deploy multiple redundant servers
[2023-09-02 23:02:41] <Lucifer_arma> but lag is still a big problem there (or more correctly: players whining about lag is still a big problem there)
[2023-09-02 23:02:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but lag is still a big problem there (or more correctly: players whining about lag is still a big problem there)
[2023-09-02 23:04:22] <Lucifer_arma> if we had the resources of even a small gaming studio, I'd be pushing for distributed objects and using multiple redundant servers spread out geographically to provide a mirror/replication capability
[2023-09-02 23:04:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if we had the resources of even a small gaming studio, I'd be pushing for distributed objects and using multiple redundant servers spread out geographically to provide a mirror/replication capability
[2023-09-02 23:10:20] <Lucifer_arma> but seriously, if you're turning left, it's not necessary to turn left 8 times and right 7 times. Just turn left.
[2023-09-02 23:10:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but seriously, if you're turning left, it's not necessary to turn left 8 times and right 7 times. Just turn left.
[2023-09-02 23:14:42] <Lucifer_arma> It occurs to me that the blosc compression is good enough that we could keep a list of sent messages, and build a message containing the last 100ms worth of messages
[2023-09-02 23:14:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| It occurs to me that the blosc compression is good enough that we could keep a list of sent messages, and build a message containing the last 100ms worth of messages
[2023-09-02 23:14:49] <Lucifer_arma> Consider this:
[2023-09-02 23:14:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Consider this:
[2023-09-02 23:15:20] <Lucifer_arma> Right now, you're going to send messages numbered 1-5. Arma sends five different messages
[2023-09-02 23:15:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Right now, you're going to send messages numbered 1-5. Arma sends five different messages
[2023-09-02 23:15:29] <Lucifer_arma> In this suggestion, arma still sends five messages, however, they go like this:
[2023-09-02 23:15:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| In this suggestion, arma still sends five messages, however, they go like this:
[2023-09-02 23:15:53] <Lucifer_arma> First arma sends message one. Then it generates message two. Since message 1 is still in the buffer, it combines 1 and 2 into a single message and sends it.
[2023-09-02 23:15:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| First arma sends message one. Then it generates message two. Since message 1 is still in the buffer, it combines 1 and 2 into a single message and sends it.
[2023-09-02 23:16:12] <Lucifer_arma> Then it generates message 3. Messages 1 and 2 are both still in teh buffer, so it goes ahead and combines 1 and 2 with message 3.
[2023-09-02 23:16:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Then it generates message 3. Messages 1 and 2 are both still in teh buffer, so it goes ahead and combines 1 and 2 with message 3.
[2023-09-02 23:16:41] <Lucifer_arma> Then it generates message 4. In the meantime, message 1 left the buffer. So it combines 2, 3, and 4 and sends that. Same with 5.
[2023-09-02 23:16:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Then it generates message 4. In the meantime, message 1 left the buffer. So it combines 2, 3, and 4 and sends that. Same with 5.
[2023-09-02 23:17:27] <Lucifer_arma> This is a version of firehosing, obviously. So if the first attempt to send message 1 fails, it gets resent as part of message 2. If it succeeds, the server discards that portion of message 2.
[2023-09-02 23:17:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| This is a version of firehosing, obviously. So if the first attempt to send message 1 fails, it gets resent as part of message 2. If it succeeds, the server discards that portion of message 2.
[2023-09-02 23:18:27] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:niveK.POT| @northernscrub I actually just remembered to set the min rate max rate that you mentioned and I think it feels way better 👍
[2023-09-02 23:18:27] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:niveK.POT| @northernscrub I actually just remembered to set the min rate max rate that you mentioned and I think it feels way better 👍
[2023-09-02 23:19:00] <Lucifer_arma> Problem: When the server receives message 2, it has to rely on the timestamp for message 1 to place it, since it didn't receive message 1 by itself. The only thing it knows for certain is that message 1 was sent before message 2. It also has a window in which message one must have been generated.
[2023-09-02 23:19:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Problem: When the server receives message 2, it has to rely on the timestamp for message 1 to place it, since it didn't receive message 1 by itself. The only thing it knows for certain is that message 1 was sent before message 2. It also has a window in which message one must have been generated.
[2023-09-02 23:20:15] <Lucifer_arma> but that's still more information that it'll have, and the reason blosc matters here is because it's good enough at compressing messages that the subsequent larger messages will still be manageably small. A message that contains two previous messages won't be 3x the size of a standard message, it'll be more like 1.5-2.0x
[2023-09-02 23:20:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but that's still more information that it'll have, and the reason blosc matters here is because it's good enough at compressing messages that the subsequent larger messages will still be manageably small. A message that contains two previous messages won't be 3x the size of a standard message, it'll be more like 1.5-2.0x
[2023-09-02 23:23:14] <Lucifer_arma> finally, if you want to try firehosing and see how it does, you can do it like this:
[2023-09-02 23:23:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| finally, if you want to try firehosing and see how it does, you can do it like this:
[2023-09-02 23:23:40] <Lucifer_arma> find the sendto call in the client. I don't know exactly where it is, but a quick grep should tell you. Then go to the line right before it and add something like this:
[2023-09-02 23:23:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| find the sendto call in the client. I don't know exactly where it is, but a quick grep should tell you. Then go to the line right before it and add something like this:
[2023-09-02 23:23:53] <Lucifer_arma> for(int i=0; i<5; i++)
[2023-09-02 23:23:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| for(int i=0; i<5; i++)
[2023-09-02 23:24:51] <Lucifer_arma> the server already discards duplicates, I'm pretty sure, so this should be compatible with any public server. Be aware that it'll send 5x for every single message that gets sent!
[2023-09-02 23:24:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the server already discards duplicates, I'm pretty sure, so this should be compatible with any public server. Be aware that it'll send 5x for every single message that gets sent!
[2023-09-02 23:26:28] <Lucifer_arma> it's possible the client binds, though, in which case you're looking for "send", which could be harder to find with simple grep search
[2023-09-02 23:26:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's possible the client binds, though, in which case you're looking for "send", which could be harder to find with simple grep search
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[2023-09-03 02:45:08] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| In the clip Nelg starts turning a lot after he starts lagging, I'm assuming cause he's trying to find some way to get them to register / panicking lol. But in a competitive late game sumo, constant turning is pretty much necessary to stay alive. I think partly because rubber is weird and you can abuse it through mazes that take advantage of the sort of "roterbox" effect (hitting <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 02:45:09] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| In the clip Nelg starts turning a lot after he starts lagging, I'm assuming cause he's trying to find some way to get them to register / panicking lol. But in a competitive late game sumo, constant turning is pretty much necessary to stay alive. I think partly because rubber is weird and you can abuse it through mazes that take advantage of the sort of "roterbox" effect (hitting <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 02:45:09] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| inside corners seems to let you live at max rubber longer, even at high speeds) so you can eek out a crucial extra couple seconds in the zone and take the win
[2023-09-03 02:45:09] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| inside corners seems to let you live at max rubber longer, even at high speeds) so you can eek out a crucial extra couple seconds in the zone and take the win
[2023-09-03 06:42:51] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| So since I have a 2 bedroom apartment to myself now I’m slowly turning the big room into a gaming room/movie room. So far it’s looking pretty nice in my opinion I spent already 200 on just Govee RGBIC lights to sync with razer chroma I’ll send a video of the whole room later today. Some of my other plans are on getting rid of my current desk for a l shaped one and I plan o <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 06:42:51] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| So since I have a 2 bedroom apartment to myself now I’m slowly turning the big room into a gaming room/movie room. So far it’s looking pretty nice in my opinion I spent already 200 on just Govee RGBIC lights to sync with razer chroma I’ll send a video of the whole room later today. Some of my other plans are on getting rid of my current desk for a l shaped one and I plan o <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 06:42:52] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| n getting a ai sync back and back lights for my main monitor. To add immersive when gaming and watching movies I already have a backlight for my 58 inch tv but this would improve on that.
[2023-09-03 06:42:52] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| n getting a ai sync back and back lights for my main monitor. To add immersive when gaming and watching movies I already have a backlight for my 58 inch tv but this would improve on that.
[2023-09-03 06:42:53] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1147844149970743356/IMG_6192.jpg
[2023-09-03 06:42:53] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1147844149970743356/IMG_6192.jpg
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[2023-09-03 10:21:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| > buffers
[2023-09-03 10:21:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| > buffers
[2023-09-03 10:21:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Not huge. 200kb is a good place to start. I know in Python you can override this with `socket.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_SNDBUF, newSizeInBytes)`, substituting `RCVBUF` where necessary, but I don't know if the same is true in C++. I suspect the library in use with Armagetron is also somewhat outdated, soooo.
[2023-09-03 10:21:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Not huge. 200kb is a good place to start. I know in Python you can override this with `socket.setsockopt(socket.SOL_SOCKET, socket.SO_SNDBUF, newSizeInBytes)`, substituting `RCVBUF` where necessary, but I don't know if the same is true in C++. I suspect the library in use with Armagetron is also somewhat outdated, soooo.
[2023-09-03 10:21:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Anyway, you can poll the size of the buffer as-is in bash, with `cat /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_default` - mine sits at 212992, or 212kb and change. That might be enough to do four or six iterations of each packet? I don't know. Certainly the server will have to stick with sending one at a time, I can't imagine trying to keep twenty clients satisfied whilst firehosing and still main <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 10:21:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Anyway, you can poll the size of the buffer as-is in bash, with `cat /proc/sys/net/core/wmem_default` - mine sits at 212992, or 212kb and change. That might be enough to do four or six iterations of each packet? I don't know. Certainly the server will have to stick with sending one at a time, I can't imagine trying to keep twenty clients satisfied whilst firehosing and still main <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 10:21:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| tain game quality. That is, of course, assuming we *can't* change the buffer size, which isn't a given just yet. We almost certainly would need to do so on Windows, which defaults to a 64kb buffer size.
[2023-09-03 10:21:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| tain game quality. That is, of course, assuming we *can't* change the buffer size, which isn't a given just yet. We almost certainly would need to do so on Windows, which defaults to a 64kb buffer size.
[2023-09-03 10:22:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| However, I like your idea - keeping a scrolling sequence of packets in the buffer. I think I prefer that over just blasting information at the server - but I would also suggest creating a sub-packet of sorts, to get around the interpreting dupes problem. Wrap every instance of a turn up in a timestamp or a numbered sequence, and then let the server handle putting it all in order. <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 10:22:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| However, I like your idea - keeping a scrolling sequence of packets in the buffer. I think I prefer that over just blasting information at the server - but I would also suggest creating a sub-packet of sorts, to get around the interpreting dupes problem. Wrap every instance of a turn up in a timestamp or a numbered sequence, and then let the server handle putting it all in order. <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 10:22:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That adds a small amount of overhead, but it should be inconsequential with today's capabilities.
[2023-09-03 10:22:03] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That adds a small amount of overhead, but it should be inconsequential with today's capabilities.
[2023-09-03 10:22:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| In fact, you could even standardise its structure:
[2023-09-03 10:22:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| In fact, you could even standardise its structure:
[2023-09-03 10:22:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| <messagestart> <ident> <numericalsequence> <turn> <messagestop>
[2023-09-03 10:22:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| <messagestart> <ident> <numericalsequence> <turn> <messagestop>
[2023-09-03 10:22:24] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| In the meantime, @wwnelg since you're familiar with C++, perhaps you can try Lucifer's suggestion for for-loop firehosing implementation? That would at least tell us if basic firehosing would help or hinder, and whether or not we need to look at increasing the buffer size. I'd stick to three or four resends, though, any more than that is both unnecessary, and probably pushing the <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 10:22:24] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| In the meantime, @wwnelg since you're familiar with C++, perhaps you can try Lucifer's suggestion for for-loop firehosing implementation? That would at least tell us if basic firehosing would help or hinder, and whether or not we need to look at increasing the buffer size. I'd stick to three or four resends, though, any more than that is both unnecessary, and probably pushing the <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 10:22:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| existing buffer limit.
[2023-09-03 10:22:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| existing buffer limit.
[2023-09-03 17:01:25] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @dorianv No, I haven't tried my keyboards on another PC. I don't know anyone who both has a computer capable of running Armagetronad properly and would let me install it and try my keyboards out. I am pretty sure though that it's the keyboards fault (I could be wrong). I have three supposedly "high end" mechanical keyboards that should be good enough to play the game on but each <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 17:01:26] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @dorianv No, I haven't tried my keyboards on another PC. I don't know anyone who both has a computer capable of running Armagetronad properly and would let me install it and try my keyboards out. I am pretty sure though that it's the keyboards fault (I could be wrong). I have three supposedly "high end" mechanical keyboards that should be good enough to play the game on but each <clipped message>
[2023-09-03 17:01:26] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| has one (or more) things wrong with them that I can identify as being bad for single-binding, I need a keyboard with switches that are linear, have stiff enough springs, short travel and are correctly lubricated. None of my keyboards have all of these characteristics
[2023-09-03 17:01:26] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| has one (or more) things wrong with them that I can identify as being bad for single-binding, I need a keyboard with switches that are linear, have stiff enough springs, short travel and are correctly lubricated. None of my keyboards have all of these characteristics
[2023-09-03 17:06:06] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I'm not saying that I would be an amazing player with the right keyboard but I certainly would be an OK player, IMO.
[2023-09-03 17:06:06] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I'm not saying that I would be an amazing player with the right keyboard but I certainly would be an OK player, IMO.
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[2023-09-03 22:34:42] <Lucifer_arma> I was thinking of just keeping the uncompressed bytestream from the previous messages and appending them to the current uncompressed message, then compress it all
[2023-09-03 22:34:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was thinking of just keeping the uncompressed bytestream from the previous messages and appending them to the current uncompressed message, then compress it all
[2023-09-03 22:35:53] <Lucifer_arma> if each header also contains a message size field, then extracting them is easy. You'd have to look at the protobuf files to see what's in there. It's normal, afaik, with datagrams to not put a size in your own datagram header because UDP has that already
[2023-09-03 22:35:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if each header also contains a message size field, then extracting them is easy. You'd have to look at the protobuf files to see what's in there. It's normal, afaik, with datagrams to not put a size in your own datagram header because UDP has that already
[2023-09-03 22:37:15] <Lucifer_arma> I don't see a reason the server can't do the same thing, actually. I'd also like to see a sync message added, if it's not there already. Something where it would just be a list of tuples, (object id, location1, location2)
[2023-09-03 22:37:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't see a reason the server can't do the same thing, actually. I'd also like to see a sync message added, if it's not there already. Something where it would just be a list of tuples, (object id, location1, location2)
[2023-09-03 22:37:34] <Lucifer_arma> (I learned last night that "tuple" isn't strictly python, so now I'm going to use it in other contexts)
[2023-09-03 22:37:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (I learned last night that "tuple" isn't strictly python, so now I'm going to use it in other contexts)
[2023-09-03 22:37:40] <Lucifer_arma> about buffers
[2023-09-03 22:37:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| about buffers
[2023-09-03 22:38:17] <Lucifer_arma> Python just calls the underlying C function, passing into it whatever you give it. Windows sockets are based on berkeley sockets, but I don't know how much they may have drifted from them
[2023-09-03 22:38:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Python just calls the underlying C function, passing into it whatever you give it. Windows sockets are based on berkeley sockets, but I don't know how much they may have drifted from them
[2023-09-03 22:38:58] <Lucifer_arma> Linux uses berkeley sockets, and again, I don't know if they've drifted at all, or if they merge the newest berkeley socket implementation whenever it gets an update
[2023-09-03 22:38:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Linux uses berkeley sockets, and again, I don't know if they've drifted at all, or if they merge the newest berkeley socket implementation whenever it gets an update
[2023-09-03 22:39:53] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, that call you gave *does* work on my computer, Ubuntu 22.04LTS. I'd expect it to work on OS X and any of the beasties, and I'd hope it would work on Windows
[2023-09-03 22:39:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anyway, that call you gave *does* work on my computer, Ubuntu 22.04LTS. I'd expect it to work on OS X and any of the beasties, and I'd hope it would work on Windows
[2023-09-03 22:40:21] <Lucifer_arma> (I've been fooling with it specifically to create packet loss in my own project so I can work on re-sending datagrams and have reliable transmission)
[2023-09-03 22:40:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (I've been fooling with it specifically to create packet loss in my own project so I can work on re-sending datagrams and have reliable transmission)
[2023-09-03 22:41:19] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, back to the sync message (just got home from work, so my brain isn't working in a linear fashion right now)
[2023-09-03 22:41:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anyway, back to the sync message (just got home from work, so my brain isn't working in a linear fashion right now)
[2023-09-03 22:42:22] <Lucifer_arma> to generate it, you could just start at the cycle's coordinates and add n number of objects until the message is full, going closest to the cycle. In that case, you have to generate a separate sync message for each client.
[2023-09-03 22:42:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| to generate it, you could just start at the cycle's coordinates and add n number of objects until the message is full, going closest to the cycle. In that case, you have to generate a separate sync message for each client.
[2023-09-03 22:42:45] <Lucifer_arma> Alternately, you can generate one sync message that contains the whole grid and let it grow to arbitrary size (and hope it's not too big) and send it to all clients
[2023-09-03 22:42:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Alternately, you can generate one sync message that contains the whole grid and let it grow to arbitrary size (and hope it's not too big) and send it to all clients
[2023-09-03 22:43:53] <Lucifer_arma> sync messages should have their own, separate message ID so that clients can tell when they missed one. So if a client receives 10, 11, 13, and 14, then it knows it missed 12. If the messages are partial syncs, it can ask for 12 to be resent. If the messages aren't partial syncs, then when they arrive out of order, it knows to use the most recent one
[2023-09-03 22:43:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| sync messages should have their own, separate message ID so that clients can tell when they missed one. So if a client receives 10, 11, 13, and 14, then it knows it missed 12. If the messages are partial syncs, it can ask for 12 to be resent. If the messages aren't partial syncs, then when they arrive out of order, it knows to use the most recent one
[2023-09-03 22:44:44] <Lucifer_arma> I think sending one every 250ms would be reasonable, as long as generating them wasn't too big a hit on the simulation (which it's not, if it only generates one and sends it to all clients, good thing we don't have a fog of war implementation)
[2023-09-03 22:44:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think sending one every 250ms would be reasonable, as long as generating them wasn't too big a hit on the simulation (which it's not, if it only generates one and sends it to all clients, good thing we don't have a fog of war implementation)
[2023-09-03 22:45:56] <Lucifer_arma> I believe right now the client builds its own simulation based on all the individual packets, so in the case of a sync message, it could wind up with information that it hasn't yet received because the message that contains someone's turn hasn't arrived yet
[2023-09-03 22:45:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I believe right now the client builds its own simulation based on all the individual packets, so in the case of a sync message, it could wind up with information that it hasn't yet received because the message that contains someone's turn hasn't arrived yet
[2023-09-03 22:46:32] <Lucifer_arma> maybe I should take a look now that I've been doing a lot of socket programming myself. :) But first, the stockanalyst... (it's the highest priority for me right now)
[2023-09-03 22:46:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| maybe I should take a look now that I've been doing a lot of socket programming myself. :) But first, the stockanalyst... (it's the highest priority for me right now)
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[2023-09-04 01:24:42] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:Kows (.sly)| what the
[2023-09-04 01:24:42] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:Kows (.sly)| what the
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[2023-09-04 03:03:28] <Lucifer_arma> Postgres vs MySQL: With my cluster running MySQL, I was looking at having to buy some serious dedicated hardware just for the database so it could support two workers (raspberry pis running up to 8 total jobs)
[2023-09-04 03:03:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Postgres vs MySQL: With my cluster running MySQL, I was looking at having to buy some serious dedicated hardware just for the database so it could support two workers (raspberry pis running up to 8 total jobs)
[2023-09-04 03:03:42] <Lucifer_arma> with postgres, right now, I don't even need the cluster.
[2023-09-04 03:03:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| with postgres, right now, I don't even need the cluster.
[2023-09-04 03:04:56] <Lucifer_arma> actually, I take that back. I need to write more UI so I can find out how many jobs are actually being queued up.
[2023-09-04 03:04:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| actually, I take that back. I need to write more UI so I can find out how many jobs are actually being queued up.
[2023-09-04 03:05:14] <Lucifer_arma> but postgres is outperforming MySQL right now by several orders of magnitude :)
[2023-09-04 03:05:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but postgres is outperforming MySQL right now by several orders of magnitude :)
[2023-09-04 03:07:46] <Lucifer_arma> also, if you're using python's multiprocessing module, definitely don't use fork, use spawn. That's solved *so* many problems for me. I realize it's slower than fork, but at a certain point, the reliability is worth the price
[2023-09-04 03:07:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, if you're using python's multiprocessing module, definitely don't use fork, use spawn. That's solved *so* many problems for me. I realize it's slower than fork, but at a certain point, the reliability is worth the price
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[2023-09-04 06:08:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Postgres is awesome. Gotta remember htat it folds down, not up, which has caught me out a few times when writing in table names. Other than that I think it's largely SQL compliant. Apparently upper-case table names are actually against postgres' best practice anyway soooooo
[2023-09-04 06:08:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Postgres is awesome. Gotta remember htat it folds down, not up, which has caught me out a few times when writing in table names. Other than that I think it's largely SQL compliant. Apparently upper-case table names are actually against postgres' best practice anyway soooooo
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[2023-09-04 19:08:11] <Lucifer_arma> I always use lowercase tablenames anyway, and all the capital letters in other databases annoy me :)
[2023-09-04 19:08:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I always use lowercase tablenames anyway, and all the capital letters in other databases annoy me :)
[2023-09-04 19:09:03] <Lucifer_arma> the postgres database driver for python also provides a way to batch execute updates. MySQL only offers batch inserts.
[2023-09-04 19:09:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the postgres database driver for python also provides a way to batch execute updates. MySQL only offers batch inserts.
[2023-09-04 19:10:28] <Lucifer_arma> it's time to get the cluster back up at full strength, but I need to write a couple of jobs real quick to add to it, because I'm close...
[2023-09-04 19:10:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's time to get the cluster back up at full strength, but I need to write a couple of jobs real quick to add to it, because I'm close...
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[2023-09-05 07:17:10] <Lucifer_arma> heh, I've got my cluster running probably around half strength right now, and postgres is taking it like a pro. MySQL would have melted down already.
[2023-09-05 07:17:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| heh, I've got my cluster running probably around half strength right now, and postgres is taking it like a pro. MySQL would have melted down already.
[2023-09-05 07:18:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not sure it's actually running at full strength though, because I think I screwed up the rate limiter on one of the jobs. It should be running more jobs more quickly, but it's not. The first job in the dependency list, the one the other depend on, should be running 25 times/minute, but it seems to be running less often
[2023-09-05 07:18:14] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure it's actually running at full strength though, because I think I screwed up the rate limiter on one of the jobs. It should be running more jobs more quickly, but it's not. The first job in the dependency list, the one the other depend on, should be running 25 times/minute, but it seems to be running less often
[2023-09-05 07:18:40] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| sure you got enough resources? It is a pi after all
[2023-09-05 07:18:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| sure you got enough resources? It is a pi after all
[2023-09-05 10:27:21] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: The database isn't a pi
[2023-09-05 10:27:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: The database isn't a pi
[2023-09-05 10:28:02] <Lucifer_arma> it's a Intel(R) Pentium(R) Silver N5030 CPU @ 1.10GHz
[2023-09-05 10:28:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's a Intel(R) Pentium(R) Silver N5030 CPU @ 1.10GHz
[2023-09-05 10:28:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh that's fairly recent. Anuc?
[2023-09-05 10:29:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh that's fairly recent. Anuc?
[2023-09-05 10:29:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| * a nuc?
[2023-09-05 10:29:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| * a nuc?
[2023-09-05 10:29:26] <Lucifer_arma> CPU max MHz: 3100.0000
[2023-09-05 10:29:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| CPU max MHz: 3100.0000
[2023-09-05 10:29:32] <Lucifer_arma> laptop
[2023-09-05 10:29:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| laptop
[2023-09-05 10:29:50] <Lucifer_arma> some lenovo thing I got for like $200 :)
[2023-09-05 10:29:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| some lenovo thing I got for like $200 :)
[2023-09-05 10:30:31] <Lucifer_arma> it outperforms the pis, but it's still, uh, resource-starved
[2023-09-05 10:30:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it outperforms the pis, but it's still, uh, resource-starved
[2023-09-05 10:31:08] <Lucifer_arma> I could still use a dedicated database machine with serious RAM, 8+ cores, etc.
[2023-09-05 10:31:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I could still use a dedicated database machine with serious RAM, 8+ cores, etc.
[2023-09-05 10:32:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf I ran mailcow, apache, and MS-SQL on an elderly 2001 laptop for a good three years - right up until last year in fact. Prolly not a massive issue unless it's horribly starved for memory
[2023-09-05 10:32:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf I ran mailcow, apache, and MS-SQL on an elderly 2001 laptop for a good three years - right up until last year in fact. Prolly not a massive issue unless it's horribly starved for memory
[2023-09-05 10:33:08] <Lucifer_arma> if the app works out, I'll have the money for some serious hardware. All that really matters right now is that the hardware I have will do the job, and it wasn't looking good with mysql.
[2023-09-05 10:33:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if the app works out, I'll have the money for some serious hardware. All that really matters right now is that the hardware I have will do the job, and it wasn't looking good with mysql.
[2023-09-05 10:33:41] <Lucifer_arma> I'm still running a stock postgres install, there's room for optimization. I'm also still writing all the cluster management code, so there's room to optimize my actual queries
[2023-09-05 10:33:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm still running a stock postgres install, there's room for optimization. I'm also still writing all the cluster management code, so there's room to optimize my actual queries
[2023-09-05 10:36:20] <Lucifer_arma> my next big task is to find out why my scheduler takes up 99% CPU like it does. If it's actually working, that's fine, but if it's doing all that in the network, then I need to do some network optimizations
[2023-09-05 10:36:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| my next big task is to find out why my scheduler takes up 99% CPU like it does. If it's actually working, that's fine, but if it's doing all that in the network, then I need to do some network optimizations
[2023-09-05 10:36:40] <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, and write the prediction job.
[2023-09-05 10:36:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh yeah, and write the prediction job.
[2023-09-05 10:37:39] <Lucifer_arma> Tonight, well, earlier today, I guess (tonight, since I woke up at like 5pm yesterday), I ran it for a few hours for the first time. So now I'm looking for the kinds of problems that only happen when the app is running for a long time
[2023-09-05 10:37:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Tonight, well, earlier today, I guess (tonight, since I woke up at like 5pm yesterday), I ran it for a few hours for the first time. So now I'm looking for the kinds of problems that only happen when the app is running for a long time
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[2023-09-05 16:07:32] <Z-Man> Gaa, too much to read.
[2023-09-05 16:07:32] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: Sure a dictatorship is easier, but your dictator is a micromanager and can turn out to be the bottleneck. With the work stealing anarchy, well, fist of all you need a system where jobs get created by jobs; then the network becomes the limit. Not every worker needs to talk to every other; a hypercube connection should do fine (every worker gets a number and communicates only with those workers where the number differs by one
[2023-09-05 16:07:32] <Z-Man> binary digit).
[2023-09-05 16:07:33] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Gaa, too much to read.
[2023-09-05 16:07:33] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| binary digit).
[2023-09-05 16:07:34] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: Sure a dictatorship is easier, but your dictator is a micromanager and can turn out to be the bottleneck. With the work stealing anarchy, well, fist of all you need a system where jobs get created by jobs; then the network becomes the limit. Not every worker needs to talk to every other; a hypercube connection should do fine (every worker gets a number and communica <clipped message>
[2023-09-05 16:07:35] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| tes only with those workers where the number differs by one
[2023-09-05 16:10:39] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| What you describe as the shooter network communication is basically what they do, at least for "infinite" speed weapons, since Half Life/Counterstrike. What is sent and how it is interpreted by the server is a high art :) Early-ish Call of Duty games had an exploit where you could interrupt the physical network connection, all the other players would stand still and you could jus <clipped message>
[2023-09-05 16:10:39] <Z-Man> What you describe as the shooter network communication is basically what they do, at least for "infinite" speed weapons, since Half Life/Counterstrike. What is sent and how it is interpreted by the server is a high art :) Early-ish Call of Duty games had an exploit where you could interrupt the physical network connection, all the other players would stand still and you could just shoot them, then reconnect. Because you shot them on your
[2023-09-05 16:10:39] <Z-Man> client and the server trusted the client a little too much, that counted.
[2023-09-05 16:10:40] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| t shoot them, then reconnect. Because you shot them on your
[2023-09-05 16:10:41] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| client and the server trusted the client a little too much, that counted.
[2023-09-05 16:14:10] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Arma's ping uses three exponential decay averagers with varying decay rates and then picks the best one. It also measures ping variations, and if they are high, the faster decaying averager is used. It is very ad-hoc. Maybe just using the median of the three would be better.
[2023-09-05 16:14:10] <Z-Man> Arma's ping uses three exponential decay averagers with varying decay rates and then picks the best one. It also measures ping variations, and if they are high, the faster decaying averager is used. It is very ad-hoc. Maybe just using the median of the three would be better.
[2023-09-05 16:26:09] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Network logging: There is wireshark, I suppose you can configure it to do what you want. But no, I did not use any of that, the basic network communication was rarely a problem. And for the higher level problems, having a network log would not have helped. I used selective printf logging for that, or visual debugging aids.
[2023-09-05 16:26:09] <Z-Man> Network logging: There is wireshark, I suppose you can configure it to do what you want. But no, I did not use any of that, the basic network communication was rarely a problem. And for the higher level problems, having a network log would not have helped. I used selective printf logging for that, or visual debugging aids.
[2023-09-05 16:48:27] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Arma's ack/resend mechanism is basically what you described for your mechanism. We send packets, if no ack arrives until Ping * some factor + Ping variation * some factor later, we resend; the receiver always sends acks for received packets, even if it already got them (then they are just not processed again)
[2023-09-05 16:48:28] <Z-Man> Arma's ack/resend mechanism is basically what you described for your mechanism. We send packets, if no ack arrives until Ping * some factor + Ping variation * some factor later, we resend; the receiver always sends acks for received packets, even if it already got them (then they are just not processed again)
[2023-09-05 16:50:49] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| I think your "send relative positions to walls" idea would only do good for a) the non-90 degree turn case, where a slide may put you on a collision course sooner or later or b) when mazing against your own walls, where your client may still have them in a pre-slide position.
[2023-09-05 16:50:49] <Z-Man> I think your "send relative positions to walls" idea would only do good for a) the non-90 degree turn case, where a slide may put you on a collision course sooner or later or b) when mazing against your own walls, where your client may still have them in a pre-slide position.
[2023-09-05 16:52:16] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Regular other player walls will not slide. The one thing that can change your distance to a wall comparing the client with the server is if a player just cuts you off, or you have prediction on and they turn out of the way, and I think compensating in those cases would do more harm than good.
[2023-09-05 16:52:16] <Z-Man> Regular other player walls will not slide. The one thing that can change your distance to a wall comparing the client with the server is if a player just cuts you off, or you have prediction on and they turn out of the way, and I think compensating in those cases would do more harm than good.
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[2023-09-05 16:57:10] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @northernscrub about the error video: Aside from packet loss, it could also be that the client refuses to accept whatever the server sends, because that goes through a whole "simulate again from the time the server sync was sent to now" phase where things can go wrong. Also, server syncs are only fully accepted if you have not turned again in the meantime; accepting them too earl <clipped message>
[2023-09-05 16:57:11] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| y would lead to multiple slides, possibly back and forth because the re-simulation stuff is hard and unreliable. In a perfect world, it would rewind the entire gamestate to do its simulation, but for simplicity, it only does so for your cycle and uses the stored metadata in the walls to check whether they already existed in the past.
[2023-09-05 16:57:11] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @northernscrub about the error video: Aside from packet loss, it could also be that the client refuses to accept whatever the server sends, because that goes through a whole "simulate again from the time the server sync was sent to now" phase where things can go wrong. Also, server syncs are only fully accepted if you have not turned again in the meantime; accepting them too earl <clipped message>
[2023-09-05 16:57:11] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| y would lead to multiple slides, possibly back and forth because the re-simulation stuff is hard and unreliable. In a perfect world, it would rewind the entire gamestate to do its simulation, but for simplicity, it only does so for your cycle and uses the stored metadata in the walls to check whether they already existed in the past.
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[2023-09-05 22:56:31] <Lucifer_arma> Found the bottleneck. Now my cluster is running at full strength. :)
[2023-09-05 22:56:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Found the bottleneck. Now my cluster is running at full strength. :)
[2023-09-05 22:58:21] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: with only two workers, that's a bit of overkill. The micromanager is fine, although if this cluster ever gets to a significant size, I'll probably get more hierachical
[2023-09-05 22:58:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: with only two workers, that's a bit of overkill. The micromanager is fine, although if this cluster ever gets to a significant size, I'll probably get more hierachical
[2023-09-05 23:11:11] <Lucifer_arma> now I'm back to the other question. Do I setup the third Pi as a database server, a generic worker, or a scheduler? If I make it a scheduler, I'll put a worker node on it, still, but I'll make the worker only use 2-3 CPUs instead of all 4
[2023-09-05 23:11:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now I'm back to the other question. Do I setup the third Pi as a database server, a generic worker, or a scheduler? If I make it a scheduler, I'll put a worker node on it, still, but I'll make the worker only use 2-3 CPUs instead of all 4
[2023-09-05 23:12:10] <Lucifer_arma> If I don't make it the database, then the database will stay on my laptop. Otherwise, the laptop gets the scheduler. I could put a worker on my laptop, too, and have it only use two CPUs.
[2023-09-05 23:12:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| If I don't make it the database, then the database will stay on my laptop. Otherwise, the laptop gets the scheduler. I could put a worker on my laptop, too, and have it only use two CPUs.
[2023-09-05 23:13:30] <Lucifer_arma> If I make it the database, then I need a USB 4 adapter for the ssd that I have, so that it'll be able to access the filesystem at a high speed. That's probably going to be the deciding factor.
[2023-09-05 23:13:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| If I make it the database, then I need a USB 4 adapter for the ssd that I have, so that it'll be able to access the filesystem at a high speed. That's probably going to be the deciding factor.
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[2023-09-06 21:54:04] <Lucifer_arma> well I guess that's a milestone achieved. My cluster has been running uninterupted for a couple of hours now, which is longer than it's ran so far, and it's still going strong
[2023-09-06 21:54:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well I guess that's a milestone achieved. My cluster has been running uninterupted for a couple of hours now, which is longer than it's ran so far, and it's still going strong
[2023-09-06 21:54:32] <Lucifer_arma> to really take the next step, I need a fully populated database, which means it needs to run for quite a few more hours
[2023-09-06 21:54:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| to really take the next step, I need a fully populated database, which means it needs to run for quite a few more hours
[2023-09-06 21:55:40] <Lucifer_arma> but I ran a basic check on a couple of prediction algorithms I tossed together, and if I started with a million dollars, I'd be able to get quite a bit richer
[2023-09-06 21:55:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I ran a basic check on a couple of prediction algorithms I tossed together, and if I started with a million dollars, I'd be able to get quite a bit richer
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[2023-09-07 16:07:11] <Z-Man> Well yeah, with only a few workers, the job distribution principle does not matter much and you should go with the simplest one that works.
[2023-09-07 16:07:12] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Well yeah, with only a few workers, the job distribution principle does not matter much and you should go with the simplest one that works.
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[2023-09-07 22:45:26] <Lucifer_arma> It's going to be three workers soon. :) The power supply got here today. I'm going to work on optimizing the network, though, so I don't think I'll be bringing the new worker online yet
[2023-09-07 22:45:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| It's going to be three workers soon. :) The power supply got here today. I'm going to work on optimizing the network, though, so I don't think I'll be bringing the new worker online yet
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[2023-09-08 02:10:34] <Lucifer_arma> Ok, besides stock prices, what else should be in a prediction? I was considering putting standard deviation in it, where it would just be yesterday's standard deviation
[2023-09-08 02:10:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Ok, besides stock prices, what else should be in a prediction? I was considering putting standard deviation in it, where it would just be yesterday's standard deviation
[2023-09-08 02:11:49] <Lucifer_arma> I think max-min should be there, too, because if that's a real small number (like less than .20), then it's not something I'm going to be interested in
[2023-09-08 02:11:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think max-min should be there, too, because if that's a real small number (like less than .20), then it's not something I'm going to be interested in
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[2023-09-08 02:13:06] <Lucifer_arma> the purpose of these other fields in a prediction is so that I can put them in a where clause, and so they'll be right there when I'm doing calculations with the prediction to determine if I should buy/sell/ignore
[2023-09-08 02:13:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the purpose of these other fields in a prediction is so that I can put them in a where clause, and so they'll be right there when I'm doing calculations with the prediction to determine if I should buy/sell/ignore
[2023-09-08 02:13:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| basically, the first thing the trading algorithm will do is select * from predictions where date=today;
[2023-09-08 02:13:50] <Lucifer_arma> basically, the first thing the trading algorithm will do is select * from predictions where date=today;
[2023-09-08 02:14:03] <Lucifer_arma> Then it'll iterate over that list to build a list of stocks to trade.
[2023-09-08 02:14:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Then it'll iterate over that list to build a list of stocks to trade.
[2023-09-08 02:15:43] <Lucifer_arma> I could curve_fit SMA, or any techindicator, for that matter and predict those values. Then my where clause could include "SMA.low > prediction.low", which is a common way to determine if a stock is undervalued, thus making it a potential investment
[2023-09-08 02:15:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I could curve_fit SMA, or any techindicator, for that matter and predict those values. Then my where clause could include "SMA.low > prediction.low", which is a common way to determine if a stock is undervalued, thus making it a potential investment
[2023-09-08 02:16:11] <Lucifer_arma> of course, I can also just do two queries where I check yesterday's numbers
[2023-09-08 02:16:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| of course, I can also just do two queries where I check yesterday's numbers
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[2023-09-08 10:11:43] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| This might be a head-in-the-clouds suggestion. If you can find some way to add in a metric for an org's actions, that would be something fairly unique to you. I would look to comprise it of two overall metrics - one being the financial impact, and one being the social impact. Whilst the former is important to traditional market participants, the latter is becoming more important <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| This might be a head-in-the-clouds suggestion. If you can find some way to add in a metric for an org's actions, that would be something fairly unique to you. I would look to comprise it of two overall metrics - one being the financial impact, and one being the social impact. Whilst the former is important to traditional market participants, the latter is becoming more important <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| to retail investors. The GME incident is a very good example of this.
[2023-09-08 10:11:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| to retail investors. The GME incident is a very good example of this.
[2023-09-08 10:11:49] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| You could conceivably define preeminent scoring for certain actions, that impact both metrics. For example, an organisation that goes on a significant hiring spree without any obvious projects for those hires to work on is more than likely trying to limit the resources of its competition. This frequently results in mass layoffs later on down the line. FAANG orgs do this a *lot*, <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:50] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| You could conceivably define preeminent scoring for certain actions, that impact both metrics. For example, an organisation that goes on a significant hiring spree without any obvious projects for those hires to work on is more than likely trying to limit the resources of its competition. This frequently results in mass layoffs later on down the line. FAANG orgs do this a *lot*, <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:50] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| in a recurrent cycle, so having this information available would be useful. You can also use these metrics to form a profile of your users, so you can base investment suggestions around their values using these metrics. That would also require some fairly detailed information - so, for example, analysing job vacancy advertisements, which you can potentially scrape in bulk.
[2023-09-08 10:11:50] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| in a recurrent cycle, so having this information available would be useful. You can also use these metrics to form a profile of your users, so you can base investment suggestions around their values using these metrics. That would also require some fairly detailed information - so, for example, analysing job vacancy advertisements, which you can potentially scrape in bulk.
[2023-09-08 10:11:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| It doesn't have to be limited to internal stuff, though - you can look at, for example, outreaches by a given org both domestically and internationally - and include opinion and comment from multiple sources. Take Ukraine's criticism of Musk today - Starlink is accused of deliberately disabling (or potentially not enabling) internet access in the Crimea region during a strike at <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| It doesn't have to be limited to internal stuff, though - you can look at, for example, outreaches by a given org both domestically and internationally - and include opinion and comment from multiple sources. Take Ukraine's criticism of Musk today - Starlink is accused of deliberately disabling (or potentially not enabling) internet access in the Crimea region during a strike at <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Russian naval forces. You can read quite a lot into this, both in Ukraine's criticism, and Musk's response. One the one hand, this action may have had a significant impact on Ukraine's ability to deploy forces, giving reason to those symapthetic to Ukraine to withdraw their holdings. However, you could also argue that Starlink is avoiding potential ITAR restrictions, which means <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Russian naval forces. You can read quite a lot into this, both in Ukraine's criticism, and Musk's response. One the one hand, this action may have had a significant impact on Ukraine's ability to deploy forces, giving reason to those symapthetic to Ukraine to withdraw their holdings. However, you could also argue that Starlink is avoiding potential ITAR restrictions, which means <clipped message>
[2023-09-08 10:11:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| that, whilst the action no doubt had a negative impact on Ukraine, it made financial sense at the time. Hence, the financial assessment metric would be significantly different from the social impact metric. If you adapt your ticker suggestions to your user profiles, you'd essentially be predicting a "change of hands" as it were - relating to holdings specifically.
[2023-09-08 10:11:54] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| that, whilst the action no doubt had a negative impact on Ukraine, it made financial sense at the time. Hence, the financial assessment metric would be significantly different from the social impact metric. If you adapt your ticker suggestions to your user profiles, you'd essentially be predicting a "change of hands" as it were - relating to holdings specifically.
[2023-09-08 10:11:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| There's a great deal you can do with this, if you can find a way to automate it. It might even be possible to use a LLM to guage the connotations of an event, as it is reported, which you can then use to somewhat automate a metric assessment, and feed that assessment into your project.
[2023-09-08 10:11:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| There's a great deal you can do with this, if you can find a way to automate it. It might even be possible to use a LLM to guage the connotations of an event, as it is reported, which you can then use to somewhat automate a metric assessment, and feed that assessment into your project.
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[2023-09-08 22:32:30] <Lucifer_arma> Well, there's only one user, and it's me, and the intent is to make money playing the stock market automatically. In the process, I am building a real stock database that's currently just a copy of someone else's database, and down the road, metrics like that will be important. So here's some fun stuff.
[2023-09-08 22:32:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Well, there's only one user, and it's me, and the intent is to make money playing the stock market automatically. In the process, I am building a real stock database that's currently just a copy of someone else's database, and down the road, metrics like that will be important. So here's some fun stuff.
[2023-09-08 22:32:59] <Lucifer_arma> My main datasource provider actually provides an API where you can access news articles about a stock symbol, and I believe it's a daily thing.
[2023-09-08 22:32:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| My main datasource provider actually provides an API where you can access news articles about a stock symbol, and I believe it's a daily thing.
[2023-09-08 22:33:16] <Lucifer_arma> There's a lot of the boring financial stuff, reports on filings, that sort of thing. But the feel-good pieces are in there too
[2023-09-08 22:33:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| There's a lot of the boring financial stuff, reports on filings, that sort of thing. But the feel-good pieces are in there too
[2023-09-08 22:33:43] <Lucifer_arma> So you could write a job that downloads that information and then scans the text looking for particular indicators.
[2023-09-08 22:33:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| So you could write a job that downloads that information and then scans the text looking for particular indicators.
[2023-09-08 22:34:37] <Lucifer_arma> It's on my long-term plan, if this whole thing works out in the first place, to incorporate that data and possibly do my own web scraping looking for more information, because I don't want my long-term income to be reliant on certain companies/types of companies
[2023-09-08 22:34:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| It's on my long-term plan, if this whole thing works out in the first place, to incorporate that data and possibly do my own web scraping looking for more information, because I don't want my long-term income to be reliant on certain companies/types of companies
[2023-09-08 22:35:19] <Lucifer_arma> like my bank, I don't want any of my money going to fossil fuel companies of any kind. Plastics derived from oil are fine, though. As good as buying meat from the grocery store, anyway, which is problematic.
[2023-09-08 22:35:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| like my bank, I don't want any of my money going to fossil fuel companies of any kind. Plastics derived from oil are fine, though. As good as buying meat from the grocery store, anyway, which is problematic.
[2023-09-08 22:36:08] <Lucifer_arma> and before anybody says "You're buying stocks from investors, not the companies", companies actually play their own stocks, selling high and buying low as part of raising capital for growth. This is literally one of the reasons capitalism exists in the first place.
[2023-09-08 22:36:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and before anybody says "You're buying stocks from investors, not the companies", companies actually play their own stocks, selling high and buying low as part of raising capital for growth. This is literally one of the reasons capitalism exists in the first place.
[2023-09-08 22:36:46] <Lucifer_arma> I believe you can also predict long-term financial outlook based on a company's ethical behavior
[2023-09-08 22:36:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I believe you can also predict long-term financial outlook based on a company's ethical behavior
[2023-09-08 22:37:22] <Lucifer_arma> so there are other parts of the datasource API that get me access to a company's financial statements, SEC filings, and so forth, that can tell me if the company is being run well financially
[2023-09-08 22:37:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so there are other parts of the datasource API that get me access to a company's financial statements, SEC filings, and so forth, that can tell me if the company is being run well financially
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[2023-09-08 22:58:01] <Lucifer_arma> This is now my favorite code that I've ever written:
[2023-09-08 22:58:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| This is now my favorite code that I've ever written:
[2023-09-08 22:58:17] <Lucifer_arma> ## The class your application must inherit. It enables so, so many things that matter.
[2023-09-08 22:58:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ## The class your application must inherit. It enables so, so many things that matter.
[2023-09-08 22:58:18] <Lucifer_arma> class Application(object):
[2023-09-08 22:58:20] <Lucifer_arma> pass
[2023-09-08 22:58:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| class Application(object):
[2023-09-08 22:58:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| pass
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[2023-09-09 08:22:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Sounds like you're well on your way to pretty much implementing it. The nly thing I would suggest is that you don't solely rely on the API. I can almost guarantee you it will miss a significant proportion of news, and opinion on that news. The latter is just as important provided you can adjust for speculative bias, because it not only contributes perspective but may also link ot <clipped message>
[2023-09-09 08:22:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Sounds like you're well on your way to pretty much implementing it. The nly thing I would suggest is that you don't solely rely on the API. I can almost guarantee you it will miss a significant proportion of news, and opinion on that news. The latter is just as important provided you can adjust for speculative bias, because it not only contributes perspective but may also link ot <clipped message>
[2023-09-09 08:22:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| her events that may be related, but not necessarily relevant in a news context.
[2023-09-09 08:22:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| her events that may be related, but not necessarily relevant in a news context.
[2023-09-09 08:22:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Are you doing dailies though? Because if you want to automate this, you have a chance to do even better than hourlies - maybe even micro trading on a frequency similar to that of the big houses. That's a whole different area though, one I plan on looking at once I have a solid financial foundation for my business
[2023-09-09 08:22:38] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Are you doing dailies though? Because if you want to automate this, you have a chance to do even better than hourlies - maybe even micro trading on a frequency similar to that of the big houses. That's a whole different area though, one I plan on looking at once I have a solid financial foundation for my business
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[2023-09-09 19:08:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| fucking finally. I dunno why it takes like three reboots to get this firewall working properly
[2023-09-09 19:08:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| fucking finally. I dunno why it takes like three reboots to get this firewall working properly
[2023-09-09 19:08:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I gotta fix that
[2023-09-09 19:08:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I gotta fix that
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[2023-09-09 22:46:52] <Lucifer_arma> I'm doing dailies because hourly is more expensive in every possible way. The whole reason I'm doing all this network programming is because the cluster runs a shitload of analyses on each stock symbol, and it's going to get to something on the order of 7-10 jobs per symbol as soon as it updates. So to do hourly and be completely up to date, I have to process ~5000 symbols with all of those jobs, too, every hour.
[2023-09-09 22:46:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm doing dailies because hourly is more expensive in every possible way. The whole reason I'm doing all this network programming is because the cluster runs a shitload of analyses on each stock symbol, and it's going to get to something on the order of 7-10 jobs per symbol as soon as it updates. So to do hourly and be completely up to date, I have to process ~5000 symbols with <clipped message>
[2023-09-09 22:46:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| all of those jobs, too, every hour.
[2023-09-09 22:47:57] <Lucifer_arma> right now I'm about to introduce it to 4 jobs per symbol, but it's only running two (not counting the stock price retrieval job, which is an actual job that runs on the cluster, too)
[2023-09-09 22:47:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| right now I'm about to introduce it to 4 jobs per symbol, but it's only running two (not counting the stock price retrieval job, which is an actual job that runs on the cluster, too)
[2023-09-09 22:48:40] <Lucifer_arma> then the datasource costs money, too. It's a $26 subscription for what I have right now, which is unlimited api calls, but a maximum of 25 api calls per minute. That's plenty of calls, but obviously not enough to do hourly updates. It'll only support daily updates.
[2023-09-09 22:48:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| then the datasource costs money, too. It's a $26 subscription for what I have right now, which is unlimited api calls, but a maximum of 25 api calls per minute. That's plenty of calls, but obviously not enough to do hourly updates. It'll only support daily updates.
[2023-09-09 22:51:53] <Lucifer_arma> but I can still do some light day trading with this. The plan is to aim for putting in the buy orders when the market opens and putting the sell order at the same time. Then, if the low price happens before the high price, the trade will complete on the same day
[2023-09-09 22:51:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I can still do some light day trading with this. The plan is to aim for putting in the buy orders when the market opens and putting the sell order at the same time. Then, if the low price happens before the high price, the trade will complete on the same day
[2023-09-09 22:52:40] <Lucifer_arma> also, because of limited computing power, I'm going to be relying pretty much exclusively on technical indicators, standard indicators and anything else I dream up that might be useful (so, standard indicators)
[2023-09-09 22:52:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, because of limited computing power, I'm going to be relying pretty much exclusively on technical indicators, standard indicators and anything else I dream up that might be useful (so, standard indicators)
[2023-09-09 22:53:03] <Lucifer_arma> so you see why I need a better database :)
[2023-09-09 22:53:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so you see why I need a better database :)
[2023-09-09 22:54:13] <Lucifer_arma> so, the predictions should provide pretty solid high/low prices to work with. The trading algorithm will then select stock symbols based on technical indicators that have proven to show those stocks are undervalued, and any other possible traits that I figure out
[2023-09-09 22:54:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, the predictions should provide pretty solid high/low prices to work with. The trading algorithm will then select stock symbols based on technical indicators that have proven to show those stocks are undervalued, and any other possible traits that I figure out
[2023-09-09 22:54:44] <Lucifer_arma> I'll be writing my own simulation soon to test this algorithm against my own database, and the datasource provider provides a realtime simulation for testing that I'll use to validate my own simulation.
[2023-09-09 22:54:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll be writing my own simulation soon to test this algorithm against my own database, and the datasource provider provides a realtime simulation for testing that I'll use to validate my own simulation.
[2023-09-09 22:54:55] <Lucifer_arma> When that's all done, I'll give it some real money and go
[2023-09-09 22:54:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| When that's all done, I'll give it some real money and go
[2023-09-09 22:55:07] <Lucifer_arma> (Correction: The brokerage provides the simulation, not the datasource provider)
[2023-09-09 22:55:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (Correction: The brokerage provides the simulation, not the datasource provider)
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[2023-09-11 00:42:06] <Lucifer_arma> Picard just said "Klingon Imperial Empire". How did that get through all the editing, the directing and acting, the editing? How did that get through? Clearly, at that point in time, the ST:TNG writers were consulting with the Redundancy Department of Redundancies.
[2023-09-11 00:42:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Picard just said "Klingon Imperial Empire". How did that get through all the editing, the directing and acting, the editing? How did that get through? Clearly, at that point in time, the ST:TNG writers were consulting with the Redundancy Department of Redundancies.
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[2023-09-11 05:29:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| An empire isn't necessarily imperial. Imperialism implies that an empire controls nation states within itself by means of exerting control over the governments of those nation states. An empire could equally exist by being managed by a singular government with representatives, whereby the members of the empire would not be considered nation states unto themselves. That's the whol <clipped message>
[2023-09-11 05:29:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| An empire isn't necessarily imperial. Imperialism implies that an empire controls nation states within itself by means of exerting control over the governments of those nation states. An empire could equally exist by being managed by a singular government with representatives, whereby the members of the empire would not be considered nation states unto themselves. That's the whol <clipped message>
[2023-09-11 05:29:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| e point of the Romulans vs Cardassians vs Klingons trope - the Romulans adopt empire by means of whole annexation, the Klingons by imperialism, and the Cardassians by subjugation and fascism. The only real portrayal of it is in DS9 with the implied history of the Cardassian subjugation of Bajor.
[2023-09-11 05:29:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| e point of the Romulans vs Cardassians vs Klingons trope - the Romulans adopt empire by means of whole annexation, the Klingons by imperialism, and the Cardassians by subjugation and fascism. The only real portrayal of it is in DS9 with the implied history of the Cardassian subjugation of Bajor.
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[2023-09-12 03:02:51] <Lucifer_arma> But...but... you're just describing different shades of the same color
[2023-09-12 03:02:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| But...but... you're just describing different shades of the same color
[2023-09-12 03:04:17] <Lucifer_arma> Also, a federation or a confederation nominally has a government (of sorts) that rules over nation states that are nominally independent, where each one voluntarily surrenders some of its authority to the higher government in exchange for benefits like protection from that government
[2023-09-12 03:04:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Also, a federation or a confederation nominally has a government (of sorts) that rules over nation states that are nominally independent, where each one voluntarily surrenders some of its authority to the higher government in exchange for benefits like protection from that government
[2023-09-12 03:05:57] <Lucifer_arma> The Klingons also subjugated, as shown in the TOS episode Errand of Mercy, where they attempted to do just that to the Organians. The Romulans were modeled after imperial Rome, which conquered, put their own regional governors in charge, and then allowed for self-rule (for the most part)
[2023-09-12 03:05:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| The Klingons also subjugated, as shown in the TOS episode Errand of Mercy, where they attempted to do just that to the Organians. The Romulans were modeled after imperial Rome, which conquered, put their own regional governors in charge, and then allowed for self-rule (for the most part)
[2023-09-12 03:07:43] <Lucifer_arma> but as I recall, the defining trait of an empire is perpetual growth, usually through conquest, although the Europeans called it colonization.
[2023-09-12 03:07:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but as I recall, the defining trait of an empire is perpetual growth, usually through conquest, although the Europeans called it colonization.
[2023-09-12 03:14:33] <Lucifer_arma> ok, it looks to me like the defining trait of an empire is simply that whatever people or nation state that is absorbed into an empire, it is done without the people or nation state choosing, usually through conquest.
[2023-09-12 03:14:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, it looks to me like the defining trait of an empire is simply that whatever people or nation state that is absorbed into an empire, it is done without the people or nation state choosing, usually through conquest.
[2023-09-12 03:15:17] <Lucifer_arma> Also, that the ruling polity, whoever that is, has more rights and power than the ruled
[2023-09-12 03:15:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Also, that the ruling polity, whoever that is, has more rights and power than the ruled
[2023-09-12 03:16:26] <Lucifer_arma> so during the first few seasons of ds9, the Federation was trying to exert some form of imperial influence over Bajor, and Bajor was really trying to keep its independence but felt like it was going to have to join the Federation to get protection from Cardassia
[2023-09-12 03:16:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so during the first few seasons of ds9, the Federation was trying to exert some form of imperial influence over Bajor, and Bajor was really trying to keep its independence but felt like it was going to have to join the Federation to get protection from Cardassia
[2023-09-12 03:17:31] <Lucifer_arma> and the line Sisko was walking was that he knew that Bajor needed to join the Federation voluntarily, without any coercion at all, and at a certain point, the Prophets made it clear to him that Bajor needed to stay independent, which ultimately saved them from the Dominion
[2023-09-12 03:17:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and the line Sisko was walking was that he knew that Bajor needed to join the Federation voluntarily, without any coercion at all, and at a certain point, the Prophets made it clear to him that Bajor needed to stay independent, which ultimately saved them from the Dominion
[2023-09-12 03:17:57] <Lucifer_arma> even then, the Dominion nearly absorbed Bajor then they occupied DS9 for that whole season (I forget which it was, season 5?)
[2023-09-12 03:17:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| even then, the Dominion nearly absorbed Bajor then they occupied DS9 for that whole season (I forget which it was, season 5?)
[2023-09-12 03:19:27] <Lucifer_arma> we never see the romulans trying to expand, so we dont' know *how* they expand. They could very well be one of those empires who's an empire in name only, like the former Mexican Empire
[2023-09-12 03:19:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we never see the romulans trying to expand, so we dont' know *how* they expand. They could very well be one of those empires who's an empire in name only, like the former Mexican Empire
[2023-09-12 03:20:35] <Lucifer_arma> in the TNG era, we don't see the Klingons trying to expand either, and that's an important plot point in later TNG and throughout DS9 (important for the Klingons, not important for the shows that aren't about the Klingons). But we see them expanding, sort of, in Enterprise
[2023-09-12 03:20:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| in the TNG era, we don't see the Klingons trying to expand either, and that's an important plot point in later TNG and throughout DS9 (important for the Klingons, not important for the shows that aren't about the Klingons). But we see them expanding, sort of, in Enterprise
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[2023-09-12 10:17:43] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| I feel like that definition of imperialism is separate and a more modern term @northernscrub imperial is just the adjective version of empire
[2023-09-12 10:17:43] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| I feel like that definition of imperialism is separate and a more modern term @northernscrub imperial is just the adjective version of empire
[2023-09-12 12:16:59] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:spectron2077| What ever happend to adding music to armagetronad. The gltron game has it
[2023-09-12 12:16:59] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:spectron2077| What ever happend to adding music to armagetronad. The gltron game has it
[2023-09-12 12:21:34] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| trunk (0.4) does have music
[2023-09-12 12:21:34] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| trunk (0.4) does have music
[2023-09-12 12:24:03] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:spectron2077| Where do I find this
[2023-09-12 12:24:03] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:spectron2077| Where do I find this
[2023-09-12 12:24:46] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://download.armagetronad.org
[2023-09-12 12:24:46] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://download.armagetronad.org
[2023-09-12 16:05:42] <Lucifer_arma> I seem to remember playlist support not working, or there's some sort of catch to it
[2023-09-12 16:05:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I seem to remember playlist support not working, or there's some sort of catch to it
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[2023-09-12 23:07:11] <Lucifer_arma> @Deso: maybe, but it would have been the understood meaning when these stories were written. It's not like we're trying real hard to evaluate ancient empires that used a different working definition.
[2023-09-12 23:07:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Deso: maybe, but it would have been the understood meaning when these stories were written. It's not like we're trying real hard to evaluate ancient empires that used a different working definition.
[2023-09-12 23:07:28] <Lucifer_arma> Still, all the ancient empires that come to mind (Rome, Greek, Persia) all meet this definition
[2023-09-12 23:07:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Still, all the ancient empires that come to mind (Rome, Greek, Persia) all meet this definition
[2023-09-12 23:08:39] <Lucifer_arma> Curiously, I don't think Imperial Japan tried to expand much past the island chain until the 20th century, other than longstanding feuds over the Korean peninsula and manchuria
[2023-09-12 23:08:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Curiously, I don't think Imperial Japan tried to expand much past the island chain until the 20th century, other than longstanding feuds over the Korean peninsula and manchuria
[2023-09-12 23:10:11] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| still the definition of imperial has nothing to do with imperialism
[2023-09-12 23:10:13] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| still the definition of imperial has nothing to do with imperialism
[2023-09-12 23:10:16] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| it just means empire
[2023-09-12 23:10:16] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| it just means empire
[2023-09-12 23:16:51] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/worst-lines-of-dialogue-in-trek.304571/page-5 mentioned on this thread of "worst lines in star trek" lol
[2023-09-12 23:16:51] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/worst-lines-of-dialogue-in-trek.304571/page-5 mentioned on this thread of "worst lines in star trek" lol
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[2023-09-13 03:52:00] <Lucifer_arma> well then. I've done all this work to build a cluster because my computer wasn't fast enough to run the jobs I wrote. Then I needed to optimize the jobs because they were really hitting the database. Now they're running so fast, I could do all this in a single process.
[2023-09-13 03:52:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well then. I've done all this work to build a cluster because my computer wasn't fast enough to run the jobs I wrote. Then I needed to optimize the jobs because they were really hitting the database. Now they're running so fast, I could do all this in a single process.
[2023-09-13 03:52:15] <Lucifer_arma> Not sure if I should be feeling proud or silly
[2023-09-13 03:52:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Not sure if I should be feeling proud or silly
[2023-09-13 03:53:00] <Lucifer_arma> (side note: I still have to write more jobs, and my rate limiting is too limiting, so they're not actually running at full speed yet, so this silly feeling is only temporary)
[2023-09-13 03:53:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (side note: I still have to write more jobs, and my rate limiting is too limiting, so they're not actually running at full speed yet, so this silly feeling is only temporary)
[2023-09-13 03:53:35] <Lucifer_arma> but I have a not-quite-working UI at http://landru.davefancella.com if you want to see if my cluster's doing any work right now
[2023-09-13 03:53:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I have a not-quite-working UI at http://landru.davefancella.com if you want to see if my cluster's doing any work right now
[2023-09-13 03:53:53] <Lucifer_arma> that'll get locked up behind a login screen soon, and please don't get too click-crazy with it.
[2023-09-13 03:53:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that'll get locked up behind a login screen soon, and please don't get too click-crazy with it.
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[2023-09-14 23:41:05] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:spectron2077| Is there any way for me to have the armegetron music playing while im playing the game
[2023-09-14 23:41:05] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:spectron2077| Is there any way for me to have the armegetron music playing while im playing the game
[2023-09-14 23:44:08] <Lucifer_arma> You mean the song that plays under the UI when you start the game?
[2023-09-14 23:44:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| You mean the song that plays under the UI when you start the game?
[2023-09-14 23:44:49] <Lucifer_arma> You have to make a playlist, save it to disk somewhere. It should have absolute paths in it and be in the .m3u format. Then you set a config item pointing at the playlist. I don't remember what the config item is, though. :/
[2023-09-14 23:44:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| You have to make a playlist, save it to disk somewhere. It should have absolute paths in it and be in the .m3u format. Then you set a config item pointing at the playlist. I don't remember what the config item is, though. :/
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[2023-09-15 08:19:49] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Spotify
[2023-09-15 08:19:49] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Spotify
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[2023-09-17 01:59:42] <Lucifer_arma> here's another wonderful function I wrote in my db module:
[2023-09-17 01:59:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| here's another wonderful function I wrote in my db module:
[2023-09-17 01:59:46] <Lucifer_arma> def NotWrittenAtAll():
[2023-09-17 01:59:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| def NotWrittenAtAll():
[2023-09-17 01:59:48] <Lucifer_arma> pass
[2023-09-17 01:59:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| pass
[2023-09-17 02:00:10] <Lucifer_arma> (there's a comment right over it saying what I intended to put there for me to remember what's supposed to be there)
[2023-09-17 02:00:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (there's a comment right over it saying what I intended to put there for me to remember what's supposed to be there)
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[2023-09-18 17:59:57] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:jfacas_Portugal| anyone to play a bit sumo?
[2023-09-18 17:59:58] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:jfacas_Portugal| anyone to play a bit sumo?
[2023-09-18 18:00:19] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:jfacas_Portugal| i need go sleep soon
[2023-09-18 18:00:20] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:jfacas_Portugal| i need go sleep soon
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[2023-09-20 20:32:05] <Lucifer_arma_> Well that's some progress. I've got a trading algorithm running in a simulation, and I believe the simulation is reasonable
[2023-09-20 20:32:07] <armagetronbridge> 06irc:Lucifer_arma_| Well that's some progress. I've got a trading algorithm running in a simulation, and I believe the simulation is reasonable
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[2023-09-23 02:19:38] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| #bringBackArby's5for5RoastBeefSandwhiches
[2023-09-23 02:19:39] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| #bringBackArby's5for5RoastBeefSandwhiches
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[2023-09-23 21:56:26] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
[2023-09-23 22:46:32] <Lucifer_arma> I think I found my database server
[2023-09-23 22:46:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think I found my database server
[2023-09-23 22:46:33] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Pi-Frequency-Development-Android12/dp/B0BN15SS83/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2EO6PQJQGH6QG&keywords=orange+pi&qid=1695523493&sprefix=orange+pi%2Caps%2C340&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
[2023-09-23 22:46:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.amazon.com/Orange-Pi-Frequency-Development-Android12/dp/B0BN15SS83/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?crid=2EO6PQJQGH6QG&keywords=orange+pi&qid=1695523493&sprefix=orange+pi%2Caps%2C340&sr=8-1-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&psc=1
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[2023-09-24 09:03:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh thhey're available again? They were out of stock for ages. I've been meanign to get one myself
[2023-09-24 09:03:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh thhey're available again? They were out of stock for ages. I've been meanign to get one myself
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[2023-09-24 21:14:39] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| do you guys know anything about the magic server that had the potions,rings,wands and spells?
[2023-09-24 21:14:40] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| do you guys know anything about the magic server that had the potions,rings,wands and spells?
[2023-09-24 21:14:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Happy Fun Time
[2023-09-24 21:14:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Happy Fun Time
[2023-09-24 21:15:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Later the Tanning Salon
[2023-09-24 21:15:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Later the Tanning Salon
[2023-09-24 21:15:15] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| yeah does that still run?
[2023-09-24 21:15:15] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| yeah does that still run?
[2023-09-24 21:15:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @tannermon11 what happened to the tanning salon rpg thing?
[2023-09-24 21:15:19] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @tannermon11 what happened to the tanning salon rpg thing?
[2023-09-24 21:15:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| HFT disappeared a while ago. It might be recoverable idk
[2023-09-24 21:15:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| HFT disappeared a while ago. It might be recoverable idk
[2023-09-24 21:16:54] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| okay i remember i used to be like level 1200+ but nobody else really played it
[2023-09-24 21:16:55] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| okay i remember i used to be like level 1200+ but nobody else really played it
[2023-09-24 21:17:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| A handful did, but the heyday was in... I wanna say 2008ish? Maybe later. Memory is a bit shot
[2023-09-24 21:17:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| A handful did, but the heyday was in... I wanna say 2008ish? Maybe later. Memory is a bit shot
[2023-09-24 21:18:48] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| yeah i would have played it more towards 2012-2014
[2023-09-24 21:18:48] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| yeah i would have played it more towards 2012-2014
[2023-09-24 21:21:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| At that point I think the regulars were mostly ducky (or drunk dunk), Lovebug perhaps, the guy who hosted Mud Puddle, Nelg once in a while, sometimes Meg. I think I popped in maybe a handful of times, but it was all fortress and sumo then. Yellow Sub and whatnot too.
[2023-09-24 21:21:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| speaking of, I think that's one of the servers I need to put back up, brb
[2023-09-24 21:21:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| At that point I think the regulars were mostly ducky (or drunk dunk), Lovebug perhaps, the guy who hosted Mud Puddle, Nelg once in a while, sometimes Meg. I think I popped in maybe a handful of times, but it was all fortress and sumo then. Yellow Sub and whatnot too.
[2023-09-24 21:21:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| speaking of, I think that's one of the servers I need to put back up, brb
[2023-09-24 21:21:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| o nvm I'm talking out my arse, that's already up
[2023-09-24 21:21:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| o nvm I'm talking out my arse, that's already up
[2023-09-24 21:21:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh its the US one
[2023-09-24 21:21:49] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh its the US one
[2023-09-24 21:21:49] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| i remember all of them i think lovebug gave me a couple brown potions
[2023-09-24 21:21:49] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| i remember all of them i think lovebug gave me a couple brown potions
[2023-09-24 21:29:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh @stonytarkk I think "The Bending Universe" is the modern reincarnation
[2023-09-24 21:29:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh @stonytarkk I think "The Bending Universe" is the modern reincarnation
[2023-09-24 21:33:49] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| oh okay thanks man
[2023-09-24 21:33:49] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:stonytarkk| oh okay thanks man
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[2023-09-24 23:53:32] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea i still have it running
[2023-09-24 23:53:33] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea i still have it running
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[2023-09-25 16:07:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:16| Don't know where to ask: Is there any knowledge of people using some kind or hacking to take perfect corners? In Yellow Submarine there's a guy who's able to take the perfect corner on other peoples line. Like it would be a hard grind, but just by taking the corner on the exact same spot. It seems it can be a lucky turn a few times, but he does one after eachother.
[2023-09-25 16:07:06] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:16| Don't know where to ask: Is there any knowledge of people using some kind or hacking to take perfect corners? In Yellow Submarine there's a guy who's able to take the perfect corner on other peoples line. Like it would be a hard grind, but just by taking the corner on the exact same spot. It seems it can be a lucky turn a few times, but he does one after eachother.
[2023-09-25 16:16:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:16| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1155961113691820164/screenshot_bigthomas2.mp4
[2023-09-25 16:16:47] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:16| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1155961113691820164/screenshot_bigthomas2.mp4
[2023-09-25 16:17:39] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:16| I made a screen recording of the guy doing the corners I mean
[2023-09-25 16:17:40] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:16| I made a screen recording of the guy doing the corners I mean
[2023-09-25 16:21:16] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| There was a "pt bot" made by swag at one point, yes
[2023-09-25 16:21:17] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| There was a "pt bot" made by swag at one point, yes
[2023-09-25 16:21:52] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| this just came up a few weeks ago actually
[2023-09-25 16:21:53] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| this just came up a few weeks ago actually
[2023-09-25 16:31:41] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| first one i've ever seen was magglass1, worked just like the clip, maybe they're back, heh
[2023-09-25 16:31:41] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| first one i've ever seen was magglass1, worked just like the clip, maybe they're back, heh
[2023-09-25 17:56:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:magi| Behavior seems a bit erratic to be a real player too imo
[2023-09-25 17:56:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:magi| Behavior seems a bit erratic to be a real player too imo
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[2023-09-25 22:50:42] <Lucifer_arma> @16: It wouldn't be too difficult to make that happen. Adding new keybinds is pretty easy, and code to follow the wall would be pretty easy too. It *is* an open source game, and this can all be done on the client
[2023-09-25 22:50:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @16: It wouldn't be too difficult to make that happen. Adding new keybinds is pretty easy, and code to follow the wall would be pretty easy too. It *is* an open source game, and this can all be done on the client
[2023-09-25 22:52:10] <Lucifer_arma> I didn't see anything special in that video. I've personally done everything in that video in that small period of time
[2023-09-25 22:52:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I didn't see anything special in that video. I've personally done everything in that video in that small period of time
[2023-09-25 22:55:23] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: I didn't realize they'd suffered from the supply shortages. I only just noticed that it came down in price to actually be competitive to the Pi, and the 8 cores, even though 4 of them are the older arch, plus the nvme ssd really make it look good for a database server
[2023-09-25 22:55:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: I didn't realize they'd suffered from the supply shortages. I only just noticed that it came down in price to actually be competitive to the Pi, and the 8 cores, even though 4 of them are the older arch, plus the nvme ssd really make it look good for a database server
[2023-09-25 22:56:02] <Lucifer_arma> Used to be the orange pi's were $250+ and it'd be the same price to get a more powerful amd64 machine in an itx case :)
[2023-09-25 22:56:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Used to be the orange pi's were $250+ and it'd be the same price to get a more powerful amd64 machine in an itx case :)
[2023-09-25 22:57:14] <Lucifer_arma> but 8 cores at 2.6GHZ (or is it 2.8?) is fine for me, since the ssd isn't on the USB sharing bandwidth with ethernet.
[2023-09-25 22:57:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but 8 cores at 2.6GHZ (or is it 2.8?) is fine for me, since the ssd isn't on the USB sharing bandwidth with ethernet.
[2023-09-25 22:58:07] <Lucifer_arma> and I can offset some of the costs by considering the hard drive to be an upgrade to my laptop and move the laptop ssd to the orange pi
[2023-09-25 22:58:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and I can offset some of the costs by considering the hard drive to be an upgrade to my laptop and move the laptop ssd to the orange pi
[2023-09-25 22:59:16] <Lucifer_arma> now I just need to find the money for it. :)
[2023-09-25 22:59:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now I just need to find the money for it. :)
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[2023-09-26 10:49:54] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya there was either a shortage, or a run on supplies and the price shot through the roof. It was about eighty quid all in for a while, and then next time I looked it was going for £150 or more.
[2023-09-26 10:50:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya there was either a shortage, or a run on supplies and the price shot through the roof. It was about eighty quid all in for a while, and then next time I looked it was going for £150 or more.
[2023-09-26 15:15:33] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:ppotter| Never really saw magglass1, but there was a player from Cheers called Paradox that made one circa 2008, it moved a lot like the one in 16's clip
[2023-09-26 15:15:33] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:ppotter| Never really saw magglass1, but there was a player from Cheers called Paradox that made one circa 2008, it moved a lot like the one in 16's clip
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[2023-09-26 19:16:03] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-09-26 19:16:34] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-09-26 20:10:40] <Lucifer_arma> talk about old habits. I came here to use an irc bot's calculator, but the bot hasn't been here in a loooong time
[2023-09-26 20:10:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| talk about old habits. I came here to use an irc bot's calculator, but the bot hasn't been here in a loooong time
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[2023-09-27 00:13:28] <Lucifer_arma> ds9 did something for Worf that 7 seasons of TNG couldn't do. They made him an actual badass
[2023-09-27 00:13:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ds9 did something for Worf that 7 seasons of TNG couldn't do. They made him an actual badass
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[2023-09-27 08:56:38] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| :o tanner?
[2023-09-27 08:56:38] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| :o tanner?
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[2023-09-27 09:22:11] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| 👋 '
[2023-09-27 09:22:11] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| 👋 '
[2023-09-27 09:22:32] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| 👋
[2023-09-27 09:22:32] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| 👋
[2023-09-27 09:23:46] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Holy shit it's been like a decade maybe
[2023-09-27 09:23:46] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Holy shit it's been like a decade maybe
[2023-09-27 09:23:48] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| How are you?
[2023-09-27 09:23:49] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| How are you?
[2023-09-27 09:24:16] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| it's been a bit, doing good just chugging also, what about u
[2023-09-27 09:24:16] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| it's been a bit, doing good just chugging also, what about u
[2023-09-27 09:24:24] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| I think I went by Nisarg when I played in tanning salon
[2023-09-27 09:24:25] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| I think I went by Nisarg when I played in tanning salon
[2023-09-27 09:25:04] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| mm yea i remember ur that name also
[2023-09-27 09:25:05] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| mm yea i remember ur that name also
[2023-09-27 09:25:38] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| I'm doing well, just happy to exist
[2023-09-27 09:25:39] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| I'm doing well, just happy to exist
[2023-09-27 09:27:02] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| 🙂 i was just about to go to bed but i saw the mention ^^
[2023-09-27 09:27:02] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| 🙂 i was just about to go to bed but i saw the mention ^^
[2023-09-27 09:27:50] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Oo ok gn!
[2023-09-27 09:27:50] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Oo ok gn!
[2023-09-27 09:28:06] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| u get on arma recently?
[2023-09-27 09:28:06] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| u get on arma recently?
[2023-09-27 09:28:16] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Yeah! I play pickup here and there
[2023-09-27 09:28:17] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Yeah! I play pickup here and there
[2023-09-27 09:28:40] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Wbu
[2023-09-27 09:28:40] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Wbu
[2023-09-27 09:31:02] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea i was on recently just did some minor stuff with my script. also just looked at my join date to realize again how long ago i first started ._.
[2023-09-27 09:31:02] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea i was on recently just did some minor stuff with my script. also just looked at my join date to realize again how long ago i first started ._.
[2023-09-27 09:34:01] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| :o
[2023-09-27 09:34:02] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| :o
[2023-09-27 13:20:53] <Z-Man> Sweet, GitLab have macOS runners (aka build machines) now, about time. In beta, with Apple Silicon CPUs, and Homebrew available. I might just try them out.
[2023-09-27 13:20:53] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Sweet, GitLab have macOS runners (aka build machines) now, about time. In beta, with Apple Silicon CPUs, and Homebrew available. I might just try them out.
[2023-09-27 13:21:52] <Z-Man> https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/ci/runners/saas/macos_saas_runner.html Found them while browsing their shared runners :)
[2023-09-27 13:21:53] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| https://docs.gitlab.com/ee/ci/runners/saas/macos_saas_runner.html Found them while browsing their shared runners :)
[2023-09-27 13:26:49] <Z-Man> Oh, and you can have different images for different jobs. Whoops. That could simplify our builds a lot. Right now, I start out with the same image, than use some hackery to run the job in the actual image it needs (so steam/windows/linux 32 or 64 bit).
[2023-09-27 13:26:50] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Oh, and you can have different images for different jobs. Whoops. That could simplify our builds a lot. Right now, I start out with the same image, than use some hackery to run the job in the actual image it needs (so steam/windows/linux 32 or 64 bit).
[2023-09-27 13:31:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oooh does this mean automated pipeline?
[2023-09-27 13:31:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oooh does this mean automated pipeline?
[2023-09-27 13:34:13] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah. I mean, we already have one, it's just that for the mac builds, my mac needs to be awake, which mostly is not much of a problem, it just leads to temporary and fixable fails with alert email when it is not.
[2023-09-27 13:34:13] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah. I mean, we already have one, it's just that for the mac builds, my mac needs to be awake, which mostly is not much of a problem, it just leads to temporary and fixable fails with alert email when it is not.
[2023-09-27 13:34:37] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Also, every macOS update I need to do something to make virtualBox work again.
[2023-09-27 13:34:37] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Also, every macOS update I need to do something to make virtualBox work again.
[2023-09-27 13:34:41] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Like now.
[2023-09-27 13:34:41] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Like now.
[2023-09-27 14:06:33] <Z-Man> Huh, fixed itself.
[2023-09-27 14:06:33] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Huh, fixed itself.
[2023-09-27 14:29:26] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| it's SPOOPY TIME SOON
[2023-09-27 14:29:26] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| it's SPOOPY TIME SOON
[2023-09-27 15:48:08] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| I don't feel qualified to comment on that.
[2023-09-27 15:48:08] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| I don't feel qualified to comment on that.
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[2023-09-29 00:02:49] <Lucifer_arma> oops. I forgot to start the scheduler when I rebooted. Now it's updating the database while I'm trying to work. Oops.
[2023-09-29 00:02:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oops. I forgot to start the scheduler when I rebooted. Now it's updating the database while I'm trying to work. Oops.
[2023-09-29 00:04:12] <Lucifer_arma> Good thing I'm just designing tables, otherwise my laptop's borderline usability state would drive me nuts
[2023-09-29 00:04:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Good thing I'm just designing tables, otherwise my laptop's borderline usability state would drive me nuts
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[2023-09-29 01:43:55] <Lucifer_arma> ping
[2023-09-29 01:43:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ping
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[2023-09-29 02:54:38] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| pong
[2023-09-29 02:54:39] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| pong
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[2023-09-29 11:59:34] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:magi| Happy save the @justkoala day
[2023-09-29 11:59:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:magi| Happy save the @justkoala day
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[2023-09-30 22:55:20] -!- weber.oftc.net set mode #armagetron +nt
[2023-09-30 22:55:20] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-09-30 22:56:22] -!- cadmium.libera.chat set mode #armagetron +nt
[2023-09-30 22:56:22] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
DISCLAIMER: These logs of public chat may contain some content which may not be appropriate for all audiences. Use at your own risk.
Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
Format changes at: 2015-08-25, 2017-02-20, and 2020-03-23. Times (2015 and later) should be Eastern.
• Website was created by nelg
• Design:
» Layout is loosely based on an old design by Durf.
» Icons on the tools page were originally by Royce, new icons added will try to follow some of the design language.
» Various other icon selections include icons from Crystal, crystalsvg, oxygen, and breeze icon themes.
» Other icons: fontawesome
is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
Gridder
.