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[2023-11-01 06:58:35] -!- larich.oftc.net set mode #armagetron +nt
[2023-11-01 06:58:35] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-11-01 09:32:58] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Hello
[2023-11-01 09:32:59] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Hello
[2023-11-01 09:34:08] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| sooo.... I recently went to re download armagetron and I found out it had been launched on steam as retrocycles, I'm so upset i missed the launch
[2023-11-01 09:34:08] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| sooo.... I recently went to re download armagetron and I found out it had been launched on steam as retrocycles, I'm so upset i missed the launch
[2023-11-01 09:34:33] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| did anyone here play Wildcat from 2010-2016
[2023-11-01 09:34:34] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| did anyone here play Wildcat from 2010-2016
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[2023-11-01 09:51:17] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Some of the yellow sub players or df players might have played wildcat once in a while, they're here
[2023-11-01 09:51:18] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Some of the yellow sub players or df players might have played wildcat once in a while, they're here
[2023-11-01 09:52:32] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Lucifer_arma if you get a hot minute, watch a series called "Endeavour". It's about an early Morse when he's still a DC and subsequently a DS, and its done fantastically well.
[2023-11-01 09:52:33] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Lucifer_arma if you get a hot minute, watch a series called "Endeavour". It's about an early Morse when he's still a DC and subsequently a DS, and its done fantastically well.
[2023-11-01 09:53:03] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Oh I know some yellow sub players like Shy' Fog Radikalabnormal , I also know like one sumo player Karaas/pre/koala are they here?
[2023-11-01 09:53:03] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Oh I know some yellow sub players like Shy' Fog Radikalabnormal , I also know like one sumo player Karaas/pre/koala are they here?
[2023-11-01 09:53:15] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| well fog was a wildcat player who went to yellow sub
[2023-11-01 09:53:15] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| well fog was a wildcat player who went to yellow sub
[2023-11-01 09:53:37] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Karas and Koala are differnet people lmao
[2023-11-01 09:53:37] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Karas and Koala are differnet people lmao
[2023-11-01 09:53:42] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Koala == pre
[2023-11-01 09:53:43] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| Koala == pre
[2023-11-01 09:53:46] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| oh for real
[2023-11-01 09:53:47] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| oh for real
[2023-11-01 09:53:47] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| @justkoala
[2023-11-01 09:53:47] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| @justkoala
[2023-11-01 09:53:52] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| its been a long time hahaa
[2023-11-01 09:53:52] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| its been a long time hahaa
[2023-11-01 09:54:02] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| ya Karas hasn't shown up in a while
[2023-11-01 09:54:02] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| ya Karas hasn't shown up in a while
[2023-11-01 09:54:22] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| there's another tron discord, he might actually be in there
[2023-11-01 09:54:22] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| there's another tron discord, he might actually be in there
[2023-11-01 09:54:28] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| but he's a little wild
[2023-11-01 09:54:28] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:Jack Skellingquent| but he's a little wild
[2023-11-01 10:25:47] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| I remember him being a bit of a troll.  
[2023-11-01 10:25:48] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| I remember him being a bit of a troll.  
[2023-11-01 10:25:48] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Well if anyone remembers the wildcat 2005-2016 scene let me know I'd love to have a reunion 
[2023-11-01 10:25:48] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Well if anyone remembers the wildcat 2005-2016 scene let me know I'd love to have a reunion 
[2023-11-01 10:25:49] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| If Tade,Craze,Awen T, Clime,Fog, Invac, Nova, Andrei, Wildcat, Vrmm, Hylix, Tini, Vilmak,Noah,Peat (server admin) and any other wildcatters are here  the #1 immortal 42Sand42 is back!
[2023-11-01 10:25:50] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| If Tade,Craze,Awen T, Clime,Fog, Invac, Nova, Andrei, Wildcat, Vrmm, Hylix, Tini, Vilmak,Noah,Peat (server admin) and any other wildcatters are here  the #1 immortal 42Sand42 is back!
[2023-11-01 10:25:51] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Lets play some Wildcat Lagless soon!
[2023-11-01 10:25:51] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| Lets play some Wildcat Lagless soon!
[2023-11-01 10:49:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @abcd0826
[2023-11-01 10:49:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @abcd0826
[2023-11-01 10:49:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I haven't seen peat in a long time. He used to keep a user presence in IRC but after freenode died I don't think he updated
[2023-11-01 10:49:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I haven't seen peat in a long time. He used to keep a user presence in IRC but after freenode died I don't think he updated
[2023-11-01 10:49:50] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh also @clime
[2023-11-01 10:49:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh also @clime
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[2023-11-01 13:18:20] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-11-01 13:18:22] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-11-01 13:18:38] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-11-01 16:14:31] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-11-01 16:15:19] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2023-11-01 18:10:50] <Lucifer_arma> no, pretty sure we lost karas in the move from freenode
[2023-11-01 18:10:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, pretty sure we lost karas in the move from freenode
[2023-11-01 18:11:12] <Lucifer_arma> I remember bumping him specifically, and getting nothing
[2023-11-01 18:11:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I remember bumping him specifically, and getting nothing
[2023-11-01 18:17:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| He was here in the discord for a while
[2023-11-01 18:17:49] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| He was here in the discord for a while
[2023-11-01 18:18:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Peat, though, is long gone I think
[2023-11-01 18:18:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Peat, though, is long gone I think
[2023-11-01 18:27:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:magi| Karas occasionally pops his head in here or on Tron, usually when he's intoxicated and bored
[2023-11-01 18:27:29] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:magi| Karas occasionally pops his head in here or on Tron, usually when he's intoxicated and bored
[2023-11-01 18:46:19] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| has anyone seen dukevin lately?
[2023-11-01 18:46:20] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| has anyone seen dukevin lately?
[2023-11-01 18:46:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya why
[2023-11-01 18:46:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya why
[2023-11-01 18:47:01] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| i need him to put hft back up
[2023-11-01 18:47:02] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| i need him to put hft back up
[2023-11-01 18:47:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| o mb I missed a couple machines
[2023-11-01 18:47:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| o mb I missed a couple machines
[2023-11-01 18:47:17] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I took over those machines
[2023-11-01 18:47:17] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I took over those machines
[2023-11-01 18:48:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| which one of these is it?
[2023-11-01 18:48:05] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| which one of these is it?
[2023-11-01 18:48:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1169407541042741371/Screenshot_2023-03-11_at_10.10.06_AM.png?ex=65554aa4&is=6542d5a4&hm=17138a68c499973f4735dd5e7efa970a55bd473802c3a6d3ce37d250faa0cdb0&
[2023-11-01 18:48:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1169407541042741371/Screenshot_2023-03-11_at_10.10.06_AM.png?ex=65554aa4&is=6542d5a4&hm=17138a68c499973f4735dd5e7efa970a55bd473802c3a6d3ce37d250faa0cdb0&
[2023-11-01 18:49:06] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| none of them
[2023-11-01 18:49:07] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| none of them
[2023-11-01 18:49:14] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| its happy fun time
[2023-11-01 18:49:14] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| its happy fun time
[2023-11-01 18:49:17] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| OH
[2023-11-01 18:49:17] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| OH
[2023-11-01 18:49:23] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| right, ok, one sec
[2023-11-01 18:49:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| right, ok, one sec
[2023-11-01 18:49:30] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| ty
[2023-11-01 18:49:31] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| ty
[2023-11-01 18:50:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm not sure dukevin is kevin horner, come to think of it. I'll have a search and see what I can find. All else fails, the tanning salon is a very similar server
[2023-11-01 18:50:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm not sure dukevin is kevin horner, come to think of it. I'll have a search and see what I can find. All else fails, the tanning salon is a very similar server
[2023-11-01 18:51:12] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah not the same people
[2023-11-01 18:51:12] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah not the same people
[2023-11-01 18:51:15] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| kevin duke vs kevin horner
[2023-11-01 18:51:15] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| kevin duke vs kevin horner
[2023-11-01 18:51:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I am a silly man
[2023-11-01 18:51:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I am a silly man
[2023-11-01 18:51:58] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| theres probably a couple of copies of bad clones of HFT on kevinh's server tohugh
[2023-11-01 18:51:58] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| theres probably a couple of copies of bad clones of HFT on kevinh's server tohugh
[2023-11-01 18:52:14] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya I'm digging out hte tar.gz now
[2023-11-01 18:52:14] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya I'm digging out hte tar.gz now
[2023-11-01 18:52:26] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| watch me run out of memory though
[2023-11-01 18:52:26] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| watch me run out of memory though
[2023-11-01 18:52:37] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| shouldve used .zip 😛
[2023-11-01 18:52:37] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| shouldve used .zip 😛
[2023-11-01 18:52:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I needed proper compression, not a poor facsimile thereof!
[2023-11-01 18:52:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I needed proper compression, not a poor facsimile thereof!
[2023-11-01 18:53:17] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| ok .7z
[2023-11-01 18:53:17] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| ok .7z
[2023-11-01 18:53:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| yaknow I probably should have gone 7z
[2023-11-01 18:53:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| yaknow I probably should have gone 7z
[2023-11-01 18:53:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I might take the time to repack it at some point
[2023-11-01 18:53:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I might take the time to repack it at some point
[2023-11-01 18:54:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| yep outta memory
[2023-11-01 18:54:05] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| yep outta memory
[2023-11-01 18:54:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| 80gb tarball bleh
[2023-11-01 18:54:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| 80gb tarball bleh
[2023-11-01 18:54:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I will, one day, stick it on a provisioned machine and do it properly
[2023-11-01 18:54:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I will, one day, stick it on a provisioned machine and do it properly
[2023-11-01 18:55:32] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| 80 gigs?! i think my copy was only 5 or 6 gigs
[2023-11-01 18:55:33] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| 80 gigs?! i think my copy was only 5 or 6 gigs
[2023-11-01 18:55:39] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| my backups rather
[2023-11-01 18:55:40] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| my backups rather
[2023-11-01 18:55:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I imaged the entire machine
[2023-11-01 18:55:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I imaged the entire machine
[2023-11-01 18:55:45] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| ahh
[2023-11-01 18:55:45] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| ahh
[2023-11-01 18:56:13] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| overkill, but since I han't seen it before I figured I'd end up missing something in some dir somewhere
[2023-11-01 18:56:13] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| overkill, but since I han't seen it before I figured I'd end up missing something in some dir somewhere
[2023-11-01 18:56:26] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah makes sense
[2023-11-01 18:56:26] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah makes sense
[2023-11-01 19:14:24] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| at least the problem is memory and not a corrupted drive
[2023-11-01 19:14:25] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| at least the problem is memory and not a corrupted drive
[2023-11-01 19:14:39] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| bc thats what i have.
[2023-11-01 19:14:39] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| bc thats what i have.
[2023-11-01 19:14:47] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| it makes images very colorful
[2023-11-01 19:14:48] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| it makes images very colorful
[2023-11-01 19:20:24] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| the problem is not that i want to play exactly (although i would freaking love to), but that dukevin helped me make an rx account, which is somehow linked to happy fun time.
[2023-11-01 19:20:25] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| the problem is not that i want to play exactly (although i would freaking love to), but that dukevin helped me make an rx account, which is somehow linked to happy fun time.
[2023-11-01 19:20:30] <Lucifer_arma> well, I'm story complete, but I don't like the ending
[2023-11-01 19:20:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, I'm story complete, but I don't like the ending
[2023-11-01 19:23:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @vedanb rx has been dead for years afaik. If its down now, its probably gone permanently. Best just make an @forums login
[2023-11-01 19:23:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @vedanb rx has been dead for years afaik. If its down now, its probably gone permanently. Best just make an @forums login
[2023-11-01 19:23:10] <Lucifer_arma> I like the component parts, but I don't like how it came together.  I think I'm going to do something else and let it swim around in my head for a few minutes
[2023-11-01 19:23:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I like the component parts, but I don't like how it came together.  I think I'm going to do something else and let it swim around in my head for a few minutes
[2023-11-01 19:23:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma peer review?
[2023-11-01 19:23:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma peer review?
[2023-11-01 19:23:50] <Lucifer_arma> not yet, it's a terrible ending.  The only use of peer review right now would be for you to confirm the ending sucks ;)
[2023-11-01 19:23:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| not yet, it's a terrible ending.  The only use of peer review right now would be for you to confirm the ending sucks ;)
[2023-11-01 19:24:23] <Lucifer_arma> For a story this size, it's important that the ending leave a reader wanting more, and this one will leave a reader wondering why they wasted their time reading it
[2023-11-01 19:24:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| For a story this size, it's important that the ending leave a reader wanting more, and this one will leave a reader wondering why they wasted their time reading it
[2023-11-01 19:24:45] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| i had dukevin make me an account bc i couldnt make a @forums login for some reason
[2023-11-01 19:24:45] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| i had dukevin make me an account bc i couldnt make a @forums login for some reason
[2023-11-01 19:25:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| try again maybe?
[2023-11-01 19:25:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| try again maybe?
[2023-11-01 19:25:29] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I'm going to do something else, maybe eat something, watch some psych, and then take another crack at it.
[2023-11-01 19:25:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, I'm going to do something else, maybe eat something, watch some psych, and then take another crack at it.
[2023-11-01 19:25:44] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| where do i go again? i cant remember
[2023-11-01 19:25:44] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| where do i go again? i cant remember
[2023-11-01 19:25:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://forums3.armagetronad.net/
[2023-11-01 19:25:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://forums3.armagetronad.net/
[2023-11-01 19:26:04] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| ty
[2023-11-01 19:26:04] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| ty
[2023-11-01 19:26:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2701582/ ;)
[2023-11-01 19:26:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2701582/ ;)
[2023-11-01 19:27:55] <Lucifer_arma> One of these days :)
[2023-11-01 19:27:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| One of these days :)
[2023-11-01 19:28:22] <armagetronbridge> 10discord:justkoala| I feel offended. But welcome back sand 😎
[2023-11-01 19:28:24] <armagetron-bridge> 10discord:justkoala| I feel offended. But welcome back sand 😎
[2023-11-01 19:28:32] <Lucifer_arma> I need a partner to watch mysteries with.  I haven't had one since my divorce, and she wasn't a great mystery partner anyway
[2023-11-01 19:28:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I need a partner to watch mysteries with.  I haven't had one since my divorce, and she wasn't a great mystery partner anyway
[2023-11-01 19:29:11] <Lucifer_arma> she got mad when I started solving the case by just guessing the guest star when the guest star was from a sci-fi show I loved
[2023-11-01 19:29:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| she got mad when I started solving the case by just guessing the guest star when the guest star was from a sci-fi show I loved
[2023-11-01 20:03:21] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| 😄
[2023-11-01 20:03:22] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| 😄
[2023-11-01 20:03:38] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:saanddisc| mb
[2023-11-01 20:03:40] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:saanddisc| mb
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[2023-11-01 21:01:06] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| this is completely unrelated to tron, but... windows narrator won't turn of, somebody please help me
[2023-11-01 21:01:07] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| this is completely unrelated to tron, but... windows narrator won't turn of, somebody please help me
[2023-11-01 21:01:27] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| the shortcut won't work, and the app won't open
[2023-11-01 21:01:28] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| the shortcut won't work, and the app won't open
[2023-11-01 21:04:09] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| hi
[2023-11-01 21:04:09] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| hi
[2023-11-01 21:04:24] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| try from the login screen
[2023-11-01 21:04:24] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| try from the login screen
[2023-11-01 21:04:29] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| are you in oobe?
[2023-11-01 21:04:29] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| are you in oobe?
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[2023-11-01 21:40:40] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| oobe?
[2023-11-01 21:40:41] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| oobe?
[2023-11-01 21:42:20] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| nvm it worked.
[2023-11-01 21:42:20] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| nvm it worked.
[2023-11-01 21:42:23] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| thanks
[2023-11-01 21:42:23] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| thanks
[2023-11-01 23:01:17] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I wrote a better ending and cleared out the todos.  I have a finished rough draft.
[2023-11-01 23:01:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I wrote a better ending and cleared out the todos.  I have a finished rough draft.
[2023-11-01 23:36:01] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:vedanb| ok it just turned itself on again.
[2023-11-01 23:36:01] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:vedanb| ok it just turned itself on again.
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[2023-11-02 09:38:15] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| In an astonishing moment of serendipity, I have randomly been cnnected with the person who built the linux kernel for the Nokia Lumia. Ended up chatting for half an hour before I even remembered why I called.
[2023-11-02 09:38:15] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| In an astonishing moment of serendipity, I have randomly been cnnected with the person who built the linux kernel for the Nokia Lumia. Ended up chatting for half an hour before I even remembered why I called.
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[2023-11-02 15:48:00] -!- zinc.libera.chat set mode #armagetron +nt
[2023-11-02 15:48:00] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-11-02 15:48:55] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-11-02 15:48:57] -!- larich.oftc.net set mode #armagetron +nt
[2023-11-02 15:48:57] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
[2023-11-02 18:11:24] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:gaddafi6367| https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJEX4xsU/
[2023-11-02 18:11:24] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:gaddafi6367| I know that has nothing to do with the server but this is verry important
[2023-11-02 18:11:24] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:gaddafi6367| https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGJEX4xsU/
[2023-11-02 18:11:25] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:gaddafi6367| I know that has nothing to do with the server but this is verry important
[2023-11-02 18:38:36] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| yay propaganda
[2023-11-02 18:38:36] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| yay propaganda
[2023-11-02 20:26:04] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:vedanb_80227| how do i change my player color in the console? my dad changed the internet filters again, so now the armagetron website is blocked now, and i cant find the commands anywhere else.
[2023-11-02 20:26:04] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:vedanb_80227| how do i change my player color in the console? my dad changed the internet filters again, so now the armagetron website is blocked now, and i cant find the commands anywhere else.
[2023-11-02 20:32:30] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Jam| color_r_1 #
[2023-11-02 20:32:30] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Jam| color_r_1 #
[2023-11-02 20:32:36] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Jam| colro_b_1 #
[2023-11-02 20:32:37] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Jam| colro_b_1 #
[2023-11-02 20:32:52] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Jam| color_g_1 #
[2023-11-02 20:32:53] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Jam| color_g_1 #
[2023-11-02 20:33:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Set `BUG_COLOR_OVERFLOW` to `1` if you want different colours for cycle and tail.
[2023-11-02 20:33:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Set `BUG_COLOR_OVERFLOW` to `1` if you want different colours for cycle and tail.
[2023-11-02 20:33:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Use `COLOR_R_1` through `COLOR_R_4`, substituting `B` or `G` for red, green and blue respectively. 
[2023-11-02 20:33:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Use `COLOR_R_1` through `COLOR_R_4`, substituting `B` or `G` for red, green and blue respectively. 
[2023-11-02 20:33:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| There is also `PLAYER_RANDOM_COLOR 1` for a randomised colour, but that might be server-only
[2023-11-02 20:33:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| There is also `PLAYER_RANDOM_COLOR 1` for a randomised colour, but that might be server-only
[2023-11-02 20:34:14] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| each colour is a hex code, if I remember correctly, so `AA` through `FF` and so on
[2023-11-02 20:34:14] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| each colour is a hex code, if I remember correctly, so `AA` through `FF` and so on
[2023-11-02 20:34:22] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Jam| delinquent much more descriptive than me
[2023-11-02 20:34:23] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Jam| delinquent much more descriptive than me
[2023-11-02 20:34:44] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Jam| you can use numbers dont have to use Aa-Ff
[2023-11-02 20:34:44] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Jam| you can use numbers dont have to use Aa-Ff
[2023-11-02 20:34:53] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Jam| 0-32
[2023-11-02 20:34:53] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Jam| 0-32
[2023-11-02 20:35:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.colorhexa.com/
[2023-11-02 20:35:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.colorhexa.com/
[2023-11-02 20:56:29] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:vedanb_80227| thank you
[2023-11-02 20:56:29] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:vedanb_80227| thank you
[2023-11-02 21:03:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the bug is a default
[2023-11-02 21:03:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the bug is a default
[2023-11-02 21:03:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| player_random_color might be sty+ap+cp only?
[2023-11-02 21:03:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| player_random_color might be sty+ap+cp only?
[2023-11-02 21:11:52] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sty+ct+ap*
[2023-11-02 21:11:52] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sty+ct+ap*
[2023-11-02 21:12:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh player_random_color works
[2023-11-02 21:12:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh player_random_color works
[2023-11-02 21:20:50] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:vedanb_80227| I can't really comprehend any of these technical-ish terms but... ok
[2023-11-02 21:20:50] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:vedanb_80227| I can't really comprehend any of these technical-ish terms but... ok
[2023-11-02 21:27:48] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sty+ct+ap is the most used branch of armagetronad
[2023-11-02 21:27:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sty+ct+ap is the most used branch of armagetronad
[2023-11-02 21:27:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| on servers
[2023-11-02 21:27:54] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| on servers
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[2023-11-03 03:39:49] <Lucifer_arma> Can somebody invent something where I can just project the music I hear in my head to my computer and it'll record?
[2023-11-03 03:39:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Can somebody invent something where I can just project the music I hear in my head to my computer and it'll record?
[2023-11-03 03:40:17] <Lucifer_arma> and no, I don't mean "plug in a mixer, plug in a microphone, play an isntrument into the microphone"  I already have those inventions.
[2023-11-03 03:40:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and no, I don't mean "plug in a mixer, plug in a microphone, play an isntrument into the microphone"  I already have those inventions.
[2023-11-03 03:40:56] <Lucifer_arma> it would just be so much easier to write music if I didn't have to do any of that pesky playing instruments garbage
[2023-11-03 03:40:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it would just be so much easier to write music if I didn't have to do any of that pesky playing instruments garbage
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[2023-11-03 09:50:45] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/scientists-translate-brain-activity-into-music glhf
[2023-11-03 09:50:46] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/scientists-translate-brain-activity-into-music glhf
[2023-11-03 09:53:11] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also there's an FOSS for everything: https://braindecode.org/stable/index.html
[2023-11-03 09:53:12] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also there's an FOSS for everything: https://braindecode.org/stable/index.html
[2023-11-03 09:55:03] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://pubs.aip.org/asa/jasa/article/151/6/3685/2838268/A-method-to-convert-neural-signals-into-sound
[2023-11-03 09:55:03] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://pubs.aip.org/asa/jasa/article/151/6/3685/2838268/A-method-to-convert-neural-signals-into-sound
[2023-11-03 09:55:19] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| The future is now
[2023-11-03 09:55:19] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| The future is now
[2023-11-03 10:06:14] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, while we're at it:  https://imotions.com/blog/learning/product-guides/eeg-headset-prices/
[2023-11-03 10:06:14] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, while we're at it:  https://imotions.com/blog/learning/product-guides/eeg-headset-prices/
[2023-11-03 10:07:32] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Oh and I remembered:  there's also an open source DIY-kit https://www.opensourceimaging.org/project/openbci/
[2023-11-03 10:07:32] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Oh and I remembered:  there's also an open source DIY-kit https://www.opensourceimaging.org/project/openbci/
[2023-11-03 10:08:34] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/hw/
[2023-11-03 10:08:34] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://openeeg.sourceforge.net/doc/hw/
[2023-11-03 10:09:52] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, if you were in Germany I'd build and record with you
[2023-11-03 10:09:52] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, if you were in Germany I'd build and record with you
[2023-11-03 10:12:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ohh neat
[2023-11-03 10:12:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ohh neat
[2023-11-03 10:13:39] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, software isn't important as the mind is faster mastering output proof: mind controlled prosthetics
[2023-11-03 10:13:40] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, software isn't important as the mind is faster mastering output proof: mind controlled prosthetics
[2023-11-03 10:18:01] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, a music recommendation for this hitech stuff: 
[2023-11-03 10:18:02] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also, a music recommendation for this hitech stuff: 
[2023-11-03 10:18:02] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUSWqNFEabI
[2023-11-03 10:18:02] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUSWqNFEabI
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[2023-11-03 12:33:36] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
[2023-11-03 13:02:16] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Cmon deli, the brain is the coolest instrument besides a lazer harp
[2023-11-03 13:02:16] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Cmon deli, the brain is the coolest instrument besides a lazer harp
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[2023-11-03 13:15:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| haha
[2023-11-03 13:15:50] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| haha
[2023-11-03 13:16:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| what stereo said
[2023-11-03 13:16:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| what stereo said
[2023-11-03 13:16:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the brain is a fucking pain
[2023-11-03 13:16:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the brain is a fucking pain
[2023-11-03 13:16:34] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| midi keyboard is an instrument
[2023-11-03 13:16:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| midi keyboard is an instrument
[2023-11-03 13:16:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma: no way around plugging cables on the computer, it has to enter somehow
[2023-11-03 13:16:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma: no way around plugging cables on the computer, it has to enter somehow
[2023-11-03 13:19:09] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| @northernscrubever tried https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohygiene ?
[2023-11-03 13:19:10] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| @northernscrubever tried https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychohygiene ?
[2023-11-03 13:21:48] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| not available in english, you can translate it tho
[2023-11-03 13:21:48] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| not available in english, you can translate it tho
[2023-11-03 13:30:13] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| that concept is part of the driving force behind cognitive behavioural therapy
[2023-11-03 13:30:14] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| that concept is part of the driving force behind cognitive behavioural therapy
[2023-11-03 13:32:08] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| ic
[2023-11-03 13:32:08] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| ic
[2023-11-03 13:34:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| its a bit hti and miss, some of the nomenclature leans a bit between languages. There's a bit of overlap between CBT and what you woud probably call Psychotherapie, but there's elements of the original concept in there too. Resilience is somewhat separate I think, depending on the subject matter
[2023-11-03 13:34:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| its a bit hti and miss, some of the nomenclature leans a bit between languages. There's a bit of overlap between CBT and what you woud probably call Psychotherapie, but there's elements of the original concept in there too. Resilience is somewhat separate I think, depending on the subject matter
[2023-11-03 13:58:23] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| have never heard my partner mention that term during her psych/CBT phd
[2023-11-03 13:58:23] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| have never heard my partner mention that term during her psych/CBT phd
[2023-11-03 13:58:31] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| psychopathology a lot but not the opposite term
[2023-11-03 13:58:31] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| psychopathology a lot but not the opposite term
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[2023-11-03 14:06:12] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-11-03 14:07:08] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-11-03 14:07:10] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-11-03 22:43:29] <Lucifer_arma> We use the phrase "mental hygiene" for the general case, but get more specific, like "sleep hygiene"
[2023-11-03 22:43:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| We use the phrase "mental hygiene" for the general case, but get more specific, like "sleep hygiene"
[2023-11-03 22:43:55] <Lucifer_arma> sometimes mental health hygiene, which doesn't make sense, and mental health and mental hygiene are sometimes used interchangeably, even they clearly aren't interchangeable
[2023-11-03 22:43:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| sometimes mental health hygiene, which doesn't make sense, and mental health and mental hygiene are sometimes used interchangeably, even they clearly aren't interchangeable
[2023-11-03 22:46:44] <Lucifer_arma> @stereo_system: We can still record together/jam together.  It's just a matter of working out latency issues
[2023-11-03 22:46:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @stereo_system: We can still record together/jam together.  It's just a matter of working out latency issues
[2023-11-03 22:47:09] <Lucifer_arma> but there's no reason we couldn't send tracks back and forth.  My main issue is finding time for it, and I'm missing a couple of instruments.
[2023-11-03 22:47:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but there's no reason we couldn't send tracks back and forth.  My main issue is finding time for it, and I'm missing a couple of instruments.
[2023-11-03 22:47:16] <Lucifer_arma> I need a bass guitar, and an electric guitar
[2023-11-03 22:47:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I need a bass guitar, and an electric guitar
[2023-11-03 22:47:52] <Lucifer_arma> I have an acoustic guitar, and with effects I could get some pretty neat sounds out of it.  I have an electronic drum kit, and if need be, I could use MIDI to make it into any drum sound I want
[2023-11-03 22:47:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I have an acoustic guitar, and with effects I could get some pretty neat sounds out of it.  I have an electronic drum kit, and if need be, I could use MIDI to make it into any drum sound I want
[2023-11-03 22:50:35] <Lucifer_arma> ALso:  https://xkcd.com/644/
[2023-11-03 22:50:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ALso:  https://xkcd.com/644/
[2023-11-03 23:32:37] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| interesting
[2023-11-03 23:32:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| interesting
[2023-11-03 23:33:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you could try sonobus for sharing audio
[2023-11-03 23:33:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you could try sonobus for sharing audio

Searching from 2023-11-04 00:00:00 to 2023-11-04 23:59:59.999999.
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[2023-11-04 00:13:03] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: I finally created a gitlab login
[2023-11-04 00:13:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: I finally created a gitlab login
[2023-11-04 00:13:08] <Lucifer_arma> it's my name, as usual
[2023-11-04 00:13:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's my name, as usual
[2023-11-04 01:21:25] <Lucifer_arma> doesn't seem to by anybody playing right now
[2023-11-04 01:21:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| doesn't seem to by anybody playing right now
[2023-11-04 01:24:29] <Lucifer_arma> is there a good music authoring program?
[2023-11-04 01:24:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| is there a good music authoring program?
[2023-11-04 01:40:41] <Lucifer_arma> I still want a tracker that has a sheet music editor, too
[2023-11-04 01:40:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I still want a tracker that has a sheet music editor, too
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[2023-11-04 13:16:47] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-11-04 13:16:49] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-11-04 13:16:52] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2023-11-04 13:33:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| re: "music authoring program", this is a "DAW", or "Digital Audio Workstation". I mentioned above, LMMS is a decent FOSS offering. There is probably a plugin that supports sheet music, and there's a common plugin standard that most DAWs work with. All you need therein is a MIDI keyboard - and if you have an old ipad or an old android tablet, you can use this with USB OTG and a mi <clipped message>
[2023-11-04 13:33:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| re: "music authoring program", this is a "DAW", or "Digital Audio Workstation". I mentioned above, LMMS is a decent FOSS offering. There is probably a plugin that supports sheet music, and there's a common plugin standard that most DAWs work with. All you need therein is a MIDI keyboard - and if you have an old ipad or an old android tablet, you can use this with USB OTG and a mi <clipped message>
[2023-11-04 13:33:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| di app to crate a makeshift one.
[2023-11-04 13:33:19] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| di app to crate a makeshift one.
[2023-11-04 13:33:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you have an ipad, I suggest you look into ROLI's virtual seaboard
[2023-11-04 13:33:38] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you have an ipad, I suggest you look into ROLI's virtual seaboard
[2023-11-04 13:57:09] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:anjo| logic has built-in sheet music conversion + editing. also is an industry standard and really user friendly
[2023-11-04 13:57:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:anjo| logic has built-in sheet music conversion + editing. also is an industry standard and really user friendly
[2023-11-04 14:02:26] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:anjo| it's also just a very intuitive, powerful, organized, and simple program. all the characterists you want to minimize effort and optimize your creative process
[2023-11-04 14:02:26] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:anjo| it's also just a very intuitive, powerful, organized, and simple program. all the characterists you want to minimize effort and optimize your creative process
[2023-11-04 14:02:46] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:anjo| stock plugins and instruments are also pretty damn good
[2023-11-04 14:02:46] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:anjo| stock plugins and instruments are also pretty damn good
[2023-11-04 14:10:11] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: Added the account I found as a guest for now, because I'm paranoid :) I'll upgrade you when you tell me I got the right one. By the way, I think if you add your @gmail address from the git/bzr logs, it retroactively credits your account with all contributions.
[2023-11-04 14:10:12] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: Added the account I found as a guest for now, because I'm paranoid :) I'll upgrade you when you tell me I got the right one. By the way, I think if you add your @gmail address from the git/bzr logs, it retroactively credits your account with all contributions.
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[2023-11-04 17:56:21] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, there's musescore or laborejo
[2023-11-04 17:56:21] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, there's musescore or laborejo
[2023-11-04 18:32:41] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| what did you think of the bending universe server lucifer?
[2023-11-04 18:32:41] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| what did you think of the bending universe server lucifer?
[2023-11-04 19:27:56] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| guru3_: maclover201 is requesting a username change here: https://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=318007#p318007
[2023-11-04 19:27:57] <Z-Man> guru3_: maclover201 is requesting a username change here: https://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?p=318007#p318007
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[2023-11-04 20:30:12] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| c'mon man. you know your problem is just time management. making music has never been easier than right now.
[2023-11-04 20:30:13] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| c'mon man. you know your problem is just time management. making music has never been easier than right now.
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[2023-11-04 21:52:28] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2023-11-04 22:41:32] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: you got the right one
[2023-11-04 22:41:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: you got the right one
[2023-11-04 22:42:10] <Lucifer_arma> @sinewav: I'm actually suffering a loss of instruments.  I sold my bass and all working guitars, so all I've got is an acoustic (and I don't really play acoustic) and a drumkit (which I don't need, strictly speaking, because I've got hydrogen)
[2023-11-04 22:42:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sinewav: I'm actually suffering a loss of instruments.  I sold my bass and all working guitars, so all I've got is an acoustic (and I don't really play acoustic) and a drumkit (which I don't need, strictly speaking, because I've got hydrogen)
[2023-11-04 22:43:16] <Lucifer_arma> and I'm wanting something where I can easily compose music.  There's a learning curve to using audacity + samples to make a complete song
[2023-11-04 22:43:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and I'm wanting something where I can easily compose music.  There's a learning curve to using audacity + samples to make a complete song
[2023-11-04 22:43:55] <Lucifer_arma> I found a bass that I want, and I may be about to order it (depends on how much available credit I have).  I also found a guitar I want, but it's $230+shipping, and I don't have that kind of money yet
[2023-11-04 22:43:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I found a bass that I want, and I may be about to order it (depends on how much available credit I have).  I also found a guitar I want, but it's $230+shipping, and I don't have that kind of money yet
[2023-11-04 22:44:21] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not hitting up a pawn shop again because every pawn shop instrument I've bought has needed work, and I've got a guitar that needs work where if I do the work, I'll have an electric guitar again
[2023-11-04 22:44:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not hitting up a pawn shop again because every pawn shop instrument I've bought has needed work, and I've got a guitar that needs work where if I do the work, I'll have an electric guitar again
[2023-11-04 22:44:54] <Lucifer_arma> but for about half the price of the new guitar, if I did the work on the one I have, I'd have a higher quality guitar
[2023-11-04 22:44:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but for about half the price of the new guitar, if I did the work on the one I have, I'd have a higher quality guitar
[2023-11-04 22:45:23] <Lucifer_arma> now, everything would change for me if I had a midi keyboard.  I can compose with a midi keyboard.
[2023-11-04 22:45:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now, everything would change for me if I had a midi keyboard.  I can compose with a midi keyboard.
[2023-11-04 22:46:32] <Lucifer_arma> so anyway, the last time I composed without recording, I used rosegarden, and it wasn't a great experience.  But one of the reasons I'm not in a hurry to do it again is because the wicked cool keyboard there used to be in the GUS midi sample set is unavailable now for some reason
[2023-11-04 22:46:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so anyway, the last time I composed without recording, I used rosegarden, and it wasn't a great experience.  But one of the reasons I'm not in a hurry to do it again is because the wicked cool keyboard there used to be in the GUS midi sample set is unavailable now for some reason
[2023-11-04 22:47:42] <Lucifer_arma> and as someone who *doesn't* play acoustic, setting up to record my acoustic guitar is a pain in the ass.  :/
[2023-11-04 22:47:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and as someone who *doesn't* play acoustic, setting up to record my acoustic guitar is a pain in the ass.  :/
[2023-11-04 22:48:09] <Lucifer_arma> maybe what I should do is work on some of this furniture I'm needing to build so I can setup my mixer and have something ready to go whenever the mood strikes
[2023-11-04 22:48:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| maybe what I should do is work on some of this furniture I'm needing to build so I can setup my mixer and have something ready to go whenever the mood strikes
[2023-11-04 22:48:46] <Lucifer_arma> maybe I should shop for a keyboard instead of a guitar
[2023-11-04 22:48:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| maybe I should shop for a keyboard instead of a guitar
[2023-11-04 22:58:34] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav: https://www.amazon.com/Donner-N-25-Controlle-Velocity-Sensitive-Production/dp/B0C1ZC45F5/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=midi+keyboard&qid=1699152540&sr=8-7
[2023-11-04 22:58:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav: https://www.amazon.com/Donner-N-25-Controlle-Velocity-Sensitive-Production/dp/B0C1ZC45F5/ref=sr_1_7?keywords=midi+keyboard&qid=1699152540&sr=8-7
[2023-11-04 22:58:51] <Lucifer_arma> for those of you who actually use keyboards, what do you think of this one?  It's tiny, but it's also only $40
[2023-11-04 22:58:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| for those of you who actually use keyboards, what do you think of this one?  It's tiny, but it's also only $40
[2023-11-04 23:02:02] <Lucifer_arma> @tannermon11: Is that the one with the RPG in it?  If it wasn't, and it's the one I think it was, I left because I couldn't figure out the point
[2023-11-04 23:02:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @tannermon11: Is that the one with the RPG in it?  If it wasn't, and it's the one I think it was, I left because I couldn't figure out the point
[2023-11-04 23:02:13] <Lucifer_arma> I thought hunt for red october had promise, but there weren't real people in it
[2023-11-04 23:02:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I thought hunt for red october had promise, but there weren't real people in it
[2023-11-04 23:32:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, maybe you could try a midi guitar keyboard
[2023-11-04 23:32:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, maybe you could try a midi guitar keyboard
[2023-11-04 23:33:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont get a midi controller, maybe get a midi keyboard
[2023-11-04 23:33:31] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont get a midi controller, maybe get a midi keyboard
[2023-11-04 23:33:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| or a sythetizer
[2023-11-04 23:33:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| or a sythetizer
[2023-11-04 23:33:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its a bit more expensive but worth it
[2023-11-04 23:33:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its a bit more expensive but worth it
[2023-11-04 23:33:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| without a computer midi controllers are paperweight
[2023-11-04 23:33:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| without a computer midi controllers are paperweight
[2023-11-04 23:34:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| or without a host that has instruments
[2023-11-04 23:34:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| or without a host that has instruments
[2023-11-04 23:58:59] <Lucifer_arma> I have a computer, though.
[2023-11-04 23:58:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I have a computer, though.
[2023-11-04 23:59:10] <Lucifer_arma> and if I could afford a full keyboard, I could buy a guitar
[2023-11-04 23:59:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and if I could afford a full keyboard, I could buy a guitar
[2023-11-04 23:59:40] <Lucifer_arma> if I had an unlimited budget, I'd find a luthier and have them finish the guitar I already own :)
[2023-11-04 23:59:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if I had an unlimited budget, I'd find a luthier and have them finish the guitar I already own :)

Searching from 2023-11-05 00:00:00 to 2023-11-05 23:59:59.999999.
Query completed in 0.56 seconds
[2023-11-05 00:02:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-05 00:02:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-05 00:03:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| that midi controller could be worth a try but i have my doubts on the keys quality and stuff
[2023-11-05 00:03:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| that midi controller could be worth a try but i have my doubts on the keys quality and stuff
[2023-11-05 00:03:47] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| try checking reviews on youtube Lucifer_arma
[2023-11-05 00:03:47] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| try checking reviews on youtube Lucifer_arma
[2023-11-05 00:04:38] <Lucifer_arma> I just need a decent input device.  Really, I'm considering maybe coloring keys on my keyboard and mapping them to piano keys and just using that
[2023-11-05 00:04:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I just need a decent input device.  Really, I'm considering maybe coloring keys on my keyboard and mapping them to piano keys and just using that
[2023-11-05 00:06:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| thats worse than a midi controller
[2023-11-05 00:06:53] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| thats worse than a midi controller
[2023-11-05 00:07:07] <Lucifer_arma> yes, yes it is
[2023-11-05 00:07:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yes, yes it is
[2023-11-05 00:07:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| many daws have options to use the computer keyboard as midi input
[2023-11-05 00:07:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| many daws have options to use the computer keyboard as midi input
[2023-11-05 00:07:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| audacity is going to be a bit painful to work with
[2023-11-05 00:07:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| audacity is going to be a bit painful to work with
[2023-11-05 00:08:08] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can only do audio there
[2023-11-05 00:08:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can only do audio there
[2023-11-05 00:08:11] <Lucifer_arma> audacity is great if you're using recorded tracks
[2023-11-05 00:08:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| audacity is great if you're using recorded tracks
[2023-11-05 00:08:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i guess
[2023-11-05 00:08:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i guess
[2023-11-05 00:08:22] <Lucifer_arma> I used to use ecasound to capture the tracks and audacity to master them
[2023-11-05 00:08:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I used to use ecasound to capture the tracks and audacity to master them
[2023-11-05 00:13:37] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| cool
[2023-11-05 00:13:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| cool
[2023-11-05 00:24:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea it's one with an rpg in it
[2023-11-05 00:24:11] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea it's one with an rpg in it
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[2023-11-05 01:23:40] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2023-11-05 01:53:08] <Lucifer_arma> I couldn't figure out how to do anything.  Does a level 1 have anything they can do?
[2023-11-05 01:53:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I couldn't figure out how to do anything.  Does a level 1 have anything they can do?
[2023-11-05 01:53:15] <Lucifer_arma> also, I wanted Xp's a little faster.  :)
[2023-11-05 01:53:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, I wanted Xp's a little faster.  :)
[2023-11-05 01:53:37] <Lucifer_arma> is there a reference somewhere?  I'd try again if I could make some instant chats for the special skills stuff
[2023-11-05 01:53:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| is there a reference somewhere?  I'd try again if I could make some instant chats for the special skills stuff
[2023-11-05 01:54:14] <Lucifer_arma> I liked the idea a lot.  I kept wondering "If I crash into the wall hard enough, will it split?  Is there a secret passage?"
[2023-11-05 01:54:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I liked the idea a lot.  I kept wondering "If I crash into the wall hard enough, will it split?  Is there a secret passage?"
[2023-11-05 01:54:43] <Lucifer_arma> also, you might consider using zones v2 for it (in 0.4) instead of what you're doing.  You can have arbitrarily shaped zones
[2023-11-05 01:54:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, you might consider using zones v2 for it (in 0.4) instead of what you're doing.  You can have arbitrarily shaped zones
[2023-11-05 01:54:50] <Lucifer_arma> different built-in effects
[2023-11-05 01:54:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| different built-in effects
[2023-11-05 01:00:36] <Lucifer_arma> also, on a side note, is there a list somewhere of what's in sty+ct+ap?  Especially a list of what's in there that's *not* in 0.4?
[2023-11-05 01:00:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, on a side note, is there a list somewhere of what's in sty+ct+ap?  Especially a list of what's in there that's *not* in 0.4?
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[2023-11-05 01:46:31] <Lucifer_arma> anybody have yellow submarine settings laying around?
[2023-11-05 01:46:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anybody have yellow submarine settings laying around?
[2023-11-05 01:46:55] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: if I build the server and install it, do I get a systemd object?  Or do we still need to make that?
[2023-11-05 01:46:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: if I build the server and install it, do I get a systemd object?  Or do we still need to make that?
[2023-11-05 02:03:39] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: also, is there an ubuntu package automatically built for 0.4/trunk?
[2023-11-05 02:03:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: also, is there an ubuntu package automatically built for 0.4/trunk?
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[2023-11-05 04:03:14] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| u get a good chunk of xp for winning the match, per kill, items can increase xp, or give levels, aalso completing quests usually give xp. the first move is at lvl 2. it could be neat to shape the zones instead of generic circles but I cant recall what downsides there could be of using those zones.
[2023-11-05 04:03:16] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| u get a good chunk of xp for winning the match, per kill, items can increase xp, or give levels, aalso completing quests usually give xp. the first move is at lvl 2. it could be neat to shape the zones instead of generic circles but I cant recall what downsides there could be of using those zones.
[2023-11-05 04:10:24] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea I would say instant chats are super useful for common moves or item usage. if you kill all 3 ai's per round it's should be enough xp for +4 lvls at the beginning after winning the 10 round match
[2023-11-05 04:10:25] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| yea I would say instant chats are super useful for common moves or item usage. if you kill all 3 ai's per round it's should be enough xp for +4 lvls at the beginning after winning the 10 round match
[2023-11-05 04:17:43] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| glad to hear you liked the idea. I almost thought about using a non-standard map but havnt made one myself yet and none that i think i have found that would be nice to use for the concept
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[2023-11-05 09:44:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma if yellow sub was the same as classic sub, then I have the US one up and running. P4 is running the EU one
[2023-11-05 09:44:12] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma if yellow sub was the same as classic sub, then I have the US one up and running. P4 is running the EU one
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[2023-11-05 12:09:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @zman_0 I seem to recall you no longer hosting GER, is that correct?
[2023-11-05 12:09:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @zman_0 I seem to recall you no longer hosting GER, is that correct?
[2023-11-05 12:13:58] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: I don't know what a systemd object is, so probably not? We have old school init scripts.
[2023-11-05 12:13:58] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: I don't know what a systemd object is, so probably not? We have old school init scripts.
[2023-11-05 12:15:27] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| And yeah, 0.4 builds are in this PPA: https://launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa as armagetronad-experimental.
[2023-11-05 12:15:27] <Z-Man> And yeah, 0.4 builds are in this PPA: https://launchpad.net/~armagetronad-dev/+archive/ubuntu/ppa as armagetronad-experimental. 
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[2023-11-05 12:31:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma do you mean a systemd service?
[2023-11-05 12:31:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma do you mean a systemd service?
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[2023-11-05 12:31:26] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| z-man, would it work easily on openrc and such?
[2023-11-05 12:31:26] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| z-man, would it work easily on openrc and such?
[2023-11-05 12:55:00] <Z-Man> dunno. I always just run my servers in screen sessions.
[2023-11-05 12:55:00] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| dunno. I always just run my servers in screen sessions.
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[2023-11-05 19:12:45] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh cool
[2023-11-05 19:12:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh cool
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[2023-11-05 19:48:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-05 19:48:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-05 19:48:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| maybe check out ardour as well?
[2023-11-05 19:48:12] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| maybe check out ardour as well?
[2023-11-05 19:50:31] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| if it has a linux client maybe
[2023-11-05 19:50:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| if it has a linux client maybe
[2023-11-05 19:50:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I gotta get thsi dac first
[2023-11-05 19:50:40] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I gotta get thsi dac first
[2023-11-05 19:59:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ardour is on linux yeah
[2023-11-05 19:59:22] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ardour is on linux yeah
[2023-11-05 19:59:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its the other FOSS DAW
[2023-11-05 19:59:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| well kinda
[2023-11-05 19:59:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its closed source but its praised for linux use
[2023-11-05 19:59:47] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry i misspoke
[2023-11-05 19:59:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its the other FOSS DAW
[2023-11-05 19:59:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| well kinda
[2023-11-05 19:59:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its closed source but its praised for linux use
[2023-11-05 19:59:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry i misspoke
[2023-11-05 20:00:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont remember the fine details through i could be wrong on what i said
[2023-11-05 20:00:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont remember the fine details through i could be wrong on what i said
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[2023-11-05 21:21:15] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| OK let the resident Linux audio expert (me) clarify some stuff. Ardour is THE Linux DAW, meaning it was born of Linux and is the most stable and polished of all the LInux DAWs, created by Paul Davis who also wrote JACK sound server. It's open source, but ready-to-run binaries are available on a subscription model. A lot of repositories have Ardour, but it's usually an older versi <clipped message>
[2023-11-05 21:21:16] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| on since the software is actively developed and newer means less stable.
[2023-11-05 21:21:16] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| OK let the resident Linux audio expert (me) clarify some stuff. Ardour is THE Linux DAW, meaning it was born of Linux and is the most stable and polished of all the LInux DAWs, created by Paul Davis who also wrote JACK sound server. It's open source, but ready-to-run binaries are available on a subscription model. A lot of repositories have Ardour, but it's usually an older versi <clipped message>
[2023-11-05 21:21:16] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| on since the software is actively developed and newer means less stable.
[2023-11-05 21:24:03] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| That said, more and more DAWs that were previously Win/Mac are making native Linux builds. I just happen to like Reaper the best since I've used many, many, many DAWs in my life and it has both the capabilities and workflow that suit me.
[2023-11-05 21:24:03] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| That said, more and more DAWs that were previously Win/Mac are making native Linux builds. I just happen to like Reaper the best since I've used many, many, many DAWs in my life and it has both the capabilities and workflow that suit me.
[2023-11-05 23:02:19] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav: address sent
[2023-11-05 23:02:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav: address sent
[2023-11-05 23:02:23] <Lucifer_arma> thank you!
[2023-11-05 23:02:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| thank you!
[2023-11-05 23:03:01] <Lucifer_arma> For basses, I'm pretty flexible.  Black/purple, prefer humbuckers.  The one I used to use was an ibanez.  I like smaller bodies, but as long as it's not too heavy (like my last bass, an old Cort), I'm fine.
[2023-11-05 23:03:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| For basses, I'm pretty flexible.  Black/purple, prefer humbuckers.  The one I used to use was an ibanez.  I like smaller bodies, but as long as it's not too heavy (like my last bass, an old Cort), I'm fine.
[2023-11-05 23:03:46] <Lucifer_arma> For guitars, I'm pretty picky.  The Warlock isn't metal enough, I don't think, but I'd take a warlock as long as it didn't have any string buzzing and the electronics worked.  Black.  If it's not black, I may not like it at all.
[2023-11-05 23:03:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| For guitars, I'm pretty picky.  The Warlock isn't metal enough, I don't think, but I'd take a warlock as long as it didn't have any string buzzing and the electronics worked.  Black.  If it's not black, I may not like it at all.
[2023-11-05 23:03:54] <Lucifer_arma> You remember my old ironbird?
[2023-11-05 23:03:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| You remember my old ironbird?
[2023-11-05 23:04:10] <Lucifer_arma> That's the one I still have that I took apart back when I was just starting to become an alcoholic and still haven't put back together.
[2023-11-05 23:04:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| That's the one I still have that I took apart back when I was just starting to become an alcoholic and still haven't put back together.
[2023-11-05 23:05:11] <Lucifer_arma> Still, I'll take any guitar that looks like a metal guitar, is black (or purple, or a nice blue), and works.  I really don't like Strats or anything strat-adjacent, and if it looks like John Lennon would have played it, I probably won't
[2023-11-05 23:05:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Still, I'll take any guitar that looks like a metal guitar, is black (or purple, or a nice blue), and works.  I really don't like Strats or anything strat-adjacent, and if it looks like John Lennon would have played it, I probably won't
[2023-11-05 23:05:30] <Lucifer_arma> not trying to be too picky here, but I know neither you nor any of your friends want to gift someone a guitar they won't actually play ;)
[2023-11-05 23:05:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| not trying to be too picky here, but I know neither you nor any of your friends want to gift someone a guitar they won't actually play ;)
[2023-11-05 23:06:14] <Lucifer_arma> I should probably check Ardour out again.  For awhile I was checking it out every few years, but since I tore down my guitar, I haven't been using any audio software at all
[2023-11-05 23:06:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I should probably check Ardour out again.  For awhile I was checking it out every few years, but since I tore down my guitar, I haven't been using any audio software at all
[2023-11-05 23:06:38] <Lucifer_arma> The song I wrote for Crimson Fields I did with Rosegarden.  For technical reasons, that game needed the music to be MIDI only.  No recording.
[2023-11-05 23:06:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| The song I wrote for Crimson Fields I did with Rosegarden.  For technical reasons, that game needed the music to be MIDI only.  No recording.
[2023-11-05 23:08:21] <Lucifer_arma> I've heard a lot about Reaper, but I still do everything I can to avoid closed source apps, and last I heard, Reaper is closed source
[2023-11-05 23:08:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've heard a lot about Reaper, but I still do everything I can to avoid closed source apps, and last I heard, Reaper is closed source
[2023-11-05 23:09:08] <Lucifer_arma> I'll got and learn Ardour and Muse before I take a serious look at Reaper.  I'm sure it's great, but my needs aren't that great and there's no reason the open source offerings can't meet them
[2023-11-05 23:09:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll got and learn Ardour and Muse before I take a serious look at Reaper.  I'm sure it's great, but my needs aren't that great and there's no reason the open source offerings can't meet them
[2023-11-05 23:10:16] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| https://github.com/luong-komorebi/Awesome-Linux-Software#edit-mix-record
[2023-11-05 23:10:17] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| https://github.com/luong-komorebi/Awesome-Linux-Software#edit-mix-record
[2023-11-05 23:10:38] <Lucifer_arma> and in complete honesty, with a midi controller, the options are pretty open for what I can do using Rosegarden and Hydrogen.  I'll go digging around for a soundfont editor (there are several, zynaddsubfx comes to mind, or swami)
[2023-11-05 23:10:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and in complete honesty, with a midi controller, the options are pretty open for what I can do using Rosegarden and Hydrogen.  I'll go digging around for a soundfont editor (there are several, zynaddsubfx comes to mind, or swami)
[2023-11-05 23:10:57] <Lucifer_arma> Pretty sure lots of tracker apps take midi input as well
[2023-11-05 23:10:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Pretty sure lots of tracker apps take midi input as well
[2023-11-05 23:11:50] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| modplug and openmpt for sure
[2023-11-05 23:11:51] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| modplug and openmpt for sure
[2023-11-05 23:12:06] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| and both have ties into jack and pulse fwiw
[2023-11-05 23:12:06] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| and both have ties into jack and pulse fwiw
[2023-11-05 23:13:00] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| https://github.com/nodiscc/awesome-linuxaudio
[2023-11-05 23:13:00] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| https://github.com/nodiscc/awesome-linuxaudio
[2023-11-05 23:13:48] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| that last link is basically a gold mine for your intentions Luci
[2023-11-05 23:13:49] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| that last link is basically a gold mine for your intentions Luci
[2023-11-05 23:15:18] <Lucifer_arma> I think I should give lmms another shot.  Last time I tried, it was difficult to use
[2023-11-05 23:15:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think I should give lmms another shot.  Last time I tried, it was difficult to use
[2023-11-05 23:15:27] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| it still is
[2023-11-05 23:15:28] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| it still is
[2023-11-05 23:15:32] <Lucifer_arma> but I was also expecting an audacity-like workflow
[2023-11-05 23:15:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I was also expecting an audacity-like workflow
[2023-11-05 23:15:33] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| and arduour you have to selfcompile
[2023-11-05 23:15:34] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| and arduour you have to selfcompile
[2023-11-05 23:15:41] <Lucifer_arma> oh, I can build ardour if I need to
[2023-11-05 23:15:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh, I can build ardour if I need to
[2023-11-05 23:15:42] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| no bins without pro
[2023-11-05 23:15:42] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| no bins without pro
[2023-11-05 23:16:55] <Lucifer_arma> it has been a few since I last built ardour, but I can build it :)
[2023-11-05 23:16:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it has been a few since I last built ardour, but I can build it :)
[2023-11-05 23:20:35] <Lucifer_arma> maybe I'll start working on my own DAW.  Or look at some of these for what I want.
[2023-11-05 23:20:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| maybe I'll start working on my own DAW.  Or look at some of these for what I want.
[2023-11-05 23:20:47] <Lucifer_arma> See, I'd like to write a script that gets rendered to a song
[2023-11-05 23:20:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| See, I'd like to write a script that gets rendered to a song
[2023-11-05 23:23:47] <Lucifer_arma> since the music I write follows particular structures, I'd like to be able to create a file that defines what's in each part
[2023-11-05 23:23:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| since the music I write follows particular structures, I'd like to be able to create a file that defines what's in each part
[2023-11-05 23:23:58] <Lucifer_arma> so, maybe there's a first movement, second movement, b-section, final movement
[2023-11-05 23:23:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, maybe there's a first movement, second movement, b-section, final movement
[2023-11-05 23:24:11] <Lucifer_arma> or it's verse, prechorus, chorus, b-section, instrumental
[2023-11-05 23:24:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| or it's verse, prechorus, chorus, b-section, instrumental
[2023-11-05 23:24:12] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| programmatic audio is absolutely a thing fwiw
[2023-11-05 23:24:13] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| programmatic audio is absolutely a thing fwiw
[2023-11-05 23:24:23] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| hydrogen / csound / puresound etc
[2023-11-05 23:24:24] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| hydrogen / csound / puresound etc
[2023-11-05 23:25:38] <Lucifer_arma> Hydrogen?  No way.  One of the reasons I walked away from Hydrogen was because everybody dumped on my "let's build in structure" idea to the point where I was looking at writing it and submitting a patch, and comix told me he wouldn't accept it if I wrote it
[2023-11-05 23:25:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Hydrogen?  No way.  One of the reasons I walked away from Hydrogen was because everybody dumped on my "let's build in structure" idea to the point where I was looking at writing it and submitting a patch, and comix told me he wouldn't accept it if I wrote it
[2023-11-05 23:26:24] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| upstream battles in audio are as stringent as kernel upstreams. youll always find some asshole willing to push opionated code up and down
[2023-11-05 23:26:25] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:zebrafish.| upstream battles in audio are as stringent as kernel upstreams. youll always find some asshole willing to push opionated code up and down
[2023-11-05 23:26:54] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I want to be able to define a "feel", like "swing" or "blues" or "sousa" or "iron maiden" etc.  Declare structure and tempo for each section, like in an xml document or ini file
[2023-11-05 23:26:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anyway, I want to be able to define a "feel", like "swing" or "blues" or "sousa" or "iron maiden" etc.  Declare structure and tempo for each section, like in an xml document or ini file
[2023-11-05 23:27:57] <Lucifer_arma> the deciding factor for me and hydrogen was when someone insisted that drumkits shouldn't have roles, instead the instrument would be hard-coded, and I said there should be roles, so that if you have a drumline from someone, you can load up your own kit and hear how it sounds on that kit
[2023-11-05 23:27:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the deciding factor for me and hydrogen was when someone insisted that drumkits shouldn't have roles, instead the instrument would be hard-coded, and I said there should be roles, so that if you have a drumline from someone, you can load up your own kit and hear how it sounds on that kit
[2023-11-05 23:28:14] <Lucifer_arma> I got overruled (I wasn't an actual developer with them, mind you), and I left.
[2023-11-05 23:28:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I got overruled (I wasn't an actual developer with them, mind you), and I left.
[2023-11-05 23:28:31] <Lucifer_arma> I *think* they ended up doing what I suggested after going down a significant blind alley, and I don't even know if comix is still part of the project
[2023-11-05 23:28:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I *think* they ended up doing what I suggested after going down a significant blind alley, and I don't even know if comix is still part of the project
[2023-11-05 23:28:51] <Lucifer_arma> he was cool, it was other people I had trouble with
[2023-11-05 23:28:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| he was cool, it was other people I had trouble with
[2023-11-05 23:29:02] <Lucifer_arma> I still use hydrogen from time to time, because there's no better drum sequencer out there
[2023-11-05 23:29:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I still use hydrogen from time to time, because there's no better drum sequencer out there
[2023-11-05 23:35:13] <Lucifer_arma> @tannermon11: I'll think about it and maybe I'll put a map together.  I have to think about the concept some more.  I always wanted a story mode for this game.  :)
[2023-11-05 23:35:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @tannermon11: I'll think about it and maybe I'll put a map together.  I have to think about the concept some more.  I always wanted a story mode for this game.  :)
[2023-11-05 23:35:45] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: I wanted the yellow sub config because I wanted to derive a new Breakfast in Hell from it, but then I found that Breakfast in Hell is in the repository.  I forgot I put it there.
[2023-11-05 23:35:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: I wanted the yellow sub config because I wanted to derive a new Breakfast in Hell from it, but then I found that Breakfast in Hell is in the repository.  I forgot I put it there.
[2023-11-05 23:36:32] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: systemd is canonical's replacement for sys v scripts :)
[2023-11-05 23:36:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: systemd is canonical's replacement for sys v scripts :)
[2023-11-05 23:38:02] <Lucifer_arma> I'll play around with that a bit, but I'm not sure arma translates directly to a systemd object.  We need a server starter of some sort that creates subprocesses for actual game servers, if we want it to make sense in a systemd context
[2023-11-05 23:38:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll play around with that a bit, but I'm not sure arma translates directly to a systemd object.  We need a server starter of some sort that creates subprocesses for actual game servers, if we want it to make sense in a systemd context
[2023-11-05 23:39:11] <Lucifer_arma> I could throw together a python program to do that, but I have to consider it against my other priorities.  Maybe I'll just screen it, for now
[2023-11-05 23:39:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I could throw together a python program to do that, but I have to consider it against my other priorities.  Maybe I'll just screen it, for now
[2023-11-05 23:47:56] <Lucifer_arma> guru3_: hey, whenever you're back doing that person's name change on the forums, can you remove the "Local moonshiner" from my profile?  I tried to remove it myself, but apparently I can't.  I don't think a recovering alcoholic should be referred to as a local moonshiner...
[2023-11-05 23:47:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| guru3_: hey, whenever you're back doing that person's name change on the forums, can you remove the "Local moonshiner" from my profile?  I tried to remove it myself, but apparently I can't.  I don't think a recovering alcoholic should be referred to as a local moonshiner...
[2023-11-05 23:50:28] <Lucifer_arma> @Juesto: They're called "objects" for some reason.  They're not strictly limited to services.
[2023-11-05 23:50:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Juesto: They're called "objects" for some reason.  They're not strictly limited to services.

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[2023-11-06 00:23:59] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've used both Ardour and Muse. Ardour is better in almost every way. It has good docs too. However, it's a bit bulky and you really have to conform to their session file/folder structure for projects. My guess is that this mirrors other Pro DAWs  (logic/cubase/pro-tools/etc). I actually like Muse more even though it's clumsy to use. It is has a couple built-in synthesizers, very <clipped message>
[2023-11-06 00:24:00] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav|  basic mind you, but good enough for temporary use until you find a plugin to replace the sound. LMMS sucks for the most part unless loopy electronic music is your jam. Really there is no good substitute for a versatile DAW that allows you to use plugins.
[2023-11-06 00:24:00] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've used both Ardour and Muse. Ardour is better in almost every way. It has good docs too. However, it's a bit bulky and you really have to conform to their session file/folder structure for projects. My guess is that this mirrors other Pro DAWs  (logic/cubase/pro-tools/etc). I actually like Muse more even though it's clumsy to use. It is has a couple built-in synthesizers, very <clipped message>
[2023-11-06 00:24:01] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav|  basic mind you, but good enough for temporary use until you find a plugin to replace the sound. LMMS sucks for the most part unless loopy electronic music is your jam. Really there is no good substitute for a versatile DAW that allows you to use plugins.
[2023-11-06 00:28:08] <Lucifer_arma> loopy electronic music isn't my jam, but there's enough repetition in the kind of music I make that I can use it.  You know how repetitive metal can be.  But I still need a strong melody, and the ability to do longer movements that aren't repetitive.
[2023-11-06 00:28:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| loopy electronic music isn't my jam, but there's enough repetition in the kind of music I make that I can use it.  You know how repetitive metal can be.  But I still need a strong melody, and the ability to do longer movements that aren't repetitive.
[2023-11-06 00:29:12] <Lucifer_arma> last I heard, Ardour wasn't just the gold standard in Linux, it's entirely competitive with the pro DAWs, even better in some ways.  When I tried it, though, I couldn't get it to do anything useful, but that was probably in '07 or '08.
[2023-11-06 00:29:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| last I heard, Ardour wasn't just the gold standard in Linux, it's entirely competitive with the pro DAWs, even better in some ways.  When I tried it, though, I couldn't get it to do anything useful, but that was probably in '07 or '08.
[2023-11-06 00:30:11] <Lucifer_arma> I couldn't get Muse to do anything, either, but at the time, I was working on the song I did for Crimson Fields, and I ended up using Rosegarden for that.  I didn't enjoy Rosegarden at all, but I was able to use it.
[2023-11-06 00:30:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I couldn't get Muse to do anything, either, but at the time, I was working on the song I did for Crimson Fields, and I ended up using Rosegarden for that.  I didn't enjoy Rosegarden at all, but I was able to use it.
[2023-11-06 00:30:31] <Lucifer_arma> Unfortunately, the last time I tried to use Rosegarden, I couldn't get *it* to do anything either
[2023-11-06 00:30:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Unfortunately, the last time I tried to use Rosegarden, I couldn't get *it* to do anything either
[2023-11-06 00:31:04] <Lucifer_arma> and all I wanted out of it then was to lay out a synth track.  I had a bass I was going ot use for a bass line, and I had hydrogen for drums
[2023-11-06 00:31:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and all I wanted out of it then was to lay out a synth track.  I had a bass I was going ot use for a bass line, and I had hydrogen for drums
[2023-11-06 00:31:51] <Lucifer_arma> Now, I'm looking for something I can lay out synths with, and possibly other instruments, and bass (since I still don't have a bass).  Then I fully intend to use my drumkit for the drum line, augmenting as needed with Hydrogen, and my acoustic guitar for when I need something there
[2023-11-06 00:31:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Now, I'm looking for something I can lay out synths with, and possibly other instruments, and bass (since I still don't have a bass).  Then I fully intend to use my drumkit for the drum line, augmenting as needed with Hydrogen, and my acoustic guitar for when I need something there
[2023-11-06 00:32:26] <Lucifer_arma> I can do anything with the acoustic guitar + effects on the recorded track that I need to except the shred solos I like, but I'm so out of practice I won't be shredding anytime soon anyway
[2023-11-06 00:32:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can do anything with the acoustic guitar + effects on the recorded track that I need to except the shred solos I like, but I'm so out of practice I won't be shredding anytime soon anyway
[2023-11-06 00:33:22] <Lucifer_arma> but the nice thing about midi and soundfonts is that once you put something together, you can keep playing it in different soundfonts until you get what you want, then render it to an audio track and do anything else with it from there
[2023-11-06 00:33:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but the nice thing about midi and soundfonts is that once you put something together, you can keep playing it in different soundfonts until you get what you want, then render it to an audio track and do anything else with it from there
[2023-11-06 00:34:18] <Lucifer_arma> the only thing I'll be lacking that I really need is a good distorted guitar, but if you know a good effect that can turn an acoustic guitar into a metal distorted guitar, I'm all ears
[2023-11-06 00:34:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the only thing I'll be lacking that I really need is a good distorted guitar, but if you know a good effect that can turn an acoustic guitar into a metal distorted guitar, I'm all ears
[2023-11-06 00:35:13] <Lucifer_arma> basically, the three metal tones I use are very close to Master of Puppets, ...And Justice For all, and Peace Sells, but who's Buying?
[2023-11-06 00:35:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| basically, the three metal tones I use are very close to Master of Puppets, ...And Justice For all, and Peace Sells, but who's Buying?
[2023-11-06 00:35:52] <Lucifer_arma> Horrorscope (Overkill), and I'd really like to get a tone that sounds like King Diamond's Them
[2023-11-06 00:35:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Horrorscope (Overkill), and I'd really like to get a tone that sounds like King Diamond's Them
[2023-11-06 00:37:32] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've got a pretty healthy selection of soundfonts. If you didn't know, Glen who makes the AV Linux Distro has a ton of resources on his site. You'll notice one of the files in this page is 615MB, and it's the No Budget Orchestra which is j_e_f_f's orchestral soundfont project from the LinuxMusician's forum:
[2023-11-06 00:37:32] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| http://www.bandshed.net/sounds/sfz/
[2023-11-06 00:37:32] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've got a pretty healthy selection of soundfonts. If you didn't know, Glen who makes the AV Linux Distro has a ton of resources on his site. You'll notice one of the files in this page is 615MB, and it's the No Budget Orchestra which is j_e_f_f's orchestral soundfont project from the LinuxMusician's forum:
[2023-11-06 00:37:33] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| http://www.bandshed.net/sounds/sfz/
[2023-11-06 00:38:17] <Lucifer_arma> bookmarked :)
[2023-11-06 00:38:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| bookmarked :)
[2023-11-06 00:38:26] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I don't know much about metal plugins but I've heard good things about Guitarix
[2023-11-06 00:38:26] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I don't know much about metal plugins but I've heard good things about Guitarix
[2023-11-06 00:38:26] <Lucifer_arma> I've had a terrible time finding soundfonts
[2023-11-06 00:38:26] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://guitarix.org
[2023-11-06 00:38:27] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://guitarix.org
[2023-11-06 00:38:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've had a terrible time finding soundfonts
[2023-11-06 00:38:46] <Lucifer_arma> that's a preamp/effects package, iirc
[2023-11-06 00:38:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that's a preamp/effects package, iirc
[2023-11-06 00:39:20] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I've used it before.  It's nice, actually.
[2023-11-06 00:39:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, I've used it before.  It's nice, actually.
[2023-11-06 00:40:07] <Lucifer_arma> I would gladly build a raspberry pi who's sole purpose was to run that and use it as an effects unit for my guitar
[2023-11-06 00:40:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I would gladly build a raspberry pi who's sole purpose was to run that and use it as an effects unit for my guitar
[2023-11-06 00:40:32] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Does your acoustic have a pickup?
[2023-11-06 00:40:35] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Does your acoustic have a pickup?
[2023-11-06 00:40:35] <Lucifer_arma> but you can't take an acoustic guitar and turn it into a distorted guitar.  The tone is wrong, for starters, but there's also too much echo in it.  You wind up with a bunch of noise
[2023-11-06 00:40:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but you can't take an acoustic guitar and turn it into a distorted guitar.  The tone is wrong, for starters, but there's also too much echo in it.  You wind up with a bunch of noise
[2023-11-06 00:41:05] <Lucifer_arma> no, it doesn't.  An acoustic pickup is usually just a specialized mic stuck in the body somewhere.  I can buy one for it
[2023-11-06 00:41:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, it doesn't.  An acoustic pickup is usually just a specialized mic stuck in the body somewhere.  I can buy one for it
[2023-11-06 00:41:36] <Lucifer_arma> but to put, say, an SD hot rail on it, I'd have to put nickel strings which would bend the neck and sound like crap as an acoustic guitar
[2023-11-06 00:41:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but to put, say, an SD hot rail on it, I'd have to put nickel strings which would bend the neck and sound like crap as an acoustic guitar
[2023-11-06 00:41:52] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I had an acoustic once and mounted a seymor duncan metal pickup in the sound hole and it worked surprisingly well.
[2023-11-06 00:41:53] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I had an acoustic once and mounted a seymor duncan metal pickup in the sound hole and it worked surprisingly well.
[2023-11-06 00:42:31] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| If you want to try that, I might be able to 3D print you a pickup ring that fits your acoustic, heh.
[2023-11-06 00:42:33] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| If you want to try that, I might be able to 3D print you a pickup ring that fits your acoustic, heh.
[2023-11-06 00:42:37] <Lucifer_arma> if I'm goign to put work into fixing up a guitar, I should put it into the guitar I have.  :)
[2023-11-06 00:42:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if I'm goign to put work into fixing up a guitar, I should put it into the guitar I have.  :)
[2023-11-06 00:42:50] <Lucifer_arma> hey, maybe you can help me get my 3d printer working sometime.
[2023-11-06 00:42:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| hey, maybe you can help me get my 3d printer working sometime.
[2023-11-06 00:43:17] <Lucifer_arma> what I need to do with the guitar is take this bondo that I've got, mix it up, and fix all the little damage to it.  Then I just paint it and reassemble it.
[2023-11-06 00:43:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| what I need to do with the guitar is take this bondo that I've got, mix it up, and fix all the little damage to it.  Then I just paint it and reassemble it.
[2023-11-06 00:43:25] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Maybe. I know surprisingly little about it. I have a Prusa Mini that works so good I never have to do anything.
[2023-11-06 00:43:26] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Maybe. I know surprisingly little about it. I have a Prusa Mini that works so good I never have to do anything.
[2023-11-06 00:43:30] <Lucifer_arma> I'll need to buy parts again, since I looted it for parts for other guitars over the years
[2023-11-06 00:43:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll need to buy parts again, since I looted it for parts for other guitars over the years
[2023-11-06 00:44:07] <Lucifer_arma> well, I need to get it to print the sample cat that came with it again (just adjust the bed), and then it's work with the slicer I've been having trouble with
[2023-11-06 00:44:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, I need to get it to print the sample cat that came with it again (just adjust the bed), and then it's work with the slicer I've been having trouble with
[2023-11-06 00:44:08] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Damn, I wish I had more parts to send you. I went in a spree and built like 5 guitars last year out of spare parts until I ran out.
[2023-11-06 00:44:10] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Damn, I wish I had more parts to send you. I went in a spree and built like 5 guitars last year out of spare parts until I ran out.
[2023-11-06 00:44:43] <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to be pretty picky about parts when I put it back together.  I'm going to fill in the hole where the tremolo used to be and put a stationary bridge on it
[2023-11-06 00:44:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm going to be pretty picky about parts when I put it back together.  I'm going to fill in the hole where the tremolo used to be and put a stationary bridge on it
[2023-11-06 00:44:57] <Lucifer_arma> I want another SD hot rail, because I loved how that sounded
[2023-11-06 00:44:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I want another SD hot rail, because I loved how that sounded
[2023-11-06 00:45:27] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| nice
[2023-11-06 00:45:28] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| nice
[2023-11-06 00:45:28] <Lucifer_arma> I'm probably going to make my own bone nut for it, and then I want some quality tuning pegs
[2023-11-06 00:45:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm probably going to make my own bone nut for it, and then I want some quality tuning pegs
[2023-11-06 00:45:55] <Lucifer_arma> this it the exact time management problem you mentioned the other day
[2023-11-06 00:45:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| this it the exact time management problem you mentioned the other day
[2023-11-06 00:46:45] <Lucifer_arma> but there's a race on here.  If I find a decent guitar that I can afford before I put this one back together, I'm going to give up on it.  I've had it apart for around 13 years.  It's time to cut it loose as an unfinished project and move on.
[2023-11-06 00:46:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but there's a race on here.  If I find a decent guitar that I can afford before I put this one back together, I'm going to give up on it.  I've had it apart for around 13 years.  It's time to cut it loose as an unfinished project and move on.
[2023-11-06 00:47:04] <Lucifer_arma> The only reason I'm not doing that is because I still don't have a guitar, so as long as it's here and I don't have a guitar, finishing this project is on the table
[2023-11-06 00:47:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| The only reason I'm not doing that is because I still don't have a guitar, so as long as it's here and I don't have a guitar, finishing this project is on the table
[2023-11-06 00:47:34] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| yeah I get it. you have the same problem I do. You ain't got any money but you're super handy so you wind up maximizing what you have, which takes time.
[2023-11-06 00:47:34] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| yeah I get it. you have the same problem I do. You ain't got any money but you're super handy so you wind up maximizing what you have, which takes time.
[2023-11-06 00:47:55] <Lucifer_arma> yep.  And I have so much on my plate that something's gotta give, sooner or later
[2023-11-06 00:47:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yep.  And I have so much on my plate that something's gotta give, sooner or later
[2023-11-06 00:48:11] <Lucifer_arma> to make matters worse, I'm trying to add playing arma to the mix.  I need my downtime to be more productive.  :)
[2023-11-06 00:48:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| to make matters worse, I'm trying to add playing arma to the mix.  I need my downtime to be more productive.  :)
[2023-11-06 00:49:45] <Lucifer_arma> Starting tomorrow or the next day, I'm going to go back in to the story I just wrote and start revisions.  I'm intending to have it ready to publish before my vacation starts next week.
[2023-11-06 00:49:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Starting tomorrow or the next day, I'm going to go back in to the story I just wrote and start revisions.  I'm intending to have it ready to publish before my vacation starts next week.
[2023-11-06 00:52:24] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I gotta say, one thing I've started doing is finding ways to combine my interests. Like, I have a story I wanted to write, but then it turned into an opera, and now it's an animated film. I haven't started it yet, but it looks like I might in 2025, haha.
[2023-11-06 00:52:24] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I gotta say, one thing I've started doing is finding ways to combine my interests. Like, I have a story I wanted to write, but then it turned into an opera, and now it's an animated film. I haven't started it yet, but it looks like I might in 2025, haha.
[2023-11-06 00:52:53] <Lucifer_arma> Don't even get me started on the feature film I'm going to make, as soon as I get around to writing the script
[2023-11-06 00:52:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Don't even get me started on the feature film I'm going to make, as soon as I get around to writing the script
[2023-11-06 00:53:02] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| lol
[2023-11-06 00:53:02] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| lol
[2023-11-06 00:53:33] <Lucifer_arma> it's a great concept.  It's an exploration of depression, where I'll tell it as a horror story.  One guy getting stalked by a monster.  Of course, it's the depression monster from my web comic.
[2023-11-06 00:53:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's a great concept.  It's an exploration of depression, where I'll tell it as a horror story.  One guy getting stalked by a monster.  Of course, it's the depression monster from my web comic.
[2023-11-06 00:53:44] <Lucifer_arma> it doesn't have a happy ending
[2023-11-06 00:53:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it doesn't have a happy ending
[2023-11-06 00:54:17] <Lucifer_arma> I can film the whole thing with my phone.  I can use my apartment as the sole setting.  I just need to write the script and start shooting.
[2023-11-06 00:54:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can film the whole thing with my phone.  I can use my apartment as the sole setting.  I just need to write the script and start shooting.
[2023-11-06 00:54:32] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| nice
[2023-11-06 00:54:32] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| nice
[2023-11-06 00:55:01] <Lucifer_arma> if I do get that far, I'll probably tap you for a model, if you think you can make a decent model of the depression monster
[2023-11-06 00:55:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if I do get that far, I'll probably tap you for a model, if you think you can make a decent model of the depression monster
[2023-11-06 00:55:39] <Lucifer_arma> as it stands, I'll only need one tentacle for one scene.  The rest, well, you can't show the monster if the monster is really a mental illness
[2023-11-06 00:55:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as it stands, I'll only need one tentacle for one scene.  The rest, well, you can't show the monster if the monster is really a mental illness
[2023-11-06 00:55:49] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Hopefully I'll be good enough by the time you get there!
[2023-11-06 00:55:50] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Hopefully I'll be good enough by the time you get there!
[2023-11-06 00:56:02] <Lucifer_arma> as it stands, you've got until at least 2030
[2023-11-06 00:56:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as it stands, you've got until at least 2030
[2023-11-06 01:00:28] <Lucifer_arma> but in the climax, he'll actually fight the monster directly, and I have this vision of the tentacle grabbing him and pulling him up and strangling him, and we'll see all that
[2023-11-06 01:00:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but in the climax, he'll actually fight the monster directly, and I have this vision of the tentacle grabbing him and pulling him up and strangling him, and we'll see all that
[2023-11-06 01:01:22] <Lucifer_arma> Then it'll flash and show, for like a second or two, tops, that he wasn't fighting a real monster and he hung himself.  So at no point will it ever show him being suicidal
[2023-11-06 01:01:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Then it'll flash and show, for like a second or two, tops, that he wasn't fighting a real monster and he hung himself.  So at no point will it ever show him being suicidal
[2023-11-06 01:01:44] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| yo spoilers!
[2023-11-06 01:01:44] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| yo spoilers!
[2023-11-06 01:02:01] <Lucifer_arma> the idea being that the standard depiction and stereotype of depression is basically a whiny little bitch who can't cope with the world, but that's not at all what it's like
[2023-11-06 01:02:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the idea being that the standard depiction and stereotype of depression is basically a whiny little bitch who can't cope with the world, but that's not at all what it's like
[2023-11-06 01:02:23] <Lucifer_arma> hehe, the odds of this movie getting made are near 0
[2023-11-06 01:02:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| hehe, the odds of this movie getting made are near 0
[2023-11-06 01:02:29] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| yeah you're talking to someone who doesn't believe in free will
[2023-11-06 01:02:31] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| yeah you're talking to someone who doesn't believe in free will
[2023-11-06 01:02:48] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not entirely convinced free will is a thing, either
[2023-11-06 01:02:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not entirely convinced free will is a thing, either
[2023-11-06 01:03:06] <Lucifer_arma> but I'm also not convinced we live in a deterministic universe
[2023-11-06 01:03:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I'm also not convinced we live in a deterministic universe
[2023-11-06 01:04:08] <Lucifer_arma> but I can ignore all of that, because I'm well versed in compulsive behaviors and the kinds of mental illnesses that cause them, you know, being a recovering alcoholic and all
[2023-11-06 01:04:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I can ignore all of that, because I'm well versed in compulsive behaviors and the kinds of mental illnesses that cause them, you know, being a recovering alcoholic and all
[2023-11-06 01:04:23] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| exactly
[2023-11-06 01:04:23] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| exactly
[2023-11-06 01:04:54] <Lucifer_arma> ooo, 139 days sober this time
[2023-11-06 01:04:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ooo, 139 days sober this time
[2023-11-06 01:05:25] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ⭐
[2023-11-06 01:05:31] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ⭐
[2023-11-06 01:05:55] <Lucifer_arma> it's different this time, though, because last time the sobriety was laid on top of the end of my marriage and all the crap that goes along with it.  This time, though, there's no drama to deal with while also trying to be sober
[2023-11-06 01:05:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's different this time, though, because last time the sobriety was laid on top of the end of my marriage and all the crap that goes along with it.  This time, though, there's no drama to deal with while also trying to be sober
[2023-11-06 01:06:22] <Lucifer_arma> this is the least chaotic my life has been since, um, 1995
[2023-11-06 01:06:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| this is the least chaotic my life has been since, um, 1995
[2023-11-06 01:06:45] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've tried to explain to friends how much environment plays a factor in overcoming vices.
[2023-11-06 01:06:45] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've tried to explain to friends how much environment plays a factor in overcoming vices.
[2023-11-06 01:07:37] <Lucifer_arma> it's tricky.  See, the now ex-wife didn't *cause* my alcoholism, exactly, but I'm 99% certain if she wasn't there, it wouldn't have happened
[2023-11-06 01:07:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's tricky.  See, the now ex-wife didn't *cause* my alcoholism, exactly, but I'm 99% certain if she wasn't there, it wouldn't have happened
[2023-11-06 01:07:52] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, it depends on what I would have done otherwise, of course, and we don't know what that would've been
[2023-11-06 01:07:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I mean, it depends on what I would have done otherwise, of course, and we don't know what that would've been
[2023-11-06 01:08:33] <Lucifer_arma> but in my first divorce, I dumped 5 gallons of wine I had just finished making because I *knew* if I had that much around, I'd go down that rabbit hole, and I wasn't an alcoholic yet
[2023-11-06 01:08:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but in my first divorce, I dumped 5 gallons of wine I had just finished making because I *knew* if I had that much around, I'd go down that rabbit hole, and I wasn't an alcoholic yet
[2023-11-06 01:08:41] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I had a friend who wanted to stop smoking, and she did for a while, but then life got really stressful and she wanted to smoke again, and that was causing additional stress. I simply told her to start smoking, and she was surprised since I was the only friend who wasn't filling her with hollow, positive emotion shit. I said, smoke now, then quit later when the time is right.
[2023-11-06 01:08:41] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I had a friend who wanted to stop smoking, and she did for a while, but then life got really stressful and she wanted to smoke again, and that was causing additional stress. I simply told her to start smoking, and she was surprised since I was the only friend who wasn't filling her with hollow, positive emotion shit. I said, smoke now, then quit later when the time is right.
[2023-11-06 01:09:53] <Lucifer_arma> I'd disagree a bit with that, but that's A Right Thing to do.  Most of my disagreement comes out of all the mindfulness training I've been doing the last 5 years or so
[2023-11-06 01:09:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'd disagree a bit with that, but that's A Right Thing to do.  Most of my disagreement comes out of all the mindfulness training I've been doing the last 5 years or so
[2023-11-06 01:10:30] <Lucifer_arma> but I had a similar choice, not surprisingly.  When I was in rehab, I had an opportunity to quit smoking too.  I chose not to, because if shit hit the fan later and I started smoking, I'd relapse into drinking right away
[2023-11-06 01:10:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I had a similar choice, not surprisingly.  When I was in rehab, I had an opportunity to quit smoking too.  I chose not to, because if shit hit the fan later and I started smoking, I'd relapse into drinking right away
[2023-11-06 01:10:42] <Lucifer_arma> so I chose to keep smoking
[2023-11-06 01:10:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so I chose to keep smoking
[2023-11-06 01:11:31] <Lucifer_arma> but yeah, all that "You can do it!"  and "Strength comes from within!" crap doesn't help when your whole body is walking you down to the store to buy the thing and you're not really in control
[2023-11-06 01:11:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but yeah, all that "You can do it!"  and "Strength comes from within!" crap doesn't help when your whole body is walking you down to the store to buy the thing and you're not really in control
[2023-11-06 01:12:11] <Lucifer_arma> my first wife quit when she was pregnant with our first kid, and then started again after the third kid was born when she was in a car accident with the kids in the car
[2023-11-06 01:12:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| my first wife quit when she was pregnant with our first kid, and then started again after the third kid was born when she was in a car accident with the kids in the car
[2023-11-06 01:13:02] <Lucifer_arma> she quit again during our divorce and took Chantex (Chantix?), which basically caused one of those psychotic episodes that it got a reputation for causing, making our divorce much more difficult than necessary
[2023-11-06 01:13:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| she quit again during our divorce and took Chantex (Chantix?), which basically caused one of those psychotic episodes that it got a reputation for causing, making our divorce much more difficult than necessary
[2023-11-06 01:13:52] <Lucifer_arma> but on the subject of environment, I'm starting to think the nature vs nurture argument is a false dilemma
[2023-11-06 01:13:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but on the subject of environment, I'm starting to think the nature vs nurture argument is a false dilemma
[2023-11-06 01:14:32] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Right. My friend started taking Welbutrin to help stop smoking, but that resulted in a lot of weight gain and some mental problems. Really she should have just kept smoking. 🤷
[2023-11-06 01:14:32] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Right. My friend started taking Welbutrin to help stop smoking, but that resulted in a lot of weight gain and some mental problems. Really she should have just kept smoking. 🤷
[2023-11-06 01:14:39] <Lucifer_arma> we are the environment, and the environment is us.  You can't separate the two.  It's useful to think about it as two separate influences, but it's not actually separate
[2023-11-06 01:14:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we are the environment, and the environment is us.  You can't separate the two.  It's useful to think about it as two separate influences, but it's not actually separate
[2023-11-06 01:14:51] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| true and real
[2023-11-06 01:14:51] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| true and real
[2023-11-06 01:15:27] <Lucifer_arma> but in a vacuum, I wouldn't ever drink again :)
[2023-11-06 01:15:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but in a vacuum, I wouldn't ever drink again :)
[2023-11-06 01:19:39] <Lucifer_arma> drugs don't work on me the way you'd expect.  I'm leary about trying any because of that.  I've taken antidepressants, and they "worked", but I honestly can't say if it was simply placebo
[2023-11-06 01:19:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| drugs don't work on me the way you'd expect.  I'm leary about trying any because of that.  I've taken antidepressants, and they "worked", but I honestly can't say if it was simply placebo
[2023-11-06 01:20:12] <Lucifer_arma> but I wouldn't risk welbutrin for myself, not for something like quitting smoking.
[2023-11-06 01:20:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I wouldn't risk welbutrin for myself, not for something like quitting smoking.
[2023-11-06 01:20:50] <Lucifer_arma> heh, you know what works the best as an antidepressant for me?
[2023-11-06 01:20:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| heh, you know what works the best as an antidepressant for me?
[2023-11-06 01:21:02] <Lucifer_arma> I'll give you a hint: it's in my name here because Lucifer was taken
[2023-11-06 01:21:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll give you a hint: it's in my name here because Lucifer was taken
[2023-11-06 01:21:42] <Lucifer_arma> I was thinking about this earlier.  Armagetron had a very strong but indirect role in causing my first divorce, and not in the way you'd normally expect a video game to cause a divorce
[2023-11-06 01:21:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was thinking about this earlier.  Armagetron had a very strong but indirect role in causing my first divorce, and not in the way you'd normally expect a video game to cause a divorce
[2023-11-06 01:21:55] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| say what
[2023-11-06 01:21:55] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| say what
[2023-11-06 01:22:23] <Lucifer_arma> I pulled out of a depressive episode back then, and got on pretty solid footing mentally, and when I looked at my life, I realized I hated my marriage, I didn't like my wife at all, and I wanted out
[2023-11-06 01:22:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I pulled out of a depressive episode back then, and got on pretty solid footing mentally, and when I looked at my life, I realized I hated my marriage, I didn't like my wife at all, and I wanted out
[2023-11-06 01:23:09] <Lucifer_arma> it's something about how arma works on my brain.  It's like steroids for brain functions.  I think more clearly when I play it regularly.
[2023-11-06 01:23:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's something about how arma works on my brain.  It's like steroids for brain functions.  I think more clearly when I play it regularly.
[2023-11-06 01:25:01] <Lucifer_arma> Ironically, spending all that time in the fictional world of armagetron made me engage more positively and more thoroughly with the real world, and the knock-on effects persisted for years even when I wasn't playing
[2023-11-06 01:25:02] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I think I get it. For me arma is a combination of intense concentration and periods of being "in a groove" where you aren't thinking. It's a pretty zen activity. Almost like a meditation session. You can walk away with a different perspective on things.
[2023-11-06 01:25:02] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I think I get it. For me arma is a combination of intense concentration and periods of being "in a groove" where you aren't thinking. It's a pretty zen activity. Almost like a meditation session. You can walk away with a different perspective on things.
[2023-11-06 01:25:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Ironically, spending all that time in the fictional world of armagetron made me engage more positively and more thoroughly with the real world, and the knock-on effects persisted for years even when I wasn't playing
[2023-11-06 01:25:36] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, very much in the moment kind of thinking.  And your brain gets trained to stay in the moment, so you take that into the rest of your life
[2023-11-06 01:25:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, very much in the moment kind of thinking.  And your brain gets trained to stay in the moment, so you take that into the rest of your life
[2023-11-06 01:27:18] <Lucifer_arma> and the style of play, to be really good at it, it's an assertive style, not really aggressive.  I don't think an FPS would have the same effect at all.
[2023-11-06 01:27:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and the style of play, to be really good at it, it's an assertive style, not really aggressive.  I don't think an FPS would have the same effect at all.
[2023-11-06 01:28:02] <Lucifer_arma> but then there are other effects that aren't so great.  I was riding my motorcycle to work earlier and when I went to speed up, I grinded on the curb and I kept cutting people off
[2023-11-06 01:28:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but then there are other effects that aren't so great.  I was riding my motorcycle to work earlier and when I went to speed up, I grinded on the curb and I kept cutting people off
[2023-11-06 01:28:06] <Lucifer_arma> (that didn't really happen)
[2023-11-06 01:28:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (that didn't really happen)
[2023-11-06 01:28:46] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ha
[2023-11-06 01:28:46] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ha
[2023-11-06 01:29:17] <Lucifer_arma> but I do occasionally do a u-turn where I was I was double-binding
[2023-11-06 01:29:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I do occasionally do a u-turn where I was I was double-binding
[2023-11-06 01:29:33] <Lucifer_arma> *wish I was double-binding
[2023-11-06 01:29:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| *wish I was double-binding
[2023-11-06 01:30:07] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I need to take a shower and finish up the evening.  It was nice chatting with you.  It's been awhile.
[2023-11-06 01:30:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I need to take a shower and finish up the evening.  It was nice chatting with you.  It's been awhile.
[2023-11-06 01:34:20] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| right on man, I'll look you up next time I'm in your area
[2023-11-06 01:34:20] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| right on man, I'll look you up next time I'm in your area
[2023-11-06 03:06:15] <guru3_> done
[2023-11-06 03:06:15] <armagetronbridge> 02irc:guru3_| done
[2023-11-06 03:10:01] <Lucifer_arma> guru3_: thank you
[2023-11-06 03:10:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| guru3_: thank you
[2023-11-06 03:10:57] <Lucifer_arma> I wonder if I could get the old Breakfast in Hell feel back by running it on my database server
[2023-11-06 03:10:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I wonder if I could get the old Breakfast in Hell feel back by running it on my database server
[2023-11-06 03:45:15] <Lucifer_arma> erm, why isn't the map a square anymore?
[2023-11-06 03:45:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| erm, why isn't the map a square anymore?
[2023-11-06 03:57:21] <Lucifer_arma> nvm, I screwed up my own cockpit
[2023-11-06 03:57:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| nvm, I screwed up my own cockpit
[2023-11-06 03:57:48] <Lucifer_arma> ok, breakfast in hell is up.  Nothing is quite "right" right now.  Rubber's wrong.  Now it's a damn high rubber server.  I'll deal with that later.
[2023-11-06 03:57:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, breakfast in hell is up.  Nothing is quite "right" right now.  Rubber's wrong.  Now it's a damn high rubber server.  I'll deal with that later.
[2023-11-06 05:37:55] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| alright sounds good lucifer. it does have lore behind the idea since it was themed off of an existing idea so it would be neat to have a map that could work for the theme also but not sure how that would look
[2023-11-06 05:37:55] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| alright sounds good lucifer. it does have lore behind the idea since it was themed off of an existing idea so it would be neat to have a map that could work for the theme also but not sure how that would look
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[2023-11-06 11:08:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma you can ping Juest btw
[2023-11-06 11:08:56] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma you can ping Juest btw
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[2023-11-06 17:48:40] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| Lucifer_arma: theres no specific list of ap vs 0.4 afaik, but there are pages that describe at least a little of what ap has https://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php?title=Styctap
[2023-11-06 17:48:40] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| Lucifer_arma: theres no specific list of ap vs 0.4 afaik, but there are pages that describe at least a little of what ap has https://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php?title=Styctap
[2023-11-06 18:00:47] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| but yeah +ap does not support shapepolygons, and 0.4 is missing most of what is needed to make tanner's script work
[2023-11-06 18:00:47] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| but yeah +ap does not support shapepolygons, and 0.4 is missing most of what is needed to make tanner's script work
[2023-11-06 19:01:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh hey nelg, any particular reason you stopped updating the builds on your site?
[2023-11-06 19:01:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh hey nelg, any particular reason you stopped updating the builds on your site?
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[2023-11-06 22:53:36] <Lucifer_arma> @tannermon11: I'm not real sure about it either, since I"m not familiar with that particular lore ;)
[2023-11-06 22:53:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @tannermon11: I'm not real sure about it either, since I"m not familiar with that particular lore ;)
[2023-11-06 23:06:32] <Lucifer_arma> ok, the death zone spawns but doesn't kill the person inside it?
[2023-11-06 23:06:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, the death zone spawns but doesn't kill the person inside it?

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[2023-11-07 00:38:26] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| what was that directed to lucifer?
[2023-11-07 00:38:27] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| what was that directed to lucifer?
[2023-11-07 01:21:38] <Lucifer_arma> anyone
[2023-11-07 01:21:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anyone
[2023-11-07 01:21:48] <Lucifer_arma> the death zone on my server wasn't killing the guy who was in it when it spawned
[2023-11-07 01:21:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the death zone on my server wasn't killing the guy who was in it when it spawned
[2023-11-07 01:22:17] <Lucifer_arma> also, I forgot my server had a death zone
[2023-11-07 01:22:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, I forgot my server had a death zone
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[2023-11-07 11:37:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
[2023-11-07 11:37:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
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[2023-11-07 13:10:03] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| laziness
[2023-11-07 13:10:04] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| laziness
[2023-11-07 13:10:56] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i'd have to automate it
[2023-11-07 13:10:56] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i'd have to automate it
[2023-11-07 14:30:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| that'll do
[2023-11-07 14:30:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| that'll do
[2023-11-07 15:25:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Seeker| hey luci, we actually talking about restarting breakfast? That'd be a hell of a time if we could find all the old timers that have scattered to the wind...
[2023-11-07 15:25:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Seeker| hey luci, we actually talking about restarting breakfast? That'd be a hell of a time if we could find all the old timers that have scattered to the wind...
[2023-11-07 17:45:21] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Seeker| I was on a little while ago and holy hell.... that rubber was nuts. Maybe i'm loosing my mind, but I don't remember it being that soft. wasn't there a change in one of the older versions that reworked how rubber operated and all the servers had to make adjustments, or am I not remembering correctly?
[2023-11-07 17:45:21] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Seeker| I was on a little while ago and holy hell.... that rubber was nuts. Maybe i'm loosing my mind, but I don't remember it being that soft. wasn't there a change in one of the older versions that reworked how rubber operated and all the servers had to make adjustments, or am I not remembering correctly?
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[2023-11-07 22:40:51] <Lucifer_arma> @Seeker: Yeah, it was the 0.7.1 change, then to 0.2.8.  These should be the 0.2.8 settings, which should *not* need to be changed for 0.4.0
[2023-11-07 22:40:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Seeker: Yeah, it was the 0.7.1 change, then to 0.2.8.  These should be the 0.2.8 settings, which should *not* need to be changed for 0.4.0
[2023-11-07 22:41:32] <Lucifer_arma> and yes, I want to bring my server back.  When I started from a fresh install and saw all the servers I couldn't play because I didn't have enough experience, I thought we need a good server that welcomes noobs, and that's what Breakfast always was
[2023-11-07 22:41:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and yes, I want to bring my server back.  When I started from a fresh install and saw all the servers I couldn't play because I didn't have enough experience, I thought we need a good server that welcomes noobs, and that's what Breakfast always was
[2023-11-07 22:42:12] <Lucifer_arma> But we're going to have to tweak the rubber.  It mostly plays fine, but there are a few situations where it's just not quite right and too MBC-ish for me
[2023-11-07 22:42:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| But we're going to have to tweak the rubber.  It mostly plays fine, but there are a few situations where it's just not quite right and too MBC-ish for me
[2023-11-07 22:42:19] <Lucifer_arma> (if you remember MBC, that is)
[2023-11-07 22:42:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (if you remember MBC, that is)
[2023-11-07 22:42:56] <Lucifer_arma> maybe I should build 0.2.7.1 and run these settings so we can see what it played like originally
[2023-11-07 22:42:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| maybe I should build 0.2.7.1 and run these settings so we can see what it played like originally
[2023-11-07 22:44:09] <Lucifer_arma> 0.2.7.1 was the odd one, where 0.2.8 restored what we had in 0.2.7.0 and 0.2.6, while still fixing the things that bothered z-man in 0.2.6
[2023-11-07 22:44:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| 0.2.7.1 was the odd one, where 0.2.8 restored what we had in 0.2.7.0 and 0.2.6, while still fixing the things that bothered z-man in 0.2.6
[2023-11-07 22:44:21] <Lucifer_arma> but these settings were first created on 0.2.7.1 :)
[2023-11-07 22:44:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but these settings were first created on 0.2.7.1 :)
[2023-11-07 22:45:37] <Lucifer_arma> also, maybe I"ll do this next week when I'm on vacation, but I think I want to look through the scripts people have made for hosting multiple servers on one machine and see what I can grab to build a good systemd object and get it in 0.4.  Everyone uses systemd and are about to drop the old sys v init scripts completely
[2023-11-07 22:45:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, maybe I"ll do this next week when I'm on vacation, but I think I want to look through the scripts people have made for hosting multiple servers on one machine and see what I can grab to build a good systemd object and get it in 0.4.  Everyone uses systemd and are about to drop the old sys v init scripts completely
[2023-11-07 22:46:47] <Lucifer_arma> we'll keep the sys v scripts for the foreseeable future, since they work, and there's no compelling reason to remove them, but we should default to systemd
[2023-11-07 22:46:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we'll keep the sys v scripts for the foreseeable future, since they work, and there's no compelling reason to remove them, but we should default to systemd
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[2023-11-07 23:23:01] <Lucifer_arma> Now that I think about it, I don't know that I ever updated the settings for 0.2.8.  Remember I ran the Crack Pipe in the beta period for 0.2.8 to show off maps?
[2023-11-07 23:23:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Now that I think about it, I don't know that I ever updated the settings for 0.2.8.  Remember I ran the Crack Pipe in the beta period for 0.2.8 to show off maps?
[2023-11-07 23:39:48] <Lucifer_arma> !add fort
[2023-11-07 23:39:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| !add fort

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[2023-11-08 08:40:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah interesting!
[2023-11-08 08:40:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah interesting!
[2023-11-08 08:40:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the command only works on the pickup channel in the discord lucifer_arma
[2023-11-08 08:40:50] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the command only works on the pickup channel in the discord lucifer_arma
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[2023-11-08 09:26:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: I haven't hooked up #armagetron-pickup to the pickup channel here yet, it requires some alteration to the pickup bot first. You'll have to pop over here if you want to play :D  discord.gg/dcpaauj
[2023-11-08 09:26:58] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: I haven't hooked up #armagetron-pickup to the pickup channel here yet, it requires some alteration to the pickup bot first. You'll have to pop over here if you want to play :D  discord.gg/dcpaauj
[2023-11-08 09:26:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @loki_913 btw replies don't get fed to the IRC bot for future reference. Not part of the implementation and not really implementable in someone else's IRC server. I don't think I have enough sway with OFTC to make that work, and I don't think Libera would be interested
[2023-11-08 09:26:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @loki_913 btw replies don't get fed to the IRC bot for future reference. Not part of the implementation and not really implementable in someone else's IRC server. I don't think I have enough sway with OFTC to make that work, and I don't think Libera would be interested
[2023-11-08 09:27:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for systemd, I don't bother with it. Nelg's init scripts with screen do excellently - but you could transplant them to systemd easily enough. This is teh srv.sh script that sets parameters:
[2023-11-08 09:27:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for systemd, I don't bother with it. Nelg's init scripts with screen do excellently - but you could transplant them to systemd easily enough. This is teh srv.sh script that sets parameters:
[2023-11-08 09:29:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I decided to stick them here because IRC will split them into multiple lines
[2023-11-08 09:29:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://vixen.international/assets/pub/tronscripts/
[2023-11-08 09:29:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I decided to stick them here because IRC will split them into multiple lines
[2023-11-08 09:29:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://vixen.international/assets/pub/tronscripts/
[2023-11-08 09:29:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the server is booted with boot.sh, in the format `. boot.sh <servername>`, that name being the same as the directory name in which the server is located
[2023-11-08 09:29:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the server is booted with boot.sh, in the format `. boot.sh <servername>`, that name being the same as the directory name in which the server is located
[2023-11-08 09:31:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| as for creating a systemd unit, a text file with the name <servicename>.service placed in /lib/systemd/system will do the trick
[2023-11-08 09:31:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| as for creating a systemd unit, a text file with the name <servicename>.service placed in /lib/systemd/system will do the trick
[2023-11-08 09:33:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| er
[2023-11-08 09:33:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| er
[2023-11-08 09:33:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| /etc/systemd/system, not /lib
[2023-11-08 09:33:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| /etc/systemd/system, not /lib
[2023-11-08 09:34:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a basic example of a systemd unit there
[2023-11-08 09:34:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a basic example of a systemd unit there
[2023-11-08 09:35:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| at https://vixen.international/assets/pub/tronscripts/, I mean
[2023-11-08 09:35:05] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| at https://vixen.international/assets/pub/tronscripts/, I mean
[2023-11-08 09:36:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| once you've built it, use `systemctl daemon-reload` to make systemd aware of the new unit, then `systemctl enable <servicename>.service` to "switch it on" so to speak
[2023-11-08 09:36:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| once you've built it, use `systemctl daemon-reload` to make systemd aware of the new unit, then `systemctl enable <servicename>.service` to "switch it on" so to speak
[2023-11-08 09:36:29] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about other inits?
[2023-11-08 09:36:29] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about other inits?
[2023-11-08 09:36:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| then you can use `systemctl start/stop/restart <servicename>` to operate on it
[2023-11-08 09:36:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| then you can use `systemctl start/stop/restart <servicename>` to operate on it
[2023-11-08 09:37:24] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto in time. That's all Lucifer needs to make tron run under systemd for the moment, systemd as a whole is a bit of a mess
[2023-11-08 09:37:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto in time. That's all Lucifer needs to make tron run under systemd for the moment, systemd as a whole is a bit of a mess
[2023-11-08 09:37:39] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah fair
[2023-11-08 09:37:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah fair
[2023-11-08 09:37:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| was just curious about other inits ^^
[2023-11-08 09:37:54] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| was just curious about other inits ^^
[2023-11-08 09:38:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| there isnt a dedicated server package iirc
[2023-11-08 09:38:13] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| there isnt a dedicated server package iirc
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[2023-11-08 10:40:17] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| I didn't write these scripts btw, they've been around for a while. No clue who wrote them
[2023-11-08 10:40:18] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| I didn't write these scripts btw, they've been around for a while. No clue who wrote them
[2023-11-08 10:40:18] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| anyway, I don't usually bother with systemd or sysvinit units. I tend to set up cron jobs at `@reboot` to launch the `srv.sh` script (or equivalent), which can be set up with `crontab -e`
[2023-11-08 10:40:18] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| anyway, I don't usually bother with systemd or sysvinit units. I tend to set up cron jobs at `@reboot` to launch the `srv.sh` script (or equivalent), which can be set up with `crontab -e`
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[2023-11-08 15:35:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| speaking of, @codefossa could we maybe get perms, or perhaps specific people with perms, to upload bash scripts and the like to resource.armagetronad.net? It would be helpful if we had the ability to update them or add new scripts for things like installation without relying on one person to update all of them. It might be nice to have a place to put all the tools too, since a ha <clipped message>
[2023-11-08 15:35:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| speaking of, @codefossa could we maybe get perms, or perhaps specific people with perms, to upload bash scripts and the like to resource.armagetronad.net? It would be helpful if we had the ability to update them or add new scripts for things like installation without relying on one person to update all of them. It might be nice to have a place to put all the tools too, since a ha <clipped message>
[2023-11-08 15:35:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ndful of them are offline and reliant on the user to cownload them
[2023-11-08 15:35:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ndful of them are offline and reliant on the user to cownload them
[2023-11-08 15:43:39] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| For scripts the wiki is probably better as it would allow modifications and community suggestions plus will be a little easier for users to view the code before running it.
[2023-11-08 15:43:39] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| For scripts the wiki is probably better as it would allow modifications and community suggestions plus will be a little easier for users to view the code before running it.
[2023-11-08 15:44:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Can we upload to the wiki?
[2023-11-08 15:44:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Can we upload to the wiki?
[2023-11-08 15:44:21] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I mean, aside from just creating a page
[2023-11-08 15:44:22] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I mean, aside from just creating a page
[2023-11-08 15:44:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Should be able to. If not, let me know.
[2023-11-08 15:44:22] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Should be able to. If not, let me know.
[2023-11-08 15:44:39] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| There are attachments I'm pretty sure.
[2023-11-08 15:44:40] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| There are attachments I'm pretty sure.
[2023-11-08 15:44:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| sec I'm looking at it now
[2023-11-08 15:44:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| sec I'm looking at it now
[2023-11-08 15:44:50] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| But may be limited to images but we could change that.
[2023-11-08 15:44:51] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| But may be limited to images but we could change that.
[2023-11-08 15:45:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| and does the wiki support curl/wget?
[2023-11-08 15:45:21] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| and does the wiki support curl/wget?
[2023-11-08 15:45:36] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| What do you mean?
[2023-11-08 15:45:36] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| What do you mean?
[2023-11-08 15:45:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya limited to images
[2023-11-08 15:45:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya limited to images
[2023-11-08 15:45:56] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Just direct link hosting you mean?
[2023-11-08 15:45:57] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Just direct link hosting you mean?
[2023-11-08 15:46:26] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| part of the guide here: https://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php?title=Setting_Up_Multiple_Armagetron_Servers_the_Easy_Way includes instructions to use wget to obtain the installation scripts for an armagetron server
[2023-11-08 15:46:26] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| part of the guide here: https://wiki.armagetronad.org/index.php?title=Setting_Up_Multiple_Armagetron_Servers_the_Easy_Way includes instructions to use wget to obtain the installation scripts for an armagetron server
[2023-11-08 15:47:15] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's the sort of example I'm looking at - if we could upload that script to the wiki or the resource, we'd be able to update it as a community
[2023-11-08 15:47:15] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's the sort of example I'm looking at - if we could upload that script to the wiki or the resource, we'd be able to update it as a community
[2023-11-08 15:47:41] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| I would need to check if the wiki provides direct links or not. I can check on that later tonight.
[2023-11-08 15:47:41] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| I would need to check if the wiki provides direct links or not. I can check on that later tonight.
[2023-11-08 15:47:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'll try ti now hang on
[2023-11-08 15:47:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'll try ti now hang on
[2023-11-08 15:50:43] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ok seems fine, all we need is to permit other filetypes
[2023-11-08 15:50:43] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ok seems fine, all we need is to permit other filetypes
[2023-11-08 15:50:51] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| You could also host files on GitHub which I think you could direct link to
[2023-11-08 15:50:51] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| You could also host files on GitHub which I think you could direct link to
[2023-11-08 15:51:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Unfortunately that's nto really an option for the community at large I don't think, armagetron deliberately moved away from github after the microsoft purchase. It would also be nice to keep it in-house rather than relying on a third-party service, otherwise linkrot is a very real possibility
[2023-11-08 15:51:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Unfortunately that's nto really an option for the community at large I don't think, armagetron deliberately moved away from github after the microsoft purchase. It would also be nice to keep it in-house rather than relying on a third-party service, otherwise linkrot is a very real possibility
[2023-11-08 15:52:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I think z-man and lucifer were talking about that the other day actually
[2023-11-08 15:52:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I think z-man and lucifer were talking about that the other day actually
[2023-11-08 15:52:47] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| I'm just not completely sure allowing uploads of any file type is going to be a good idea.
[2023-11-08 15:52:47] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| I'm just not completely sure allowing uploads of any file type is going to be a good idea.
[2023-11-08 15:54:00] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| If it's purely scripts we could have our own self hosted pastebin type site
[2023-11-08 15:54:00] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| If it's purely scripts we could have our own self hosted pastebin type site
[2023-11-08 15:54:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| No, I'd restrict it to `.sh`, `.cfg`, and possibly `.txt`
[2023-11-08 15:54:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| No, I'd restrict it to `.sh`, `.cfg`, and possibly `.txt`
[2023-11-08 15:54:20] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Ok those might not be so bad
[2023-11-08 15:54:21] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Ok those might not be so bad
[2023-11-08 15:54:31] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| we could sure.The wiki has the value, though, of recording who uploads what
[2023-11-08 15:54:31] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| we could sure.The wiki has the value, though, of recording who uploads what
[2023-11-08 15:54:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| and we could theoretically restrict expanded upload permissions to known community members
[2023-11-08 15:54:49] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| and we could theoretically restrict expanded upload permissions to known community members
[2023-11-08 15:55:09] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| I'll take a look at it a bit today and see what we can safely add to the wiki
[2023-11-08 15:55:09] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| I'll take a look at it a bit today and see what we can safely add to the wiki
[2023-11-08 15:55:18] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| It would be the cleanest place for it.
[2023-11-08 15:55:18] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| It would be the cleanest place for it.
[2023-11-08 15:55:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| wicked stuff ta
[2023-11-08 15:55:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| wicked stuff ta
[2023-11-08 16:24:22] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: I'm still not installing a closed source app to play an open source game ;)
[2023-11-08 16:24:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: I'm still not installing a closed source app to play an open source game ;)
[2023-11-08 16:25:23] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| you don't need to - discord can run in a browser, and if you want a non-browser experience, ripcord is a foss shareware solution
[2023-11-08 16:25:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| you don't need to - discord can run in a browser, and if you want a non-browser experience, ripcord is a foss shareware solution
[2023-11-08 16:25:49] <Lucifer_arma> I can make systemd units already, I made one for the stockanalyst workers.  What I'm wanting is a script that manages multiple server instances to use as the target for systemd
[2023-11-08 16:25:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can make systemd units already, I made one for the stockanalyst workers.  What I'm wanting is a script that manages multiple server instances to use as the target for systemd
[2023-11-08 16:25:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Alternatively, you could always ask someone here to add on your behalf, we do that for goose
[2023-11-08 16:25:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Alternatively, you could always ask someone here to add on your behalf, we do that for goose
[2023-11-08 16:28:29] <Lucifer_arma> if you need to worry about tracking versions with these scripts, having a github repository is a good idea.  You can do what we do and put it on gitlab and mirror to github, or vice versa.
[2023-11-08 16:28:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if you need to worry about tracking versions with these scripts, having a github repository is a good idea.  You can do what we do and put it on gitlab and mirror to github, or vice versa.
[2023-11-08 16:28:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, then you use `Environment` to set the parameters for config, log location, etcetera
[2023-11-08 16:28:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, then you use `Environment` to set the parameters for config, log location, etcetera
[2023-11-08 16:28:35] <Lucifer_arma> you can also self-host a git repository
[2023-11-08 16:28:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you can also self-host a git repository
[2023-11-08 16:29:29] <Lucifer_arma> I'm actually wondering if it would be better to write up a little c++ app to manage multiple armagetronad-dedicated instances and include it in the distribution.  Then someone could adapt it to be a windows service, and whatever mac os uses
[2023-11-08 16:29:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm actually wondering if it would be better to write up a little c++ app to manage multiple armagetronad-dedicated instances and include it in the distribution.  Then someone could adapt it to be a windows service, and whatever mac os uses
[2023-11-08 16:30:36] <Lucifer_arma> I've written enough stuff that does exactly this that I'm wondering what the odds are the scripts y'all are talking about might have some of my old code in them ;)
[2023-11-08 16:30:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've written enough stuff that does exactly this that I'm wondering what the odds are the scripts y'all are talking about might have some of my old code in them ;)
[2023-11-08 16:30:44] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Is docker / containderd an option for you?
[2023-11-08 16:30:45] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Is docker / containderd an option for you?
[2023-11-08 16:31:01] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| It's super easy to manage multiple servers that way.
[2023-11-08 16:31:02] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| It's super easy to manage multiple servers that way.
[2023-11-08 16:31:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| And across multiple physical servers.
[2023-11-08 16:31:10] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| And across multiple physical servers.
[2023-11-08 16:31:27] <Lucifer_arma> to the extent that I can use it, yes.  I actually want to use my arma server to learn how to use puppet, since that's what killed me in that last interview
[2023-11-08 16:31:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| to the extent that I can use it, yes.  I actually want to use my arma server to learn how to use puppet, since that's what killed me in that last interview
[2023-11-08 16:32:29] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| We just use puppet for the base server and run containers
[2023-11-08 16:32:30] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| We just use puppet for the base server and run containers
[2023-11-08 16:32:32] <Lucifer_arma> and for linux users, systemd is the basic way for end-users to run their own dedicated servers.  We would have already supported it if I had been more present.  ;)
[2023-11-08 16:32:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and for linux users, systemd is the basic way for end-users to run their own dedicated servers.  We would have already supported it if I had been more present.  ;)
[2023-11-08 16:33:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Thats fair. Go the route of handling multiple configs like open VPN and you're in business.
[2023-11-08 16:33:22] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Thats fair. Go the route of handling multiple configs like open VPN and you're in business.
[2023-11-08 16:33:56] <Lucifer_arma> we already have mechanisms for it, I'm just not remembering them right now.  I used to run like three different servers on my own computer
[2023-11-08 16:33:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we already have mechanisms for it, I'm just not remembering them right now.  I used to run like three different servers on my own computer
[2023-11-08 16:34:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| For a systemd unit for a single server in a multi-server setup: 
[2023-11-08 16:34:32] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| For a systemd unit for a single server in a multi-server setup: 
[2023-11-08 16:34:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ```
[2023-11-08 16:34:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ```
[2023-11-08 16:34:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Environment="userdatadir=/serverlocation/" "vardir=/serverlocation/var" "userconfigdir=/serverlocation/config" "resourcedir=/serverlocation/resource"
[2023-11-08 16:34:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Environment="userdatadir=/serverlocation/" "vardir=/serverlocation/var" "userconfigdir=/serverlocation/config" "resourcedir=/serverlocation/resource"
[2023-11-08 16:34:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Exec=/path/to/tron/ --resourcedir $resourcedir --userconfigdir $userconfigdir --vardir $vardir --userdatadir $userdatadir
[2023-11-08 16:34:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Exec=/path/to/tron/ --resourcedir $resourcedir --userconfigdir $userconfigdir --vardir $vardir --userdatadir $userdatadir
[2023-11-08 16:34:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ```
[2023-11-08 16:34:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ```
[2023-11-08 16:34:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| might need to adjust that a teensy bit but I think the general approach is right
[2023-11-08 16:34:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| might need to adjust that a teensy bit but I think the general approach is right
[2023-11-08 16:35:13] <Lucifer_arma> I was wondering what my server would be like if I took the current grid dimensions and made a square sumo area out of it, then expanded the grid dimensions a bit to make an area outside
[2023-11-08 16:35:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was wondering what my server would be like if I took the current grid dimensions and made a square sumo area out of it, then expanded the grid dimensions a bit to make an area outside
[2023-11-08 16:35:17] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the caveat to running tron under systemd is that I don';t think there's a way to access the console directly. The only access you have is in the game.
[2023-11-08 16:35:17] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the caveat to running tron under systemd is that I don';t think there's a way to access the console directly. The only access you have is in the game.
[2023-11-08 16:35:30] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's a big caveat
[2023-11-08 16:35:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, that's a big caveat
[2023-11-08 16:36:04] <Lucifer_arma> it's why I was considering just writing a little c++ app for it.  I could have it open a tcp socket or something that you could connect to with telnet to get the console
[2023-11-08 16:36:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's why I was considering just writing a little c++ app for it.  I could have it open a tcp socket or something that you could connect to with telnet to get the console
[2023-11-08 16:36:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| More trouble than its worth tbh. It's easier just to use a boot script in systemd to trigger the server sin screen on reboot
[2023-11-08 16:36:49] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| More trouble than its worth tbh. It's easier just to use a boot script in systemd to trigger the server sin screen on reboot
[2023-11-08 16:36:50] <Lucifer_arma> but you can tail the logs just fine if you need read-only access to the console
[2023-11-08 16:36:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but you can tail the logs just fine if you need read-only access to the console
[2023-11-08 16:37:16] <Lucifer_arma> and you've been able to send commands to the console from a client for years
[2023-11-08 16:37:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and you've been able to send commands to the console from a client for years
[2023-11-08 16:37:36] <Lucifer_arma> I assume that's still in there somewhere and working
[2023-11-08 16:37:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I assume that's still in there somewhere and working
[2023-11-08 16:38:37] <Lucifer_arma> I disagree with it being more trouble than it's worth.  There's been a standing goal of factoring out the hybrid client/server to have the client spawn a server for local game and for hosting, the way freeciv and other games do it
[2023-11-08 16:38:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I disagree with it being more trouble than it's worth.  There's been a standing goal of factoring out the hybrid client/server to have the client spawn a server for local game and for hosting, the way freeciv and other games do it
[2023-11-08 16:39:25] <Lucifer_arma> I don't know if we'll ever achieve that goal, but it's the kind of goal that simply pursuing it generates a lot of useful features ;)
[2023-11-08 16:39:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't know if we'll ever achieve that goal, but it's the kind of goal that simply pursuing it generates a lot of useful features ;)
[2023-11-08 16:40:45] <Lucifer_arma> I could actually have a python script working within a few hours that does all of this, I just don't know that I want python as a runtime dependency for anything that gets distributed with arma
[2023-11-08 16:40:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I could actually have a python script working within a few hours that does all of this, I just don't know that I want python as a runtime dependency for anything that gets distributed with arma
[2023-11-08 16:43:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| you mean, a server is booted when it receives a player, and instead just advertises it's "ready" status?
[2023-11-08 16:43:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| you mean, a server is booted when it receives a player, and instead just advertises it's "ready" status?
[2023-11-08 16:43:40] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| or do you mean spawnable via an external console of some sort?
[2023-11-08 16:43:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| or do you mean spawnable via an external console of some sort?
[2023-11-08 16:44:29] <Lucifer_arma> no, I mean how the game handles local game right now.  It's part of the client.  So when you select local game, the game you play is running inside the client.
[2023-11-08 16:44:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, I mean how the game handles local game right now.  It's part of the client.  So when you select local game, the game you play is running inside the client.
[2023-11-08 16:44:41] <Lucifer_arma> When you select host game, then the client becomes a server
[2023-11-08 16:44:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| When you select host game, then the client becomes a server
[2023-11-08 16:45:16] <Lucifer_arma> freeciv, for example, actually spawns a server process and connects to it when you play.  If you're playing a local game, that server process doesn't report to their master server or allow outside connections
[2023-11-08 16:45:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| freeciv, for example, actually spawns a server process and connects to it when you play.  If you're playing a local game, that server process doesn't report to their master server or allow outside connections
[2023-11-08 16:45:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, I see, so you connect to an amragetron-as-a-service of sorts from within armagetron itself
[2023-11-08 16:45:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, I see, so you connect to an amragetron-as-a-service of sorts from within armagetron itself
[2023-11-08 16:45:45] <Lucifer_arma> I have a personal standing issue with rubber behaving different in local game than online games
[2023-11-08 16:45:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I have a personal standing issue with rubber behaving different in local game than online games
[2023-11-08 16:45:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Wait, can't you turn talk_to_master on in a local game?
[2023-11-08 16:45:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Wait, can't you turn talk_to_master on in a local game?
[2023-11-08 16:46:23] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, so when you select local game, it would spawn the server process and simply not accept external connections
[2023-11-08 16:46:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, so when you select local game, it would spawn the server process and simply not accept external connections
[2023-11-08 16:46:33] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think so.  You can in "host game", but not in local game
[2023-11-08 16:46:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't think so.  You can in "host game", but not in local game
[2023-11-08 16:47:37] <Lucifer_arma> and keep in mind, this factoring I'm talking about is a shit-ton of work that I'm pretty sure nobody has time for.  But if I throw together a server manager process, I'd create the basic objects needed for it.
[2023-11-08 16:47:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and keep in mind, this factoring I'm talking about is a shit-ton of work that I'm pretty sure nobody has time for.  But if I throw together a server manager process, I'd create the basic objects needed for it.
[2023-11-08 16:47:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, right, gotcha. Isn't that the expected behaviour, though? If you want any form of network play, multiplayer would have been the expected submenu I would have thought
[2023-11-08 16:47:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, right, gotcha. Isn't that the expected behaviour, though? If you want any form of network play, multiplayer would have been the expected submenu I would have thought
[2023-11-08 16:48:33] <Lucifer_arma> idk what would be the expected behavior.  For me, the expected behavior is that a server process gets spawned.  We've gone rounds on this one over the years, because other games don't necessarily do that either
[2023-11-08 16:48:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| idk what would be the expected behavior.  For me, the expected behavior is that a server process gets spawned.  We've gone rounds on this one over the years, because other games don't necessarily do that either
[2023-11-08 16:48:36] <Lucifer_arma> but some do
[2023-11-08 16:48:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but some do
[2023-11-08 16:48:55] <Lucifer_arma> I wonder what hedgewars does
[2023-11-08 16:48:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I wonder what hedgewars does
[2023-11-08 16:49:36] <Lucifer_arma> inetd is the traditional service to use here to wrap something like armagetron, but I remember looking into it years ago and deciding it was the wrong approach
[2023-11-08 16:49:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| inetd is the traditional service to use here to wrap something like armagetron, but I remember looking into it years ago and deciding it was the wrong approach
[2023-11-08 16:49:50] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, I think I see what you mean. You want the actual armagetron client to spawn a separate program entirely
[2023-11-08 16:49:50] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, I think I see what you mean. You want the actual armagetron client to spawn a separate program entirely
[2023-11-08 16:50:05] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, and then connect to it, and that's how you'd play a local game
[2023-11-08 16:50:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, and then connect to it, and that's how you'd play a local game
[2023-11-08 16:50:37] <Lucifer_arma> the parent process, the client, would connect to the stdin/stdout pipes
[2023-11-08 16:50:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the parent process, the client, would connect to the stdin/stdout pipes
[2023-11-08 16:50:48] <Lucifer_arma> from the player's point of view, nothing would change except that rubber would behave the same :)
[2023-11-08 16:50:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| from the player's point of view, nothing would change except that rubber would behave the same :)
[2023-11-08 16:52:49] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That would be an awful lot of text to shove in the client, maybe that should be optional. As for spawning a separate process, it's not hard - `std::system("<application spawn with parms here>")`
[2023-11-08 16:52:49] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That would be an awful lot of text to shove in the client, maybe that should be optional. As for spawning a separate process, it's not hard - `std::system("<application spawn with parms here>")`
[2023-11-08 16:53:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| then you can presumably use those preconfigured parameters to open the console specifically to the client
[2023-11-08 16:53:21] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| then you can presumably use those preconfigured parameters to open the console specifically to the client
[2023-11-08 16:54:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| The only thing I can think of is that with this approach, the game wouldn't pause when the escape menu si triggered, which I think it does currently
[2023-11-08 16:54:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| The only thing I can think of is that with this approach, the game wouldn't pause when the escape menu si triggered, which I think it does currently
[2023-11-08 16:54:35] <Lucifer_arma> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55490271/c-best-way-to-launch-another-process
[2023-11-08 16:54:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://stackoverflow.com/questions/55490271/c-best-way-to-launch-another-process
[2023-11-08 16:54:53] <Lucifer_arma> the std::system call waits for the process to finish.  We need it to run async
[2023-11-08 16:54:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the std::system call waits for the process to finish.  We need it to run async
[2023-11-08 16:55:24] <Lucifer_arma> we would have to add a pause command to the server to retain that particular functionality
[2023-11-08 16:55:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we would have to add a pause command to the server to retain that particular functionality
[2023-11-08 16:55:27] <Lucifer_arma> pause/resume
[2023-11-08 16:55:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| pause/resume
[2023-11-08 16:55:47] <Lucifer_arma> we're already using boost, so that boost class is the write approach
[2023-11-08 16:55:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we're already using boost, so that boost class is the write approach
[2023-11-08 16:55:57] <Lucifer_arma> *right
[2023-11-08 16:55:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| *right
[2023-11-08 16:56:03] <Lucifer_arma> and I claim to be a righter
[2023-11-08 16:56:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and I claim to be a righter
[2023-11-08 16:56:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Yes, but that would open a vulnerability on public servers, in that an attacker might be able to figure out how ti initiate the pause/resume behaviour
[2023-11-08 16:56:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Yes, but that would open a vulnerability on public servers, in that an attacker might be able to figure out how ti initiate the pause/resume behaviour
[2023-11-08 16:56:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf its nto that important
[2023-11-08 16:56:22] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf its nto that important
[2023-11-08 16:57:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| hmm, I can't claim to know much abotu c++ in general, but that seems advantageous. Might be handy having certain other things be multithreaded too
[2023-11-08 16:57:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| hmm, I can't claim to know much abotu c++ in general, but that seems advantageous. Might be handy having certain other things be multithreaded too
[2023-11-08 16:57:11] <Lucifer_arma> no, but the vulnerability is easily closed by two things: 1) remembering that you still need admin remote access to use it, and 2) disabling pause/resume for non-local game
[2023-11-08 16:57:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, but the vulnerability is easily closed by two things: 1) remembering that you still need admin remote access to use it, and 2) disabling pause/resume for non-local game
[2023-11-08 16:57:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| It would be easier only to allow pause/resume from 127.0.0.1
[2023-11-08 16:57:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| It would be easier only to allow pause/resume from 127.0.0.1
[2023-11-08 16:57:53] <Lucifer_arma> well, back in the day, the argument against multithreading was largely cross-platform issues that are gone now.  The other main argument was being able to support older hardware
[2023-11-08 16:57:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, back in the day, the argument against multithreading was largely cross-platform issues that are gone now.  The other main argument was being able to support older hardware
[2023-11-08 16:58:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Yeah I think those arguments are mostly moot now
[2023-11-08 16:58:22] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Yeah I think those arguments are mostly moot now
[2023-11-08 16:58:27] <Lucifer_arma> but nowadays, that "older hardware" is still multicore CPUs.  I'm curious what zmanuel thinks about it with all the hardware developments since we last talked about it
[2023-11-08 16:58:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but nowadays, that "older hardware" is still multicore CPUs.  I'm curious what zmanuel thinks about it with all the hardware developments since we last talked about it
[2023-11-08 16:59:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| technically some things are kinda multithreaded, we use zthread for authentication
[2023-11-08 16:59:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| technically some things are kinda multithreaded, we use zthread for authentication
[2023-11-08 16:59:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| but that's server-side
[2023-11-08 16:59:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| but that's server-side
[2023-11-08 17:00:20] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, adn I think we had to adopt zthread because it stopped being actively maintained at some point
[2023-11-08 17:00:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, adn I think we had to adopt zthread because it stopped being actively maintained at some point
[2023-11-08 17:01:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oof, zthread on github is... rather outdated
[2023-11-08 17:01:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oof, zthread on github is... rather outdated
[2023-11-08 17:01:40] <Lucifer_arma> but if a malicious attacker gained remote admin access, I'm not so sure that having pause/resume capabilities is signifcantly more disruptive than any other command they also have access to at that point
[2023-11-08 17:01:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but if a malicious attacker gained remote admin access, I'm not so sure that having pause/resume capabilities is signifcantly more disruptive than any other command they also have access to at that point
[2023-11-08 17:01:54] <Lucifer_arma> tbf, zthread *was* actively maintained when we started with it
[2023-11-08 17:01:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| tbf, zthread *was* actively maintained when we started with it
[2023-11-08 17:03:20] <Lucifer_arma> but I think we should consider forgetting about threads completely and moving to multiprocessing whenever we'd use a thread, with the possible exception of the networking, because Linux is getting a new scheduler soon that should be a lot higher performance
[2023-11-08 17:03:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I think we should consider forgetting about threads completely and moving to multiprocessing whenever we'd use a thread, with the possible exception of the networking, because Linux is getting a new scheduler soon that should be a lot higher performance
[2023-11-08 17:03:36] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think it's the same as the 2.4->2.6 change, but it's still coming :)
[2023-11-08 17:03:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't think it's the same as the 2.4->2.6 change, but it's still coming :)
[2023-11-08 17:03:51] <Lucifer_arma> (it's already out, we're just waiting for distributions to adopt it)
[2023-11-08 17:03:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (it's already out, we're just waiting for distributions to adopt it)
[2023-11-08 17:05:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Would that not involve a jump in c++ versioning too? It might be well worth it, but its not a small step
[2023-11-08 17:05:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Would that not involve a jump in c++ versioning too? It might be well worth it, but its not a small step
[2023-11-08 17:05:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| incidentally, looks like someone else is maintaining zthread now
[2023-11-08 17:05:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| incidentally, looks like someone else is maintaining zthread now
[2023-11-08 17:05:56] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think so, we're already at c++-17 or something like that
[2023-11-08 17:05:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't think so, we're already at c++-17 or something like that
[2023-11-08 17:06:28] <Lucifer_arma> the main issue is still memory sharing.  Processes don't share memory.  And forking from a multithreaded process is still bug-ridden, so we'd have to spawn
[2023-11-08 17:06:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the main issue is still memory sharing.  Processes don't share memory.  And forking from a multithreaded process is still bug-ridden, so we'd have to spawn
[2023-11-08 17:07:06] <Lucifer_arma> I started writing an event loop, though, and whether it's still there or not doesn't matter because we can still use an event loop for sharing data between processes
[2023-11-08 17:07:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I started writing an event loop, though, and whether it's still there or not doesn't matter because we can still use an event loop for sharing data between processes
[2023-11-08 17:08:03] <Lucifer_arma> I've been doing so much with multiprocessing lately that this is just how I'm thinking, tbh.  I think I'm just going to worry about getting multiple servers running as a single systemd service for now.
[2023-11-08 17:08:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've been doing so much with multiprocessing lately that this is just how I'm thinking, tbh.  I think I'm just going to worry about getting multiple servers running as a single systemd service for now.
[2023-11-08 17:08:41] <Lucifer_arma> after that, I'm actually much more interested in a scripting engine, and I think that's a decision that time has made for us over the years, too
[2023-11-08 17:08:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| after that, I'm actually much more interested in a scripting engine, and I think that's a decision that time has made for us over the years, too
[2023-11-08 17:09:15] <Lucifer_arma> it's either python or lua.  Those are pretty much the industry standards for game scripting
[2023-11-08 17:09:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's either python or lua.  Those are pretty much the industry standards for game scripting
[2023-11-08 17:10:31] <Lucifer_arma> but arma, as a priority, still has to be balanced against the stockanalyst and my writing, and I'm working full time.  so don't get your hopes up until you've seen a thousand or so lines of code from me
[2023-11-08 17:10:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but arma, as a priority, still has to be balanced against the stockanalyst and my writing, and I'm working full time.  so don't get your hopes up until you've seen a thousand or so lines of code from me
[2023-11-08 17:11:20] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| get your priorities straight
[2023-11-08 17:11:20] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| get your priorities straight
[2023-11-08 17:11:21] <Lucifer_arma> but I have basically nothing going on in my life, so I want to rebuild it this time with all the stuff that actually matters to me in it
[2023-11-08 17:11:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I have basically nothing going on in my life, so I want to rebuild it this time with all the stuff that actually matters to me in it
[2023-11-08 17:11:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| scripting as in, game-modifying scripts?
[2023-11-08 17:11:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| scripting as in, game-modifying scripts?
[2023-11-08 17:12:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| python already works with tron
[2023-11-08 17:12:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| python already works with tron
[2023-11-08 17:12:22] <Lucifer_arma> I thought we were still in limbo with a bunch of ruby stuff that wasn't quite integrated
[2023-11-08 17:12:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I thought we were still in limbo with a bunch of ruby stuff that wasn't quite integrated
[2023-11-08 17:12:31] <Lucifer_arma> I see the ruby stuff in the source tree
[2023-11-08 17:12:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I see the ruby stuff in the source tree
[2023-11-08 17:13:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I think I remember in theory any lang would work, provided it has a compiler installed that will run it. I could be wrong in that
[2023-11-08 17:13:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I think I remember in theory any lang would work, provided it has a compiler installed that will run it. I could be wrong in that
[2023-11-08 17:13:40] <Lucifer_arma> this would be things like the ai's are written in a scripting language.  The scripts would run in the game process and have access to internal state
[2023-11-08 17:13:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| this would be things like the ai's are written in a scripting language.  The scripts would run in the game process and have access to internal state
[2023-11-08 17:14:03] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, in theory, but in practice, we have to settle on a single language so that scripts can be shared :)
[2023-11-08 17:14:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, in theory, but in practice, we have to settle on a single language so that scripts can be shared :)
[2023-11-08 17:15:12] <Lucifer_arma> ideally, all the top-level login in gGame.cpp would be factored into script(s).  So the round/match logic would be scripted, for example.  Tutorials would be scripts (they may already be, I've never looked at them).  AI's would be scripts.
[2023-11-08 17:15:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ideally, all the top-level login in gGame.cpp would be factored into script(s).  So the round/match logic would be scripted, for example.  Tutorials would be scripts (they may already be, I've never looked at them).  AI's would be scripts.
[2023-11-08 17:15:41] <Lucifer_arma> fortress/sumo would be scripts
[2023-11-08 17:15:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| fortress/sumo would be scripts
[2023-11-08 17:16:27] <Lucifer_arma> then we could create a generic network object as in an object that appears on the grid, make it available to the resource system for modeling/rendering, and use scripts to provide game logic
[2023-11-08 17:16:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| then we could create a generic network object as in an object that appears on the grid, make it available to the resource system for modeling/rendering, and use scripts to provide game logic
[2023-11-08 17:16:40] <Lucifer_arma> and that's how we'd get CTF into the game
[2023-11-08 17:16:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and that's how we'd get CTF into the game
[2023-11-08 17:16:46] <Lucifer_arma> and shooting, and styball
[2023-11-08 17:16:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and shooting, and styball
[2023-11-08 17:17:20] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| hopefully will stop half the playerbase from crashing in between rounds in those modes too
[2023-11-08 17:17:21] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| hopefully will stop half the playerbase from crashing in between rounds in those modes too
[2023-11-08 17:17:49] <Lucifer_arma> a big part of the problem with those modes is that they use zones as a hack to make everything happen
[2023-11-08 17:17:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| a big part of the problem with those modes is that they use zones as a hack to make everything happen
[2023-11-08 17:18:00] <Lucifer_arma> it was a nice idea when pig was originally doing it, but nobody expected it to get popular
[2023-11-08 17:18:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it was a nice idea when pig was originally doing it, but nobody expected it to get popular
[2023-11-08 17:18:28] <Lucifer_arma> philippeqc and I had numerous discussions (arguments) about it :)
[2023-11-08 17:18:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| philippeqc and I had numerous discussions (arguments) about it :)
[2023-11-08 17:18:33] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| is it significantly different from fort/sumo zones? That's not causing the same kind of problem
[2023-11-08 17:18:33] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| is it significantly different from fort/sumo zones? That's not causing the same kind of problem
[2023-11-08 17:18:43] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| Seems to be the longer length of round / respawning causing most of the problem
[2023-11-08 17:18:43] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| Seems to be the longer length of round / respawning causing most of the problem
[2023-11-08 17:19:27] <Lucifer_arma> I don't have an answer to that.  I know it used to be the length of rounds that was an issue, and respawning was definitely part of it, but zmanuel has been doing a lot of tweaks over the years I haven't kept track of
[2023-11-08 17:19:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't have an answer to that.  I know it used to be the length of rounds that was an issue, and respawning was definitely part of it, but zmanuel has been doing a lot of tweaks over the years I haven't kept track of
[2023-11-08 17:20:43] <Lucifer_arma> last I heard, those issues are gone in 0.4, but nobody's been able to add CTF/styball to it
[2023-11-08 17:20:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| last I heard, those issues are gone in 0.4, but nobody's been able to add CTF/styball to it
[2023-11-08 17:21:01] <Lucifer_arma> but I was deep in active addiction at the time, so my memory is questionable for this
[2023-11-08 17:21:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I was deep in active addiction at the time, so my memory is questionable for this
[2023-11-08 17:22:37] <Lucifer_arma> but if I were to start adding scripting to the game engine, I'd start with AIs.  I really want AIs that play fortress
[2023-11-08 17:22:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but if I were to start adding scripting to the game engine, I'd start with AIs.  I really want AIs that play fortress
[2023-11-08 17:38:25] <Lucifer_arma> odd.  Up until recently, I'd have picked lua as the scripting language because of how it embeds and it's generally higher performance than python because of that
[2023-11-08 17:38:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| odd.  Up until recently, I'd have picked lua as the scripting language because of how it embeds and it's generally higher performance than python because of that
[2023-11-08 17:38:48] <Lucifer_arma> but python's about to get significant changes to remove the GIL, which makes it more attractive than lua again
[2023-11-08 17:38:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but python's about to get significant changes to remove the GIL, which makes it more attractive than lua again
[2023-11-08 17:45:30] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| re AIs that play fortress: check out the server "fort but its all bots"... it needs a lot more work but it's something
[2023-11-08 17:45:32] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| re AIs that play fortress: check out the server "fort but its all bots"... it needs a lot more work but it's something
[2023-11-08 17:46:10] <Lucifer_arma> does the ruby stuff even work anymore?
[2023-11-08 17:46:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| does the ruby stuff even work anymore?
[2023-11-08 17:46:22] <Lucifer_arma> I just built with ruby support, but didn't see any signs of ruby in the build
[2023-11-08 17:46:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I just built with ruby support, but didn't see any signs of ruby in the build
[2023-11-08 17:46:54] <Lucifer_arma> I'll check out that server.  Does it use some kind of scripting, or is it a custom build?
[2023-11-08 17:46:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll check out that server.  Does it use some kind of scripting, or is it a custom build?
[2023-11-08 17:51:53] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| it's using a branch based on +ap which implements scripting stuff with Duktape, which is an implementation of (outdated) javascript: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-xtw/armagetronad/ap-js
[2023-11-08 17:51:54] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| it's using a branch based on +ap which implements scripting stuff with Duktape, which is an implementation of (outdated) javascript: https://code.launchpad.net/~armagetronad-xtw/armagetronad/ap-js
[2023-11-08 18:05:15] <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'm going to bring javascript into arma
[2023-11-08 18:05:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh yeah, there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'm going to bring javascript into arma
[2023-11-08 18:05:58] <Lucifer_arma> but it might be worth seeing how they did it.  Except that we do sorta already have scripting, it just never got fully integrated, and it's ruby
[2023-11-08 18:05:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but it might be worth seeing how they did it.  Except that we do sorta already have scripting, it just never got fully integrated, and it's ruby
[2023-11-08 18:30:33] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can use gitlab the same way as github
[2023-11-08 18:30:33] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can use gitlab the same way as github
[2023-11-08 18:32:51] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, why not implement something like rcon?
[2023-11-08 18:32:53] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, why not implement something like rcon?
[2023-11-08 18:34:23] <Lucifer_arma> honestly, there's no compelling reason to use rcon directly, based on what I'm reading
[2023-11-08 18:34:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| honestly, there's no compelling reason to use rcon directly, based on what I'm reading
[2023-11-08 18:34:43] <Lucifer_arma> the difficult part is adding the tcp socket to the server, but once that's there, well, working with tcp is easy
[2023-11-08 18:34:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the difficult part is adding the tcp socket to the server, but once that's there, well, working with tcp is easy
[2023-11-08 18:35:05] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| well there's the remote admin feature so i guess that fills that role
[2023-11-08 18:35:06] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| well there's the remote admin feature so i guess that fills that role
[2023-11-08 18:35:33] <Lucifer_arma> sorta.  The remote admin uses a connected client, which takes up a space for a player
[2023-11-08 18:35:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| sorta.  The remote admin uses a connected client, which takes up a space for a player
[2023-11-08 18:36:05] <Lucifer_arma> a remote console is different in that it's not a game object at all, just a way to connect to the server's console.
[2023-11-08 18:36:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| a remote console is different in that it's not a game object at all, just a way to connect to the server's console.
[2023-11-08 18:36:14] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| true
[2023-11-08 18:36:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| true
[2023-11-08 18:36:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| on bzflag, there's bzadmin but its a cli only client that joins as observer and doesnt load the map, not really rcon either
[2023-11-08 18:36:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| on bzflag, there's bzadmin but its a cli only client that joins as observer and doesnt load the map, not really rcon either
[2023-11-08 18:37:18] <Lucifer_arma> I would put that in a wrapper, no problem, because the wrapper would just create a subprocess for the server and connect to stdin/stdout.  Exporting that as a remote console is trivial.
[2023-11-08 18:37:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I would put that in a wrapper, no problem, because the wrapper would just create a subprocess for the server and connect to stdin/stdout.  Exporting that as a remote console is trivial.
[2023-11-08 18:37:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| initds expect no forking to happen on the program
[2023-11-08 18:37:50] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| initds expect no forking to happen on the program
[2023-11-08 18:38:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| if it forks it loses tracking
[2023-11-08 18:38:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| if it forks it loses tracking
[2023-11-08 18:38:16] <Lucifer_arma> systemd tracks subprocesses, that's why it's replaced init.d
[2023-11-08 18:38:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| systemd tracks subprocesses, that's why it's replaced init.d
[2023-11-08 18:38:23] <Lucifer_arma> among various reasons
[2023-11-08 18:38:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| among various reasons
[2023-11-08 18:38:25] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-08 18:38:26] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-08 18:38:42] <Lucifer_arma> I'm surprised there's still so much anti-systemd sentiment, considering that it's taken over pretty much completely
[2023-11-08 18:38:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm surprised there's still so much anti-systemd sentiment, considering that it's taken over pretty much completely
[2023-11-08 18:39:22] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suggest having a option to not fork, for those other initds
[2023-11-08 18:39:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suggest having a option to not fork, for those other initds
[2023-11-08 18:39:30] <Lucifer_arma> but you could always get around it with init.d by having a wrapper that does track subprocesses
[2023-11-08 18:39:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but you could always get around it with init.d by having a wrapper that does track subprocesses
[2023-11-08 18:39:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| systemd is a fucking mess, that's why everyone hates it. It's still handy as fuck
[2023-11-08 18:39:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ok fair but its more work
[2023-11-08 18:39:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| systemd is a fucking mess, that's why everyone hates it. It's still handy as fuck
[2023-11-08 18:39:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ok fair but its more work
[2023-11-08 18:40:09] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah its violating the principles of what a initd should be
[2023-11-08 18:40:09] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah its violating the principles of what a initd should be
[2023-11-08 18:40:43] <Lucifer_arma> I'm biased, I have to admit.  I was literally about to write a system services program when systemd got started.  They beat me to it pretty quickly, but they took nearly the same approach I was going to
[2023-11-08 18:40:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm biased, I have to admit.  I was literally about to write a system services program when systemd got started.  They beat me to it pretty quickly, but they took nearly the same approach I was going to
[2023-11-08 18:40:53] <Lucifer_arma> I can't speak to what directions they went afterwards, though
[2023-11-08 18:40:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can't speak to what directions they went afterwards, though
[2023-11-08 18:41:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| upstart wasnt as bad as systemd lol
[2023-11-08 18:41:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| upstart wasnt as bad as systemd lol
[2023-11-08 18:41:36] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think systemd violates those principles so much as it incorporates a lot more
[2023-11-08 18:41:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't think systemd violates those principles so much as it incorporates a lot more
[2023-11-08 18:41:49] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, at its heart, it does what it needs to do: manages all system services
[2023-11-08 18:41:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I mean, at its heart, it does what it needs to do: manages all system services
[2023-11-08 18:42:27] <Lucifer_arma> and in the process it cut boot times by an order of magnitude
[2023-11-08 18:42:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and in the process it cut boot times by an order of magnitude
[2023-11-08 18:42:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| it should do one thing not provide a lot of more things, that makes it unpredictible
[2023-11-08 18:42:50] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| it should do one thing not provide a lot of more things, that makes it unpredictible
[2023-11-08 18:42:59] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| and possibly vulnerable
[2023-11-08 18:42:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| and possibly vulnerable
[2023-11-08 18:43:14] <Lucifer_arma> it does do "one thing", it's just that that one thing has expanded in definition a lot over the years
[2023-11-08 18:43:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it does do "one thing", it's just that that one thing has expanded in definition a lot over the years
[2023-11-08 18:43:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| it adds unnecessary complexity
[2023-11-08 18:43:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| it adds unnecessary complexity
[2023-11-08 18:43:22] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay fair
[2023-11-08 18:43:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay fair
[2023-11-08 18:43:29] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| not everyone agrees
[2023-11-08 18:43:30] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| not everyone agrees
[2023-11-08 18:43:51] <Lucifer_arma> back when it was init.d, it was just "start shit on boot and keep it running" and every daemon was single-threaded and single process
[2023-11-08 18:43:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| back when it was init.d, it was just "start shit on boot and keep it running" and every daemon was single-threaded and single process
[2023-11-08 18:44:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah i see
[2023-11-08 18:44:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah i see
[2023-11-08 18:44:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| daemons are multithreaded but single process on the classic init.d forks
[2023-11-08 18:44:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| daemons are multithreaded but single process on the classic init.d forks
[2023-11-08 18:44:42] <Lucifer_arma> also, there were only a few things to start, so boot times weren't a big deal
[2023-11-08 18:44:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, there were only a few things to start, so boot times weren't a big deal
[2023-11-08 18:44:44] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i think
[2023-11-08 18:44:44] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i think
[2023-11-08 18:45:24] <Lucifer_arma> but now we have two service managers, because the userspace needs one, too, so we got dbus
[2023-11-08 18:45:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but now we have two service managers, because the userspace needs one, too, so we got dbus
[2023-11-08 18:45:58] <Lucifer_arma> I think the biggest issue here is that Linux should have been a microkernel, and it wasn't.  GNU had that much right, if only they'd actually made a kernel
[2023-11-08 18:45:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think the biggest issue here is that Linux should have been a microkernel, and it wasn't.  GNU had that much right, if only they'd actually made a kernel
[2023-11-08 18:46:14] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| they had made a kernel, GNU Hurd
[2023-11-08 18:46:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| they had made a kernel, GNU Hurd
[2023-11-08 18:46:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| but its abandoned
[2023-11-08 18:46:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| but its abandoned
[2023-11-08 18:46:28] <Lucifer_arma> and that's like the fourth kernel they started and quit
[2023-11-08 18:46:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and that's like the fourth kernel they started and quit
[2023-11-08 18:46:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| TIL
[2023-11-08 18:46:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| TIL
[2023-11-08 18:46:46] <Lucifer_arma> Linus Torvalds has repeatedly said that if GNU had made a kernel, he'd never have started Linux
[2023-11-08 18:46:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Linus Torvalds has repeatedly said that if GNU had made a kernel, he'd never have started Linux
[2023-11-08 18:48:34] <Lucifer_arma> but GNU's problem wasn't technical, it was a project management problem.  If they'd developed their kernel with the kind of management structure that Linux has, we'd be way ahead of where we're at right now
[2023-11-08 18:48:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but GNU's problem wasn't technical, it was a project management problem.  If they'd developed their kernel with the kind of management structure that Linux has, we'd be way ahead of where we're at right now
[2023-11-08 18:48:52] <Lucifer_arma> have you read the Cathedral and the Bazaar essay?
[2023-11-08 18:48:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| have you read the Cathedral and the Bazaar essay?
[2023-11-08 18:48:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| no
[2023-11-08 18:48:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| no
[2023-11-08 18:49:13] <Lucifer_arma> you should read it.  It's still every bit as relevant as it was when originally written
[2023-11-08 18:49:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you should read it.  It's still every bit as relevant as it was when originally written
[2023-11-08 18:49:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| what is it about?
[2023-11-08 18:49:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| what is it about?
[2023-11-08 18:49:35] <Lucifer_arma> it's the original GNU vs Linux text :)
[2023-11-08 18:49:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's the original GNU vs Linux text :)
[2023-11-08 18:49:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ohhh
[2023-11-08 18:49:45] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ohhh
[2023-11-08 18:49:52] <Lucifer_arma> it's about managing open source projects
[2023-11-08 18:49:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's about managing open source projects
[2023-11-08 18:50:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| will read some time, i hope
[2023-11-08 18:50:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| will read some time, i hope
[2023-11-08 18:50:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i stopped reading books many years ago unfortunately
[2023-11-08 18:50:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i stopped reading books many years ago unfortunately
[2023-11-08 18:50:31] <Lucifer_arma> we've generally followed the bazaar model, as far as that goes, and even with the level of inactivity from the main development team, the community has continued to expand the game all these years
[2023-11-08 18:50:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we've generally followed the bazaar model, as far as that goes, and even with the level of inactivity from the main development team, the community has continued to expand the game all these years
[2023-11-08 18:50:50] <Lucifer_arma> I'm referring to the original essay, not the book.  You can google it up and read it in like 10 minutes.
[2023-11-08 18:50:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm referring to the original essay, not the book.  You can google it up and read it in like 10 minutes.
[2023-11-08 18:50:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh okay
[2023-11-08 18:50:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh okay
[2023-11-08 18:51:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sure then
[2023-11-08 18:51:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sure then
[2023-11-08 18:51:29] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry, i didnt realize you said essay and thought it was a book
[2023-11-08 18:51:30] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry, i didnt realize you said essay and thought it was a book
[2023-11-08 18:51:57] <Lucifer_arma> it's both.  I haven't read the book.  It's by Eric S Raymond, and he later expanded it into a whole book as well as a lecture series
[2023-11-08 18:51:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's both.  I haven't read the book.  It's by Eric S Raymond, and he later expanded it into a whole book as well as a lecture series
[2023-11-08 18:53:30] <Lucifer_arma> canonical embraced the bazaar model, but commercial interests drove a lot of their bad decisions (unity!).  But their good decisions have obviously kept Ubuntu as the biggest distribution
[2023-11-08 18:53:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| canonical embraced the bazaar model, but commercial interests drove a lot of their bad decisions (unity!).  But their good decisions have obviously kept Ubuntu as the biggest distribution
[2023-11-08 18:54:13] <Lucifer_arma> which brings us back to systemd, because the Fedora project put together an alternative that was supposedly better, but systemd is the de facto standard nowadays
[2023-11-08 18:54:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| which brings us back to systemd, because the Fedora project put together an alternative that was supposedly better, but systemd is the de facto standard nowadays
[2023-11-08 18:54:52] <Lucifer_arma> and systemd came from canonical
[2023-11-08 18:54:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and systemd came from canonical
[2023-11-08 18:55:37] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| found it https://users.ece.utexas.edu/~perry/education/382v-s08/papers/raymond.pdf
[2023-11-08 18:55:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| found it https://users.ece.utexas.edu/~perry/education/382v-s08/papers/raymond.pdf
[2023-11-08 18:57:59] * Lucifer_arma wishes he could remember how he ran multiple servers in the past
[2023-11-08 18:57:59] * armagetronbridge 10irc:Lucifer_arma| wishes he could remember how he ran multiple servers in the past
[2023-11-08 19:01:59] <Lucifer_arma> woohoo!  I've been sober for 141 days
[2023-11-08 19:01:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| woohoo!  I've been sober for 141 days
[2023-11-08 19:04:02] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| cheers
[2023-11-08 19:04:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| cheers
[2023-11-08 19:08:43] <Lucifer_arma> ah, we need c++17 for protobuf
[2023-11-08 19:08:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ah, we need c++17 for protobuf
[2023-11-08 19:15:42] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I have determined that ruby support is broken.  SO whatever used to work doesn't work at all anymore
[2023-11-08 19:15:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I have determined that ruby support is broken.  SO whatever used to work doesn't work at all anymore
[2023-11-08 19:16:10] <Lucifer_arma> maybe the first step to scripting is to fix that :/
[2023-11-08 19:16:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| maybe the first step to scripting is to fix that :/
[2023-11-08 19:24:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| is that 0.4 only?
[2023-11-08 19:24:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| is that 0.4 only?
[2023-11-08 19:33:29] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how did canonical get so big in the community?
[2023-11-08 19:33:30] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how did canonical get so big in the community?
[2023-11-08 19:34:25] <Lucifer_arma> canonical makes Ubuntu
[2023-11-08 19:34:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| canonical makes Ubuntu
[2023-11-08 19:34:39] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, it's 0.4 only
[2023-11-08 19:34:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, it's 0.4 only
[2023-11-08 19:34:57] <Lucifer_arma> nemo was working on it in the 0.3 series that only got one release (or two?  I don't remember now)
[2023-11-08 19:34:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| nemo was working on it in the 0.3 series that only got one release (or two?  I don't remember now)
[2023-11-08 19:35:22] <Lucifer_arma> I'm really off task right now.  I should be revising the story I just finished.  :)
[2023-11-08 19:35:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm really off task right now.  I should be revising the story I just finished.  :)
[2023-11-08 19:36:17] <Lucifer_arma> but I can't shake the idea that making the team balancing code scriptable would be the quickest/easiest way to get scripting into the game, and I really want to see how it would be done
[2023-11-08 19:36:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I can't shake the idea that making the team balancing code scriptable would be the quickest/easiest way to get scripting into the game, and I really want to see how it would be done
[2023-11-08 19:36:22] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i know who canonical is, im asking how did they get so important in the community besides of the ubuntu popularity
[2023-11-08 19:36:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i know who canonical is, im asking how did they get so important in the community besides of the ubuntu popularity
[2023-11-08 19:36:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why not lua perhaps?
[2023-11-08 19:36:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why not lua perhaps?
[2023-11-08 19:37:18] <Lucifer_arma> I remember reading about lua and seeing it being pretty easy to embed
[2023-11-08 19:37:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I remember reading about lua and seeing it being pretty easy to embed
[2023-11-08 19:37:24] <Lucifer_arma> that's what it's designed for, after all
[2023-11-08 19:37:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that's what it's designed for, after all
[2023-11-08 19:41:00] <Lucifer_arma> I"m not sure which community you're talking about.  To the extent that they're import here, it's because I'm pretty sure all the devs here that use linux use ubuntu.  I know I do.
[2023-11-08 19:41:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I"m not sure which community you're talking about.  To the extent that they're import here, it's because I'm pretty sure all the devs here that use linux use ubuntu.  I know I do.
[2023-11-08 19:41:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| hmm, is this methodology why canonical named their vcs bazaar bzr?
[2023-11-08 19:41:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| hmm, is this methodology why canonical named their vcs bazaar bzr?
[2023-11-08 19:41:18] <Lucifer_arma> what makes them so important in the oss community is the popularity of ubuntu
[2023-11-08 19:41:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| what makes them so important in the oss community is the popularity of ubuntu
[2023-11-08 19:41:24] <Lucifer_arma> yes, that's why they named it bazaar :)
[2023-11-08 19:41:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yes, that's why they named it bazaar :)
[2023-11-08 19:41:43] <Lucifer_arma> the breezy fork is pretty good, too.  I've been using it for years now.
[2023-11-08 19:41:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the breezy fork is pretty good, too.  I've been using it for years now.
[2023-11-08 19:41:46] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| community in general
[2023-11-08 19:41:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| community in general
[2023-11-08 19:42:20] <Lucifer_arma> commercially, they've done a really good job competing with RedHat, and most of the other american companies have fallen by the wayside
[2023-11-08 19:42:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| commercially, they've done a really good job competing with RedHat, and most of the other american companies have fallen by the wayside
[2023-11-08 19:42:48] <Lucifer_arma> I hear SuSE is still really popular in Europe, but in America, you're either using RHEL or Ubuntu if you're a company
[2023-11-08 19:42:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I hear SuSE is still really popular in Europe, but in America, you're either using RHEL or Ubuntu if you're a company
[2023-11-08 19:42:56] <Lucifer_arma> the company I work for uses Ubuntu :)
[2023-11-08 19:42:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the company I work for uses Ubuntu :)
[2023-11-08 19:42:59] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| or debian
[2023-11-08 19:43:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| or debian
[2023-11-08 19:43:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| or centos
[2023-11-08 19:43:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| or centos
[2023-11-08 19:43:08] <Lucifer_arma> Ubuntu is built on debian
[2023-11-08 19:43:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Ubuntu is built on debian
[2023-11-08 19:43:12] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i know
[2023-11-08 19:43:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i know
[2023-11-08 19:43:15] <Lucifer_arma> centos is ubuntu-derived, iirc
[2023-11-08 19:43:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| centos is ubuntu-derived, iirc
[2023-11-08 19:43:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| debian itself is a thing too
[2023-11-08 19:43:19] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| debian itself is a thing too
[2023-11-08 19:43:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i thought centos is rhel derived
[2023-11-08 19:43:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i thought centos is rhel derived
[2023-11-08 19:43:33] <Lucifer_arma> oh right, it is
[2023-11-08 19:43:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh right, it is
[2023-11-08 19:43:56] <Lucifer_arma> they're having a big fight right now because IBM's RedHat is turning into a bunch of whiny little bitches
[2023-11-08 19:43:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| they're having a big fight right now because IBM's RedHat is turning into a bunch of whiny little bitches
[2023-11-08 19:44:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah...
[2023-11-08 19:44:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah...
[2023-11-08 19:44:24] <Lucifer_arma> debian's like the base distribution, and the second-oldest, iirc (slack is still around)
[2023-11-08 19:44:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| debian's like the base distribution, and the second-oldest, iirc (slack is still around)
[2023-11-08 19:44:49] <Lucifer_arma> the problem with debian is that it's too conservative.  Debian stable might as well be called debian obsolete
[2023-11-08 19:44:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the problem with debian is that it's too conservative.  Debian stable might as well be called debian obsolete
[2023-11-08 19:45:34] <Lucifer_arma> canonical takes debian unstable and turns it into stable
[2023-11-08 19:45:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| canonical takes debian unstable and turns it into stable
[2023-11-08 19:46:43] <Lucifer_arma> I still can't believe RedHat sold out to IBM.  That leaves Canonical as the only real open source company that does what it does
[2023-11-08 19:46:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I still can't believe RedHat sold out to IBM.  That leaves Canonical as the only real open source company that does what it does
[2023-11-08 19:51:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| is that why they started to close off?
[2023-11-08 19:51:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| is that why they started to close off?
[2023-11-08 19:53:49] <Lucifer_arma> I think it's the IBM influence that's doing it, yes
[2023-11-08 19:53:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think it's the IBM influence that's doing it, yes
[2023-11-08 19:54:10] <Lucifer_arma> and they're trying to block centos completely
[2023-11-08 19:54:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and they're trying to block centos completely
[2023-11-08 19:54:39] <Lucifer_arma> and hopefully canonical is taking advantage of the huge opportunity this gives them
[2023-11-08 19:54:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and hopefully canonical is taking advantage of the huge opportunity this gives them
[2023-11-08 19:55:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay
[2023-11-08 19:55:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay
[2023-11-08 19:55:43] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i read the essay
[2023-11-08 19:55:44] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i read the essay
[2023-11-08 19:55:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| it was updated after the original one
[2023-11-08 19:55:50] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| it was updated after the original one
[2023-11-08 19:55:54] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| so it was a bit longer
[2023-11-08 19:55:54] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| so it was a bit longer
[2023-11-08 19:57:44] <Lucifer_arma> but you can see how GNU failed to come up with a kernel because of their cathedral?
[2023-11-08 19:57:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but you can see how GNU failed to come up with a kernel because of their cathedral?
[2023-11-08 19:57:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suppose
[2023-11-08 19:57:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suppose
[2023-11-08 19:58:27] <Lucifer_arma> they could have still pulled it off, but they were too closed to too many ideas
[2023-11-08 19:58:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| they could have still pulled it off, but they were too closed to too many ideas
[2023-11-08 19:59:07] <Lucifer_arma> we have a reflection of that in our refusal to accept the ctf hack.  It's basically that that's kept the sty+ct+ap branch alive, I think.
[2023-11-08 19:59:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we have a reflection of that in our refusal to accept the ctf hack.  It's basically that that's kept the sty+ct+ap branch alive, I think.
[2023-11-08 19:59:29] <Lucifer_arma> I saw on the wiki that there's been a lot of cross-pollinization, too
[2023-11-08 19:59:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I saw on the wiki that there's been a lot of cross-pollinization, too
[2023-11-08 19:59:33] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why?
[2023-11-08 19:59:33] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why?
[2023-11-08 19:59:47] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| @northernscrub you can now upload file types `png, gif, jpg, jpeg, webp, sh, cfg, txt` though it may not be completely perfect. I had to map the mime types to the extensions, so `x-env` for when you use `#!/usr/bin/env bash` for example is set for `.sh` exxtensions, as well as `x-bash` for `#!/bin/bash` on `.sh` file extensions. I set up `.cfg` files as plain text, and finally pl <clipped message>
[2023-11-08 19:59:48] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| @northernscrub you can now upload file types `png, gif, jpg, jpeg, webp, sh, cfg, txt` though it may not be completely perfect. I had to map the mime types to the extensions, so `x-env` for when you use `#!/usr/bin/env bash` for example is set for `.sh` exxtensions, as well as `x-bash` for `#!/bin/bash` on `.sh` file extensions. I set up `.cfg` files as plain text, and finally pl <clipped message>
[2023-11-08 19:59:48] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| ain text was just already mapped.
[2023-11-08 19:59:48] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| ain text was just already mapped.
[2023-11-08 19:59:49] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| File extensions are likely to be important. I've tested all of the new extensions and they worked for me. Let me know if you have any issues.
[2023-11-08 19:59:49] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| File extensions are likely to be important. I've tested all of the new extensions and they worked for me. Let me know if you have any issues.
[2023-11-08 20:00:30] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how come sty+ct+ap was adopted as official?
[2023-11-08 20:00:30] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how come sty+ct+ap was adopted as official?
[2023-11-08 20:00:49] <Lucifer_arma> um, it wasn't?
[2023-11-08 20:00:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| um, it wasn't?
[2023-11-08 20:01:09] <Lucifer_arma> there's been a lot of stuff going back and forth
[2023-11-08 20:01:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there's been a lot of stuff going back and forth
[2023-11-08 20:01:12] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh why is it on the official sources and maintained?
[2023-11-08 20:01:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh why is it on the official sources and maintained?
[2023-11-08 20:01:35] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| is that for the resource repo @codefossa ?
[2023-11-08 20:01:36] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| is that for the resource repo @codefossa ?
[2023-11-08 20:01:45] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| It's for the wiki.
[2023-11-08 20:01:45] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| It's for the wiki.
[2023-11-08 20:01:59] <Lucifer_arma> I think we started hosting it because the codebase for it was getting fractured and hard to find
[2023-11-08 20:02:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think we started hosting it because the codebase for it was getting fractured and hard to find
[2023-11-08 20:02:15] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| The resource already supports cfg files and whatnot, but not much else for custom stuff.
[2023-11-08 20:02:15] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| The resource already supports cfg files and whatnot, but not much else for custom stuff.
[2023-11-08 20:02:16] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| o nice
[2023-11-08 20:02:16] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| o nice
[2023-11-08 20:02:39] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah gotcha
[2023-11-08 20:02:39] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah gotcha
[2023-11-08 20:02:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| roger, I'll try a couple things tomorrow. I mainly want to update scripts and whatnot, there's no need to build half the stuff we build
[2023-11-08 20:02:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| roger, I'll try a couple things tomorrow. I mainly want to update scripts and whatnot, there's no need to build half the stuff we build
[2023-11-08 20:03:18] <Lucifer_arma> there's no hard feelings here.  :)  The deal with ctf was always that it was a hack and we want a solid ctf implementation that's not easy to do in the 0.4 codebase
[2023-11-08 20:03:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there's no hard feelings here.  :)  The deal with ctf was always that it was a hack and we want a solid ctf implementation that's not easy to do in the 0.4 codebase
[2023-11-08 20:03:32] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| mediawiki files are typically images, videos, audios and pdfs
[2023-11-08 20:03:33] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| mediawiki files are typically images, videos, audios and pdfs
[2023-11-08 20:03:37] <Lucifer_arma> it's possible, it's just that with the sty+ct+ap branch out there, there's no motivation
[2023-11-08 20:03:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's possible, it's just that with the sty+ct+ap branch out there, there's no motivation
[2023-11-08 20:04:19] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| welp
[2023-11-08 20:04:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| welp
[2023-11-08 20:04:31] <Lucifer_arma> it looks like a singleton might be the best way to get lua into arma
[2023-11-08 20:04:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it looks like a singleton might be the best way to get lua into arma
[2023-11-08 20:04:43] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| so basically sty+ct+ap nullified the need of a new development?
[2023-11-08 20:04:43] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| so basically sty+ct+ap nullified the need of a new development?
[2023-11-08 20:05:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| also is there a reason why the hack is used for running servers over the regular version?
[2023-11-08 20:05:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| also is there a reason why the hack is used for running servers over the regular version?
[2023-11-08 20:05:10] <Lucifer_arma> no.  And there's been a lot of stuff that originally started there that's been incorporated into 0.4
[2023-11-08 20:05:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no.  And there's been a lot of stuff that originally started there that's been incorporated into 0.4
[2023-11-08 20:05:49] <Lucifer_arma> I believe the main reason to use sty+ct+ap is either ctf, or the ap part.  I think most of the ct part is in 0.4 now.
[2023-11-08 20:05:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I believe the main reason to use sty+ct+ap is either ctf, or the ap part.  I think most of the ct part is in 0.4 now.
[2023-11-08 20:06:04] <Lucifer_arma> I don't know what all is in sty+ct+ap, but I was looking at the wiki page about it the other day
[2023-11-08 20:06:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't know what all is in sty+ct+ap, but I was looking at the wiki page about it the other day
[2023-11-08 20:06:38] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Basically when you do hacky implementations of features, you can do more faster with less time. There were a couple people that put some effort into adding some cool features to the +ap branch, and there's just not much of a preformance hit or anything as it's pretty light. It was mostly geared towards racing.
[2023-11-08 20:06:38] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Basically when you do hacky implementations of features, you can do more faster with less time. There were a couple people that put some effort into adding some cool features to the +ap branch, and there's just not much of a preformance hit or anything as it's pretty light. It was mostly geared towards racing.
[2023-11-08 20:06:55] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| every couple months nelg just uses some command i've never seen before 😄
[2023-11-08 20:06:55] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| every couple months nelg just uses some command i've never seen before 😄
[2023-11-08 20:07:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| tldr of the features that the hacks implement?
[2023-11-08 20:07:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| tldr of the features that the hacks implement?
[2023-11-08 20:07:08] <-- monr0e has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
[2023-11-08 20:07:49] <Lucifer_arma> a hack by its nature will wind up coding you into a corner where you're stuck with something that's really difficult to improve, and bugs start multiplying
[2023-11-08 20:07:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| a hack by its nature will wind up coding you into a corner where you're stuck with something that's really difficult to improve, and bugs start multiplying
[2023-11-08 20:08:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| colored zones, more scriptable zones i believe, not sure of what all is specific to +ap but nelg would know more since he works on it
[2023-11-08 20:08:23] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| colored zones, more scriptable zones i believe, not sure of what all is specific to +ap but nelg would know more since he works on it
[2023-11-08 20:08:29] <Lucifer_arma> if we're going to take something, we also have to support and extend it, and the hacky nature of the ctf mod makes it something we're not willing to support, and unable to extend
[2023-11-08 20:08:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if we're going to take something, we also have to support and extend it, and the hacky nature of the ctf mod makes it something we're not willing to support, and unable to extend
[2023-11-08 20:08:33] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| i mostly used sty+ct and only came around to +ap later on
[2023-11-08 20:08:33] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| i mostly used sty+ct and only came around to +ap later on
[2023-11-08 20:09:02] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean what exactly the hacks stand for?
[2023-11-08 20:09:02] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean what exactly the hacks stand for?
[2023-11-08 20:09:07] <Lucifer_arma> I don't know of anything from +ap that we couldn't take.  I only know that durf had problems with me wanting any of it because of personal issues between us
[2023-11-08 20:09:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't know of anything from +ap that we couldn't take.  I only know that durf had problems with me wanting any of it because of personal issues between us
[2023-11-08 20:09:52] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| @Juesto you mean their names?
[2023-11-08 20:09:53] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| durf wasn't the one that made it? wasn't it .. the guy that started with a t i think lol
[2023-11-08 20:09:53] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| @Juesto you mean their names?
[2023-11-08 20:09:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| durf wasn't the one that made it? wasn't it .. the guy that started with a t i think lol
[2023-11-08 20:09:59] <Lucifer_arma> a lot of the ct stuff has been pulled in because kyle was making it possible, but some of it is CTWF specific
[2023-11-08 20:09:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| a lot of the ct stuff has been pulled in because kyle was making it possible, but some of it is CTWF specific
[2023-11-08 20:09:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah
[2023-11-08 20:10:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah
[2023-11-08 20:10:19] <Lucifer_arma> I thought durf started the ap part.  sty was pig, ct was kyle
[2023-11-08 20:10:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I thought durf started the ap part.  sty was pig, ct was kyle
[2023-11-08 20:10:26] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| mostly names/teams of the people hacking it
[2023-11-08 20:10:26] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| mostly names/teams of the people hacking it
[2023-11-08 20:10:29] <Lucifer_arma> pig hasn't been around since like '08 or so
[2023-11-08 20:10:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| pig hasn't been around since like '08 or so
[2023-11-08 20:10:37] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| I thought ap was started by the guy that hosted racing.
[2023-11-08 20:10:37] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| I thought ap was started by the guy that hosted racing.
[2023-11-08 20:10:51] <Lucifer_arma> that was durf, wasn't it?
[2023-11-08 20:10:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that was durf, wasn't it?
[2023-11-08 20:11:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| any suggestions about improving in this game with high ping?
[2023-11-08 20:11:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| any suggestions about improving in this game with high ping?
[2023-11-08 20:11:35] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, it was wrtlprnft originally, then ct had some racing, but wasn't it durf that made racing common?
[2023-11-08 20:11:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I mean, it was wrtlprnft originally, then ct had some racing, but wasn't it durf that made racing common?
[2023-11-08 20:11:49] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| There was someone else.
[2023-11-08 20:11:49] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| There was someone else.
[2023-11-08 20:11:51] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, become psychic :)
[2023-11-08 20:11:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, become psychic :)
[2023-11-08 20:11:56] <Lucifer_arma> titanoboa?
[2023-11-08 20:11:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| titanoboa?
[2023-11-08 20:12:03] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| animuson
[2023-11-08 20:12:03] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| animuson
[2023-11-08 20:12:12] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol, i actually mean it, i use double bind
[2023-11-08 20:12:13] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol, i actually mean it, i use double bind
[2023-11-08 20:12:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| to begin with
[2023-11-08 20:12:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| to begin with
[2023-11-08 20:12:40] <Lucifer_arma> single bind improves your own lag situation.  Double binding increases lag, and even more binding does even more
[2023-11-08 20:12:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| single bind improves your own lag situation.  Double binding increases lag, and even more binding does even more
[2023-11-08 20:12:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh really?
[2023-11-08 20:13:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh really?
[2023-11-08 20:13:05] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if you mash em all at once, kind of
[2023-11-08 20:13:05] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if you mash em all at once, kind of
[2023-11-08 20:13:15] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| since you queue the next turn already and can't cancel it
[2023-11-08 20:13:16] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| since you queue the next turn already and can't cancel it
[2023-11-08 20:13:16] <Lucifer_arma> you have to learn how to read the other players so you can anticipate what they're going to do.
[2023-11-08 20:13:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you have to learn how to read the other players so you can anticipate what they're going to do.
[2023-11-08 20:13:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why people are all about multiple binds
[2023-11-08 20:13:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why people are all about multiple binds
[2023-11-08 20:13:37] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| LOVER$BOY is who i was thinking - an upside down T? lol .. i think i was wrong on the T
[2023-11-08 20:13:37] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| LOVER$BOY is who i was thinking - an upside down T? lol .. i think i was wrong on the T
[2023-11-08 20:13:48] <Lucifer_arma> honestly, I don't have anything good to say about anything above double binds, and I'm mostly a single bind player
[2023-11-08 20:13:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| honestly, I don't have anything good to say about anything above double binds, and I'm mostly a single bind player
[2023-11-08 20:13:49] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| oh yeah
[2023-11-08 20:13:49] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| oh yeah
[2023-11-08 20:13:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay
[2023-11-08 20:13:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay
[2023-11-08 20:14:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean i have high ping
[2023-11-08 20:14:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean i have high ping
[2023-11-08 20:14:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| 160 to us servers
[2023-11-08 20:14:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| 160 to us servers
[2023-11-08 20:14:20] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| 200-250 to us west and europe
[2023-11-08 20:14:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| 200-250 to us west and europe
[2023-11-08 20:14:22] <Lucifer_arma> n54 was a great player from norway who always had high pings
[2023-11-08 20:14:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| n54 was a great player from norway who always had high pings
[2023-11-08 20:14:31] <Lucifer_arma> he played in the 200-300 range
[2023-11-08 20:14:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| he played in the 200-300 range
[2023-11-08 20:15:36] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if its about close combat, if your opponent has less ping they see you a bit earlier, but you still have some blind time to do unexpected stuff to them
[2023-11-08 20:15:37] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if its about close combat, if your opponent has less ping they see you a bit earlier, but you still have some blind time to do unexpected stuff to them
[2023-11-08 20:15:40] <Lucifer_arma> the bottom line is the more commands you send to the server or that the server sends to you, the more opportunities there are for them to go missing on the network
[2023-11-08 20:15:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the bottom line is the more commands you send to the server or that the server sends to you, the more opportunities there are for them to go missing on the network
[2023-11-08 20:16:20] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| unfortunately i always am on the losing side
[2023-11-08 20:16:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| unfortunately i always am on the losing side
[2023-11-08 20:16:23] <Lucifer_arma> yes, you should learn to exploit your high ping
[2023-11-08 20:16:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yes, you should learn to exploit your high ping
[2023-11-08 20:16:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how so?
[2023-11-08 20:16:29] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how so?
[2023-11-08 20:16:43] <Lucifer_arma> like ninjapotato said, you have some time to do things that the other player can't see
[2023-11-08 20:16:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| like ninjapotato said, you have some time to do things that the other player can't see
[2023-11-08 20:16:44] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| if the ping is worse, i get the glitch with the walls
[2023-11-08 20:16:44] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| if the ping is worse, i get the glitch with the walls
[2023-11-08 20:17:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| they always have the upper hand because they can wall me and make me burn the rubber
[2023-11-08 20:17:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| they always have the upper hand because they can wall me and make me burn the rubber
[2023-11-08 20:17:20] <Lucifer_arma> it's worth thinking in terms of which part of your wall you're tring to get them to hit
[2023-11-08 20:17:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's worth thinking in terms of which part of your wall you're tring to get them to hit
[2023-11-08 20:17:33] <Lucifer_arma> the lower your ping, the closer the wall to your cycle you can use as the target
[2023-11-08 20:17:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the lower your ping, the closer the wall to your cycle you can use as the target
[2023-11-08 20:17:42] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if its about engaging and who's ahead of who, the lag-o-meter or prediction should show that quite well, and going faster lets you get the upper hand there
[2023-11-08 20:17:42] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if its about engaging and who's ahead of who, the lag-o-meter or prediction should show that quite well, and going faster lets you get the upper hand there
[2023-11-08 20:17:45] <Lucifer_arma> the higher your ping, the farther back you're trying to lead them
[2023-11-08 20:17:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the higher your ping, the farther back you're trying to lead them
[2023-11-08 20:18:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont understand why people do the square U turn
[2023-11-08 20:18:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont understand why people do the square U turn
[2023-11-08 20:18:29] <Lucifer_arma> to get back on their own wall and grind for speed
[2023-11-08 20:18:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| to get back on their own wall and grind for speed
[2023-11-08 20:18:34] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| ^
[2023-11-08 20:18:34] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| ^
[2023-11-08 20:18:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-08 20:18:47] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-08 20:19:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| in sumo the plays are tighter
[2023-11-08 20:19:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| in sumo the plays are tighter
[2023-11-08 20:19:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i've seen
[2023-11-08 20:19:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i've seen
[2023-11-08 20:19:18] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, you can't leave your zone or you lose
[2023-11-08 20:19:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, you can't leave your zone or you lose
[2023-11-08 20:19:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i used to play on the high speed high rubber circular server
[2023-11-08 20:19:24] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i used to play on the high speed high rubber circular server
[2023-11-08 20:19:37] <Lucifer_arma> basic sumo strategy is get your entire wall in the zone, then follow your tail until everyone else dies
[2023-11-08 20:19:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| basic sumo strategy is get your entire wall in the zone, then follow your tail until everyone else dies
[2023-11-08 20:19:48] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont have the reactions to do all those complex turns
[2023-11-08 20:19:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont have the reactions to do all those complex turns
[2023-11-08 20:19:52] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| because you do slightly bonk your own wall while doing the square u-turn, it uses a bit of rubber though - if you do that move in reverse it saves that rubber as well 😄
[2023-11-08 20:19:52] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| because you do slightly bonk your own wall while doing the square u-turn, it uses a bit of rubber though - if you do that move in reverse it saves that rubber as well 😄
[2023-11-08 20:19:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| reaction times
[2023-11-08 20:19:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| reaction times
[2023-11-08 20:20:08] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| my reaction times suck lol
[2023-11-08 20:20:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| my reaction times suck lol
[2023-11-08 20:20:23] <Lucifer_arma> then don't.  multiple-binding doesn't give an inherent advantage to anybody
[2023-11-08 20:20:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| then don't.  multiple-binding doesn't give an inherent advantage to anybody
[2023-11-08 20:20:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why i got gaslit that it does
[2023-11-08 20:20:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why i got gaslit that it does
[2023-11-08 20:20:39] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| or something
[2023-11-08 20:20:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| or something
[2023-11-08 20:20:42] <Lucifer_arma> some of the best players that have every been around here have been single binders
[2023-11-08 20:20:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| some of the best players that have every been around here have been single binders
[2023-11-08 20:20:45] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| it saves my wrists on servers with fast turns 😄
[2023-11-08 20:20:46] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| it saves my wrists on servers with fast turns 😄
[2023-11-08 20:20:57] <Lucifer_arma> and back when I was in my prime, I was hard to beat, and I'm mostly a single binder
[2023-11-08 20:20:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and back when I was in my prime, I was hard to beat, and I'm mostly a single binder
[2023-11-08 20:21:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| damn
[2023-11-08 20:21:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| damn
[2023-11-08 20:21:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im used to and liked the racing and those variations of the game
[2023-11-08 20:21:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im used to and liked the racing and those variations of the game
[2023-11-08 20:21:44] <Lucifer_arma> my biggest problem playing now is my instincts tell me to do stuff that I don't currently have the skill for anymore :)
[2023-11-08 20:21:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| my biggest problem playing now is my instincts tell me to do stuff that I don't currently have the skill for anymore :)
[2023-11-08 20:21:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh well
[2023-11-08 20:21:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh well
[2023-11-08 20:22:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| so then?
[2023-11-08 20:22:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| so then?
[2023-11-08 20:23:06] <Lucifer_arma> but for reference, it used to be that if a multi-binder beat me, they got some serious bragging rights for awhile.  I wasn't undefeatable by any stretch, but I got booted from high rubber servers because I couldn't die on them :)
[2023-11-08 20:23:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but for reference, it used to be that if a multi-binder beat me, they got some serious bragging rights for awhile.  I wasn't undefeatable by any stretch, but I got booted from high rubber servers because I couldn't die on them :)
[2023-11-08 20:23:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| also classic yellow submarine has some atrocious lag at times
[2023-11-08 20:23:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| also classic yellow submarine has some atrocious lag at times
[2023-11-08 20:23:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
[2023-11-08 20:23:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
[2023-11-08 20:23:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| too good for high rubber heh?
[2023-11-08 20:23:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| too good for high rubber heh?
[2023-11-08 20:24:06] <Lucifer_arma> yeah.  People would box me in and then accuse me of camping for not dying
[2023-11-08 20:24:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah.  People would box me in and then accuse me of camping for not dying
[2023-11-08 20:24:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-08 20:24:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-08 20:24:47] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| they need to make a better box or shrink the box then
[2023-11-08 20:24:48] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| they need to make a better box or shrink the box then
[2023-11-08 20:24:59] <Lucifer_arma> as much as I hate the idea of "open play", it's actually good practice for high ping players
[2023-11-08 20:24:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as much as I hate the idea of "open play", it's actually good practice for high ping players
[2023-11-08 20:25:02] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| though on some servers that's a pretty hard thing to be fair
[2023-11-08 20:25:02] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| though on some servers that's a pretty hard thing to be fair
[2023-11-08 20:25:09] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its easier to shrink the box than enlarge it i think
[2023-11-08 20:25:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its easier to shrink the box than enlarge it i think
[2023-11-08 20:25:14] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah with high speeds maybe its harder
[2023-11-08 20:25:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah with high speeds maybe its harder
[2023-11-08 20:25:28] <Lucifer_arma> well, when you're trapped, the first thing you do is lay your own wall out there so they can't shrink it
[2023-11-08 20:25:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, when you're trapped, the first thing you do is lay your own wall out there so they can't shrink it
[2023-11-08 20:25:50] <Lucifer_arma> and you push on every bump so they wind up enlarging the box
[2023-11-08 20:25:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and you push on every bump so they wind up enlarging the box
[2023-11-08 20:26:29] <Lucifer_arma> and I grew up in this game on servers with no brakes, so I still don't even think about hitting the brake.  I have it bound, but I don't remember which key it is :)
[2023-11-08 20:26:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and I grew up in this game on servers with no brakes, so I still don't even think about hitting the brake.  I have it bound, but I don't remember which key it is :)
[2023-11-08 20:27:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| anyone up for some tron teaching/mentoring?
[2023-11-08 20:27:06] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| anyone up for some tron teaching/mentoring?
[2023-11-08 20:27:26] <Lucifer_arma> I've still got my head deep in lua.
[2023-11-08 20:27:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've still got my head deep in lua.
[2023-11-08 20:27:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| also, who came up with the bot names
[2023-11-08 20:27:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| also, who came up with the bot names
[2023-11-08 20:27:39] <Lucifer_arma> I'd suggest you check out my server, though.  Breakfast in Hell.  it should still be running
[2023-11-08 20:27:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'd suggest you check out my server, though.  Breakfast in Hell.  it should still be running
[2023-11-08 20:27:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why name the bots after software
[2023-11-08 20:27:43] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why name the bots after software
[2023-11-08 20:27:59] <Lucifer_arma> that's from the movie Tron, where the light cycles were driven by programs
[2023-11-08 20:28:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that's from the movie Tron, where the light cycles were driven by programs
[2023-11-08 20:28:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its running 0.4
[2023-11-08 20:28:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its running 0.4
[2023-11-08 20:28:19] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| should i play with 0.4?
[2023-11-08 20:28:19] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| should i play with 0.4?
[2023-11-08 20:28:28] <Lucifer_arma> of course it's running 0.4, but it's not using any settings that require 0.4
[2023-11-08 20:28:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| of course it's running 0.4, but it's not using any settings that require 0.4
[2023-11-08 20:28:50] <Lucifer_arma> last I heard, 0.4 was the most recent code, and I always run the most recent code on my server.
[2023-11-08 20:28:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| last I heard, 0.4 was the most recent code, and I always run the most recent code on my server.
[2023-11-08 20:28:51] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| try joining it, if it boots you out then you'd need it, otherwise not
[2023-11-08 20:28:51] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| try joining it, if it boots you out then you'd need it, otherwise not
[2023-11-08 20:29:37] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i'm honestly impressed by armagetron's ludicrous backwards compatibility
[2023-11-08 20:29:37] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i'm honestly impressed by armagetron's ludicrous backwards compatibility
[2023-11-08 20:29:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| could join jsut fine
[2023-11-08 20:29:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| could join jsut fine
[2023-11-08 20:30:04] <Lucifer_arma> haha.  Me too.  z-manuel has always been about backward compatibility.
[2023-11-08 20:30:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| haha.  Me too.  z-manuel has always been about backward compatibility.
[2023-11-08 20:30:17] <Lucifer_arma> it was a huge problem in the 0.2.8 series when distributions were still shipping 0.2.6
[2023-11-08 20:30:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it was a huge problem in the 0.2.8 series when distributions were still shipping 0.2.6
[2023-11-08 20:31:04] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| hah that makes sense then
[2023-11-08 20:31:04] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| hah that makes sense then
[2023-11-08 20:31:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh
[2023-11-08 20:31:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh
[2023-11-08 20:31:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| interesting settings
[2023-11-08 20:31:21] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| interesting settings
[2023-11-08 20:31:35] <Lucifer_arma> if we ever get back to some sort of rapid release cycle, we'll need all that backward compatibility for the same reasons we've always needed it
[2023-11-08 20:31:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if we ever get back to some sort of rapid release cycle, we'll need all that backward compatibility for the same reasons we've always needed it
[2023-11-08 20:31:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| slow unless on a wall
[2023-11-08 20:31:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| slow unless on a wall
[2023-11-08 20:31:49] <Lucifer_arma> then fast as fuck
[2023-11-08 20:31:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| then fast as fuck
[2023-11-08 20:32:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh
[2023-11-08 20:32:02] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh
[2023-11-08 20:32:12] <Lucifer_arma> I was having flashbacks to the old nano servers when I was playing the other night
[2023-11-08 20:32:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was having flashbacks to the old nano servers when I was playing the other night
[2023-11-08 20:33:09] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| also fittingly enough there is no brake 😄
[2023-11-08 20:33:10] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| also fittingly enough there is no brake 😄
[2023-11-08 20:33:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
[2023-11-08 20:33:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
[2023-11-08 20:33:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| there is brake
[2023-11-08 20:33:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| there is brake
[2023-11-08 20:33:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i thought
[2023-11-08 20:33:24] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i thought
[2023-11-08 20:35:24] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| reminds me of classic capture the flag physics
[2023-11-08 20:35:24] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| reminds me of classic capture the flag physics
[2023-11-08 20:36:13] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| though maybe it was the other way around? 😄
[2023-11-08 20:36:13] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| though maybe it was the other way around? 😄
[2023-11-08 20:36:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| hm?
[2023-11-08 20:36:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| hm?
[2023-11-08 20:37:06] <Lucifer_arma> ctf and fortress all took physics from the breakfast servers originally
[2023-11-08 20:37:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ctf and fortress all took physics from the breakfast servers originally
[2023-11-08 20:37:28] <Lucifer_arma> because they came from breakfast players.  Where the original was Breakfast of Champions.  Breakfast in Hell was a clone of that one, originally
[2023-11-08 20:37:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| because they came from breakfast players.  Where the original was Breakfast of Champions.  Breakfast in Hell was a clone of that one, originally
[2023-11-08 20:37:48] <Lucifer_arma> but in the 0.2.7.1 series I modified it to go with the new rubber, and made the grid smaller
[2023-11-08 20:37:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but in the 0.2.7.1 series I modified it to go with the new rubber, and made the grid smaller
[2023-11-08 20:38:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im noticing a glitch with the rubber hud
[2023-11-08 20:38:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im noticing a glitch with the rubber hud
[2023-11-08 20:38:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| it flcikers
[2023-11-08 20:38:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| it flcikers
[2023-11-08 20:38:55] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| yeah it looks like it gives you back some after you turn on a wall, and then can't decide for a second or two
[2023-11-08 20:38:55] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| yeah it looks like it gives you back some after you turn on a wall, and then can't decide for a second or two
[2023-11-08 20:39:06] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| maybe it's just the ping though idk
[2023-11-08 20:39:06] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| maybe it's just the ping though idk
[2023-11-08 20:40:44] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| also the deathzone doesn't kill you when it spawns on top of you, only leaving and re-entering does apparently
[2023-11-08 20:40:44] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| also the deathzone doesn't kill you when it spawns on top of you, only leaving and re-entering does apparently
[2023-11-08 20:41:05] <Lucifer_arma> I saw that the other night.  That's obviously a bug.
[2023-11-08 20:41:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I saw that the other night.  That's obviously a bug.
[2023-11-08 20:41:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| kidna boring alone
[2023-11-08 20:41:53] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| kidna boring alone
[2023-11-08 20:45:23] <Lucifer_arma> I tried to make the ais fun
[2023-11-08 20:45:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I tried to make the ais fun
[2023-11-08 20:45:47] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| they did look like they actually do something, yeah
[2023-11-08 20:45:47] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| they did look like they actually do something, yeah
[2023-11-08 20:45:52] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| only saw them for a round though
[2023-11-08 20:45:53] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| only saw them for a round though
[2023-11-08 20:47:00] <Lucifer_arma> they have different personalities
[2023-11-08 20:47:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| they have different personalities
[2023-11-08 20:47:13] <Lucifer_arma> after I won a match against them all last night, I went to other servers to find human opponents
[2023-11-08 20:47:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| after I won a match against them all last night, I went to other servers to find human opponents
[2023-11-08 20:48:35] <Lucifer_arma> I think the team balancing code is the ideal starting point for scripting.  There's not much to it, I'm pretty sure it's isolated in one spot, and it has quick practical uses particularly in pickup games
[2023-11-08 20:48:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think the team balancing code is the ideal starting point for scripting.  There's not much to it, I'm pretty sure it's isolated in one spot, and it has quick practical uses particularly in pickup games
[2023-11-08 20:50:40] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| what happened to the server
[2023-11-08 20:50:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| what happened to the server
[2023-11-08 20:50:48] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i think someone crashed it
[2023-11-08 20:50:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i think someone crashed it
[2023-11-08 20:50:49] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| connection dropped :<
[2023-11-08 20:50:50] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| connection dropped :<
[2023-11-08 20:50:55] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| idk
[2023-11-08 20:50:55] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| idk
[2023-11-08 20:50:59] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| it said heavy load
[2023-11-08 20:51:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| it said heavy load
[2023-11-08 20:51:16] <Lucifer_arma> ?  my server?
[2023-11-08 20:51:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ?  my server?
[2023-11-08 20:51:22] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| yes
[2023-11-08 20:51:23] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| yes
[2023-11-08 20:52:28] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| as for the scripting thing, do you mean something closer to the program or more integrated than the ladderlog based stuff?
[2023-11-08 20:52:28] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| as for the scripting thing, do you mean something closer to the program or more integrated than the ladderlog based stuff?
[2023-11-08 20:52:43] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yes your breakfast server lucifer
[2023-11-08 20:52:43] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yes your breakfast server lucifer
[2023-11-08 20:52:55] <Lucifer_arma> it looks like the whole server's down
[2023-11-08 20:52:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it looks like the whole server's down
[2023-11-08 20:53:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im bothered by why you cant see the console when you're not in a game
[2023-11-08 20:53:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im bothered by why you cant see the console when you're not in a game
[2023-11-08 20:53:19] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| console history
[2023-11-08 20:53:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| console history
[2023-11-08 20:53:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| did it crash or get ddosed?
[2023-11-08 20:53:39] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| did it crash or get ddosed?
[2023-11-08 20:54:35] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if it helps for diagnosing: it did the heavy load turtle mode message and then i got the "timed out" fullscreen message a couple seconds later
[2023-11-08 20:54:35] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| if it helps for diagnosing: it did the heavy load turtle mode message and then i got the "timed out" fullscreen message a couple seconds later
[2023-11-08 20:55:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| a player 4 joined then it disconnected
[2023-11-08 20:55:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| a player 4 joined then it disconnected
[2023-11-08 20:57:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| with everyone else
[2023-11-08 20:57:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| with everyone else
[2023-11-08 20:57:14] <Lucifer_arma> I just triggered a reboot, but it doesn't seem to be up
[2023-11-08 20:57:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I just triggered a reboot, but it doesn't seem to be up
[2023-11-08 20:57:19] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| for team balancing stuff i know the +ap branch has a command to put a player on a team - "set_player_team potato team_blue" - seems to behave as if i clicked "join team blue" in the team menu, maybe there's some code to yoink
[2023-11-08 20:57:21] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| for team balancing stuff i know the +ap branch has a command to put a player on a team - "set_player_team potato team_blue" - seems to behave as if i clicked "join team blue" in the team menu, maybe there's some code to yoink
[2023-11-08 20:57:33] <Lucifer_arma> it runs my website, too, so if my website isn't up, the server isn't up
[2023-11-08 20:57:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it runs my website, too, so if my website isn't up, the server isn't up
[2023-11-08 20:58:24] <Lucifer_arma> I mean running a script at the point where the team balancing happens.  The default script to run would do what it already does, but you could write your own script and maybe integrate it with the pickup bot
[2023-11-08 20:58:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I mean running a script at the point where the team balancing happens.  The default script to run would do what it already does, but you could write your own script and maybe integrate it with the pickup bot
[2023-11-08 20:59:07] <Lucifer_arma> you know, when it looks at teams and automatically moves people to keep the number of people on each team as even as possible
[2023-11-08 20:59:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you know, when it looks at teams and automatically moves people to keep the number of people on each team as even as possible
[2023-11-08 20:59:09] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| oh you mean something like a mini plugin / hook for it? that sounds neat
[2023-11-08 20:59:10] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| oh you mean something like a mini plugin / hook for it? that sounds neat
[2023-11-08 20:59:23] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that's what I mean by scripting :)
[2023-11-08 20:59:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, that's what I mean by scripting :)
[2023-11-08 20:59:59] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-08 20:59:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh
[2023-11-08 21:00:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| but it also could be implemented at core
[2023-11-08 21:00:05] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| but it also could be implemented at core
[2023-11-08 21:00:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| light's server is also down
[2023-11-08 21:00:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| light's server is also down
[2023-11-08 21:03:15] <Lucifer_arma> what is this high load crap?
[2023-11-08 21:03:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| what is this high load crap?
[2023-11-08 21:03:24] <Lucifer_arma> zmanuel: 
[2023-11-08 21:03:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| zmanuel:
[2023-11-08 21:04:47] <Lucifer_arma> ok, it's back up
[2023-11-08 21:04:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, it's back up
[2023-11-08 21:05:02] <Lucifer_arma> @Juesto: what do you mean "at core"?
[2023-11-08 21:05:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Juesto: what do you mean "at core"?
[2023-11-08 21:05:26] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i think it was something to prevent servers not crashing from ping spams and half-dropped/disconnected clients that'd still send to the server by limiting messages or something
[2023-11-08 21:05:27] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i think it was something to prevent servers not crashing from ping spams and half-dropped/disconnected clients that'd still send to the server by limiting messages or something
[2023-11-08 21:05:41] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| not sure about the fine details
[2023-11-08 21:05:41] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| not sure about the fine details
[2023-11-08 21:06:04] <Lucifer_arma> but why did it take down the whole server?  I couldn't even ssh into it
[2023-11-08 21:06:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but why did it take down the whole server?  I couldn't even ssh into it
[2023-11-08 21:06:16] <Lucifer_arma> I had to go to the hosting services control panel and reboot it
[2023-11-08 21:06:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I had to go to the hosting services control panel and reboot it
[2023-11-08 21:06:49] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| that i don't know, i've not had tron crash my system yet
[2023-11-08 21:06:49] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| that i don't know, i've not had tron crash my system yet
[2023-11-08 21:08:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| no idea
[2023-11-08 21:08:06] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| no idea
[2023-11-08 21:08:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| at core i meant at the program itself
[2023-11-08 21:08:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| at core i meant at the program itself
[2023-11-08 21:08:21] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| rather than scripting
[2023-11-08 21:08:21] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| rather than scripting
[2023-11-08 21:08:43] <Lucifer_arma> um, the idea is to integrate scripting into the program so that it can be extended by other people for whatever they need
[2023-11-08 21:08:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| um, the idea is to integrate scripting into the program so that it can be extended by other people for whatever they need
[2023-11-08 21:08:51] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| fair enough
[2023-11-08 21:08:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| fair enough
[2023-11-08 21:09:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| but its a feature thats going to be used by most competitive tho
[2023-11-08 21:09:05] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| but its a feature thats going to be used by most competitive tho
[2023-11-08 21:09:05] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| :D
[2023-11-08 21:09:05] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| :D
[2023-11-08 21:09:23] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| with the scripting part i could think of some neat things like "balance teams by scores for a new match" for example
[2023-11-08 21:09:24] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| with the scripting part i could think of some neat things like "balance teams by scores for a new match" for example
[2023-11-08 21:09:44] <Lucifer_arma> not sure I'd be worried about competition.  Even with as little attention as we've given it over the last 15 years, no fork has managed to displace us
[2023-11-08 21:09:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| not sure I'd be worried about competition.  Even with as little attention as we've given it over the last 15 years, no fork has managed to displace us
[2023-11-08 21:09:46] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| I only went down for a moment while I rebooted the modem, but not quite sure what happened because it seemed as though it was still connected fine.
[2023-11-08 21:09:48] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| I only went down for a moment while I rebooted the modem, but not quite sure what happened because it seemed as though it was still connected fine.
[2023-11-08 21:10:32] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| no brakes on light server :o
[2023-11-08 21:10:34] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| no brakes on light server :o
[2023-11-08 21:10:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| and super low rubber
[2023-11-08 21:10:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| and super low rubber
[2023-11-08 21:10:54] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Yeah, it tries to do a more traditional tron where if you touch, you die.
[2023-11-08 21:10:54] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Yeah, it tries to do a more traditional tron where if you touch, you die.
[2023-11-08 21:10:56] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, so you could try to make teams balanced by skills so you don't get lopsided games
[2023-11-08 21:10:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, so you could try to make teams balanced by skills so you don't get lopsided games
[2023-11-08 21:11:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can sort of do a touch and not die
[2023-11-08 21:11:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can sort of do a touch and not die
[2023-11-08 21:11:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| on here
[2023-11-08 21:11:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| on here
[2023-11-08 21:11:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| but it has to be pretty quick
[2023-11-08 21:11:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| but it has to be pretty quick
[2023-11-08 21:11:37] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| It being too low also causes issues, so it's just best I could do.
[2023-11-08 21:11:37] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| It being too low also causes issues, so it's just best I could do.
[2023-11-08 21:11:50] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| If you have higher ping, it'll also be easier to touch.
[2023-11-08 21:11:51] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| If you have higher ping, it'll also be easier to touch.
[2023-11-08 21:12:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| fair
[2023-11-08 21:12:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| fair
[2023-11-08 21:12:40] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| what kind of issues?
[2023-11-08 21:12:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| what kind of issues?
[2023-11-08 21:12:42] <Lucifer_arma> I wanted a version where rubber drops the faster you go
[2023-11-08 21:12:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I wanted a version where rubber drops the faster you go
[2023-11-08 21:12:44] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| and while my simple example could technically be done with the ladderlog based scripting, it needs some glue and duct tape and won't work without a dedicated server
[2023-11-08 21:12:45] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| and while my simple example could technically be done with the ladderlog based scripting, it needs some glue and duct tape and won't work without a dedicated server
[2023-11-08 21:12:55] <Lucifer_arma> so if you're going too fast when you hit a wall, you die and there's nothing you can do about it
[2023-11-08 21:12:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so if you're going too fast when you hit a wall, you die and there's nothing you can do about it
[2023-11-08 21:13:32] <Lucifer_arma> well, all the external scripting is just a hack to get around the fact that we didn't have scripting in the game itself
[2023-11-08 21:13:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, all the external scripting is just a hack to get around the fact that we didn't have scripting in the game itself
[2023-11-08 21:14:03] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| can get kinda close to it with cycle_rubber_timebased but not in the way of just lowering it a flat amount
[2023-11-08 21:14:04] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| can get kinda close to it with cycle_rubber_timebased but not in the way of just lowering it a flat amount
[2023-11-08 21:14:21] <Lucifer_arma> if I were to pursue scripting right now, I'd look at all the external scripting that's been done and add whatever was needed to render all of it obsolete and it would need to be rewritten using the new internal stuff
[2023-11-08 21:14:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if I were to pursue scripting right now, I'd look at all the external scripting that's been done and add whatever was needed to render all of it obsolete and it would need to be rewritten using the new internal stuff
[2023-11-08 21:15:11] <Lucifer_arma> we always thought that in an ideal fortress game, for example, the two zones would slowly move towards each other, and the best way to make that happen is with scripting
[2023-11-08 21:15:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we always thought that in an ideal fortress game, for example, the two zones would slowly move towards each other, and the best way to make that happen is with scripting
[2023-11-08 21:15:43] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| side note: my favourite setting on v0.4 that isn't on v0.2 is the one that changes hole size based on speed
[2023-11-08 21:15:44] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| side note: my favourite setting on v0.4 that isn't on v0.2 is the one that changes hole size based on speed
[2023-11-08 21:15:44] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| That's a fun idea ..
[2023-11-08 21:15:44] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| That's a fun idea ..
[2023-11-08 21:15:52] <Lucifer_arma> so as a round progresses and people crash, the number of people on the grid drops, so the zones would be moving together to compensate for that
[2023-11-08 21:15:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so as a round progresses and people crash, the number of people on the grid drops, so the zones would be moving together to compensate for that
[2023-11-08 21:16:00] <Lucifer_arma> ultimately, with two players left, it'd be a sumo game
[2023-11-08 21:16:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ultimately, with two players left, it'd be a sumo game
[2023-11-08 21:16:33] <Lucifer_arma> heh, ninjapotato, that was my idea back in the day.  :)  I think I did a hack for it, and zmanuel made it right
[2023-11-08 21:16:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| heh, ninjapotato, that was my idea back in the day.  :)  I think I did a hack for it, and zmanuel made it right
[2023-11-08 21:16:58] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i want to go fast and see big explosions, what can i say 😄
[2023-11-08 21:16:58] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i want to go fast and see big explosions, what can i say 😄
[2023-11-08 21:17:00] <Lucifer_arma> my favorite feature that we still have is the ingame clock.  I added it because my first wife was bitching about how much I was playing
[2023-11-08 21:17:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| my favorite feature that we still have is the ingame clock.  I added it because my first wife was bitching about how much I was playing
[2023-11-08 21:17:26] <Lucifer_arma> it got incorporated into the cockpit, of course, but I added it back when it was still just the HUD
[2023-11-08 21:17:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it got incorporated into the cockpit, of course, but I added it back when it was still just the HUD
[2023-11-08 21:18:25] <Lucifer_arma> I think that was the first thing I did when I got added to the dev team
[2023-11-08 21:18:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think that was the first thing I did when I got added to the dev team
[2023-11-08 21:20:01] <Lucifer_arma> and it really helps right now to see how much of my influence is still all over the place.  Definitely need arma to be part of my sobriety plan
[2023-11-08 21:20:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and it really helps right now to see how much of my influence is still all over the place.  Definitely need arma to be part of my sobriety plan
[2023-11-08 21:22:01] <Lucifer_arma> ok, doesn't look like sol2 is packaged.  Makes sense since it's a header only library
[2023-11-08 21:22:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, doesn't look like sol2 is packaged.  Makes sense since it's a header only library
[2023-11-08 21:22:37] <Lucifer_arma> I guess it's sol3 now
[2023-11-08 21:22:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I guess it's sol3 now
[2023-11-08 21:23:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you mean sdl?
[2023-11-08 21:23:43] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you mean sdl?
[2023-11-08 21:24:01] <Lucifer_arma> no.  sol3 is a library that makes embedding lua easy
[2023-11-08 21:24:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no.  sol3 is a library that makes embedding lua easy
[2023-11-08 21:24:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh i see
[2023-11-08 21:24:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh i see
[2023-11-08 21:24:16] <Lucifer_arma> although I did hear rumors about someone working on sdl3
[2023-11-08 21:24:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| although I did hear rumors about someone working on sdl3
[2023-11-08 21:24:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| also apparently sdl2 is causing issues on arch
[2023-11-08 21:24:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| also apparently sdl2 is causing issues on arch
[2023-11-08 21:25:24] <Lucifer_arma> I think a singleton is the way to go with lua
[2023-11-08 21:25:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think a singleton is the way to go with lua
[2023-11-08 21:27:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you already said that
[2023-11-08 21:27:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you already said that
[2023-11-08 21:28:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| breakfast in hell is back
[2023-11-08 21:28:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| breakfast in hell is back
[2023-11-08 21:28:21] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| also you dont have globalid enabled
[2023-11-08 21:28:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| also you dont have globalid enabled
[2023-11-08 21:28:29] <Lucifer_arma> no, I don't
[2023-11-08 21:28:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, I don't
[2023-11-08 21:28:30] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| global id authentication
[2023-11-08 21:28:30] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| global id authentication
[2023-11-08 21:28:34] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why?
[2023-11-08 21:28:34] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why?
[2023-11-08 21:28:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how do you gain server access from the game without it?
[2023-11-08 21:28:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how do you gain server access from the game without it?
[2023-11-08 21:28:47] <Lucifer_arma> because I just slapped it together
[2023-11-08 21:28:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| because I just slapped it together
[2023-11-08 21:28:58] <Lucifer_arma> I don't need server access from the game?
[2023-11-08 21:28:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't need server access from the game?
[2023-11-08 21:36:05] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| what's the new -js hack im seeing on some servers?
[2023-11-08 21:36:05] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| what's the new -js hack im seeing on some servers?
[2023-11-08 21:37:02] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol the snake server is fun
[2023-11-08 21:37:02] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol the snake server is fun
[2023-11-08 21:37:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| very hard because its a very small area
[2023-11-08 21:37:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| very hard because its a very small area
[2023-11-08 21:45:48] <Lucifer_arma> -js hack?
[2023-11-08 21:45:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| -js hack?
[2023-11-08 21:51:30] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| i mean he could use local users if he needed to
[2023-11-08 21:51:30] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| i mean he could use local users if he needed to
[2023-11-08 21:52:26] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sty+ct+ap-js
[2023-11-08 21:52:26] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sty+ct+ap-js
[2023-11-08 21:52:41] <Lucifer_arma> maybe that's the one with the javascript?
[2023-11-08 21:52:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| maybe that's the one with the javascript?
[2023-11-08 21:53:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh maybe
[2023-11-08 21:53:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh maybe
[2023-11-08 21:53:33] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| tunnel durf server has it
[2023-11-08 21:53:34] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| tunnel durf server has it
[2023-11-08 21:53:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| retrocycles snake
[2023-11-08 21:53:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| retrocycles snake
[2023-11-08 21:53:43] <Lucifer_arma> Either I'm a sucky editor or my rough draft was higher quality than normal
[2023-11-08 21:53:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Either I'm a sucky editor or my rough draft was higher quality than normal
[2023-11-08 21:53:47] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| and the server called deathmatch!
[2023-11-08 21:53:47] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| and the server called deathmatch!
[2023-11-08 21:56:14] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| hey any idea what the funny shapes mean?
[2023-11-08 21:56:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| hey any idea what the funny shapes mean?
[2023-11-08 21:56:20] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the lagometer stuff
[2023-11-08 21:56:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the lagometer stuff
[2023-11-08 21:56:44] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean whatever is on the player thingy
[2023-11-08 21:56:44] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean whatever is on the player thingy
[2023-11-08 22:01:21] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, that sorta means the cycle could be anywhere in that shape
[2023-11-08 22:01:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, that sorta means the cycle could be anywhere in that shape
[2023-11-08 22:01:38] <Lucifer_arma> in practice, it doesn't really mean that, and it's just an indication of how much lag there is
[2023-11-08 22:01:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| in practice, it doesn't really mean that, and it's just an indication of how much lag there is
[2023-11-08 22:01:44] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah
[2023-11-08 22:01:44] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah

Searching from 2023-11-09 00:00:00 to 2023-11-09 23:59:59.999999.
Query completed in 0.48 seconds
[2023-11-09 00:00:35] <Lucifer_arma> ok, got the scoring fixed on my server
[2023-11-09 00:00:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, got the scoring fixed on my server
[2023-11-09 00:01:06] <Lucifer_arma> also, I added ais to multiplayer so there'll always be at least four players.  My server is more fun with more people, but you don't really see that with the current number of people playing
[2023-11-09 00:01:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, I added ais to multiplayer so there'll always be at least four players.  My server is more fun with more people, but you don't really see that with the current number of people playing
[2023-11-09 00:02:11] <Lucifer_arma> mildly amusing that I had to read a page on the wiki that I wrote to understand the settings file layout
[2023-11-09 00:02:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| mildly amusing that I had to read a page on the wiki that I wrote to understand the settings file layout
[2023-11-09 00:03:22] <Lucifer_arma> zmanuel: is krawall still in the source tree in any form?
[2023-11-09 00:03:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| zmanuel: is krawall still in the source tree in any form?
[2023-11-09 01:47:27] <Lucifer_arma> ok, that's it.  I'm declaring this story ready to publish.  Now I have to make the cover, format the pdf, etc.
[2023-11-09 01:47:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, that's it.  I'm declaring this story ready to publish.  Now I have to make the cover, format the pdf, etc.
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[2023-11-09 09:26:20] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| cheers
[2023-11-09 09:26:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| cheers
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[2023-11-09 11:48:34] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Lucifer_arma, you can use blitblee to connect to discord with irc
[2023-11-09 11:48:34] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Lucifer_arma, you can use blitblee to connect to discord with irc
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[2023-11-09 11:53:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'll take a look at getting that working, it would be nice to share the other channels rather than just chat and eventually pickup. It might require setting up an IRC network of our own, which I can do if necessary
[2023-11-09 11:53:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'll take a look at getting that working, it would be nice to share the other channels rather than just chat and eventually pickup. It might require setting up an IRC network of our own, which I can do if necessary
[2023-11-09 11:54:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That would also allow us to bridge all fo the IRC networks
[2023-11-09 11:54:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That would also allow us to bridge all fo the IRC networks
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[2023-11-09 11:55:39] <armagetronbridge> 11irc:delinquent| btw Lucifer_arma could I impose on you to change the channel topic a little? It would be nice to also include links to the armagetron steam page as well as the discord
[2023-11-09 11:55:39] <delinquent> btw Lucifer_arma could I impose on you to change the channel topic a little? It would be nice to also include links to the armagetron steam page as well as the discord
[2023-11-09 11:57:00] <delinquent> hmmm. It turns out we don't actually have #armagetron-pickup registered either here or on Libera. I will remedy that later today
[2023-11-09 11:57:00] <armagetronbridge> 11irc:delinquent| hmmm. It turns out we don't actually have #armagetron-pickup registered either here or on Libera. I will remedy that later today
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[2023-11-09 13:12:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| also, i think  you can control the libera one?
[2023-11-09 13:12:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| also, i think  you can control the libera one?
[2023-11-09 13:13:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| blitblee is a ircd for users not really designed for shared usage and stuff
[2023-11-09 13:13:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| blitblee is a ircd for users not really designed for shared usage and stuff
[2023-11-09 13:13:19] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its for multiple protocols too
[2023-11-09 13:13:19] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its for multiple protocols too
[2023-11-09 13:17:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto no, upon further inspection it's not really designed for that. It would be nice to have an IRC server set up for this though, one with channels specifically corresponding  to the channels in the discord.
[2023-11-09 13:17:05] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto no, upon further inspection it's not really designed for that. It would be nice to have an IRC server set up for this though, one with channels specifically corresponding  to the channels in the discord.
[2023-11-09 13:17:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suggested it for lucifer to use
[2023-11-09 13:17:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suggested it for lucifer to use
[2023-11-09 13:18:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| aye I'm jsut letting my mind wander a little
[2023-11-09 13:18:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| aye I'm jsut letting my mind wander a little
[2023-11-09 14:00:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| kinda pointless imo, very few people to warrant it
[2023-11-09 14:00:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| kinda pointless imo, very few people to warrant it
[2023-11-09 14:00:40] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the ircd that is
[2023-11-09 14:00:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the ircd that is
[2023-11-09 17:55:24] <Lucifer_arma> Why would a package bound for pflugerville go to Austin, then Fredericksburg, which is like 2 hours drive SW from pflugerville?
[2023-11-09 17:55:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Why would a package bound for pflugerville go to Austin, then Fredericksburg, which is like 2 hours drive SW from pflugerville?
[2023-11-09 17:57:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| if there's nothing already going in that direction, it's far cheaper to load a single package on an existing route than to pull up an entirely new route that may only serve a single package
[2023-11-09 17:57:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| if there's nothing already going in that direction, it's far cheaper to load a single package on an existing route than to pull up an entirely new route that may only serve a single package
[2023-11-09 18:14:52] <Lucifer_arma> but that's the wrong direction.  Austin is the hub, and the capital city of Texas, and pflugerville is a sizable suburb
[2023-11-09 18:14:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but that's the wrong direction.  Austin is the hub, and the capital city of Texas, and pflugerville is a sizable suburb
[2023-11-09 18:15:15] <Lucifer_arma> pflugerville is NE of Austin
[2023-11-09 18:15:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| pflugerville is NE of Austin
[2023-11-09 18:39:01] <Lucifer_arma> it should have gone from Austin to my post office, which is right down the road from me, and then out for delivery from there
[2023-11-09 18:39:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it should have gone from Austin to my post office, which is right down the road from me, and then out for delivery from there
[2023-11-09 18:40:13] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I went looking for a discord client that doesn't suck, and didn't find one.  But looking at the list of discord features, it seems that an open source replacement could be made relatively easily, since all the parts are already there
[2023-11-09 18:40:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anyway, I went looking for a discord client that doesn't suck, and didn't find one.  But looking at the list of discord features, it seems that an open source replacement could be made relatively easily, since all the parts are already there
[2023-11-09 18:41:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Did you not find ripcord? Or does that not suit?
[2023-11-09 18:41:17] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Did you not find ripcord? Or does that not suit?
[2023-11-09 18:41:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Cancel is a pretty decent chap
[2023-11-09 18:41:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Cancel is a pretty decent chap
[2023-11-09 18:42:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
[2023-11-09 18:42:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
[2023-11-09 18:42:11] <Lucifer_arma> still closed source
[2023-11-09 18:42:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| still closed source
[2023-11-09 18:42:40] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| bleh
[2023-11-09 18:42:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| bleh
[2023-11-09 18:43:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Lucifer_arma, you're not going to use a closed source service or just a closed source client that you're refusing to use?
[2023-11-09 18:43:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Lucifer_arma, you're not going to use a closed source service or just a closed source client that you're refusing to use?
[2023-11-09 18:43:34] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| again, use bitblee if you want, you'll have to sign up on the website and get started on the web app regardless
[2023-11-09 18:43:34] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| again, use bitblee if you want, you'll have to sign up on the website and get started on the web app regardless
[2023-11-09 18:43:45] <Lucifer_arma> @Juesto: I'm not installing closed source apps on my computer.  I have to be more flexible on my phone, but I dont' have to on my computer anymore
[2023-11-09 18:43:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its your loss if you dont want to use it
[2023-11-09 18:43:45] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its your loss if you dont want to use it
[2023-11-09 18:43:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Juesto: I'm not installing closed source apps on my computer.  I have to be more flexible on my phone, but I dont' have to on my computer anymore
[2023-11-09 18:43:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about using closed source web apps
[2023-11-09 18:43:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about using closed source web apps
[2023-11-09 18:44:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| not a discord desktop application
[2023-11-09 18:44:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| not a discord desktop application
[2023-11-09 18:44:08] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| which is based on electron
[2023-11-09 18:44:09] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| which is based on electron
[2023-11-09 18:44:21] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| which its a web app packed into a desktop package
[2023-11-09 18:44:21] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| which its a web app packed into a desktop package
[2023-11-09 18:44:44] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you dont get it, dont you? discord is a web app
[2023-11-09 18:44:44] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you dont get it, dont you? discord is a web app
[2023-11-09 18:44:47] <Lucifer_arma> web apps are in a serious grey area.  But I avoid many of them
[2023-11-09 18:44:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| web apps are in a serious grey area.  But I avoid many of them
[2023-11-09 18:44:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2023-11-09 18:44:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2023-11-09 18:45:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| well then, your problem
[2023-11-09 18:45:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| well then, your problem
[2023-11-09 18:45:13] <Lucifer_arma> dude, I know what discord is.  It's a "chat network" with various voice/video features that's owned by a single company
[2023-11-09 18:45:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| dude, I know what discord is.  It's a "chat network" with various voice/video features that's owned by a single company
[2023-11-09 18:45:25] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry
[2023-11-09 18:45:26] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry
[2023-11-09 18:45:28] <Lucifer_arma> that's never been a problem before, right?  Letting one company own so much?
[2023-11-09 18:45:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that's never been a problem before, right?  Letting one company own so much?
[2023-11-09 18:45:46] <Lucifer_arma> closed protocols, closed source
[2023-11-09 18:45:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| closed protocols, closed source
[2023-11-09 18:45:53] <Lucifer_arma> the internet was built on open protocols and open source
[2023-11-09 18:45:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the internet was built on open protocols and open source
[2023-11-09 18:46:14] <Lucifer_arma> and like I said yesterday, nobody should have to install a closed source app to play an open source game
[2023-11-09 18:46:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and like I said yesterday, nobody should have to install a closed source app to play an open source game
[2023-11-09 18:47:23] <Lucifer_arma> curiously enough, back in the 80s, there were two competing internet protocols.  One guy wanted a royalty for one of them, and that's how we ended up with the internet protocol we have: it's the one that was open
[2023-11-09 18:47:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| curiously enough, back in the 80s, there were two competing internet protocols.  One guy wanted a royalty for one of them, and that's how we ended up with the internet protocol we have: it's the one that was open
[2023-11-09 18:48:23] <Lucifer_arma> I'm curious what it would take to integrate an irc client with any of these open source voip/video networks
[2023-11-09 18:48:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm curious what it would take to integrate an irc client with any of these open source voip/video networks
[2023-11-09 18:49:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma what os are you running?
[2023-11-09 18:49:31] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma what os are you running?
[2023-11-09 18:49:46] <Lucifer_arma> Kubuntu 22.04LTS
[2023-11-09 18:49:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Kubuntu 22.04LTS
[2023-11-09 18:50:46] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| jitsi has xmpp and irc built in
[2023-11-09 18:50:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| jitsi has xmpp and irc built in
[2023-11-09 18:50:51] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| a bit like pidgin
[2023-11-09 18:50:52] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| a bit like pidgin
[2023-11-09 18:51:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://github.com/ayn2op/discordo looks pretty awesome tbf. Pretty much IRC style but for discord
[2023-11-09 18:51:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://github.com/ayn2op/discordo looks pretty awesome tbf. Pretty much IRC style but for discord
[2023-11-09 18:51:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why not a matrix bridge? through its a bit of hell
[2023-11-09 18:51:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why not a matrix bridge? through its a bit of hell
[2023-11-09 18:51:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| he doesnt want to connect to a closed protocol duh
[2023-11-09 18:51:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| he doesnt want to connect to a closed protocol duh
[2023-11-09 18:51:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto you're already using a matrix bridge
[2023-11-09 18:51:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto you're already using a matrix bridge
[2023-11-09 18:51:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh heh
[2023-11-09 18:51:43] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh heh
[2023-11-09 18:51:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| that's what mattermost is, a matrix/slack/telegram/irc/discord/etcetcetc bridge
[2023-11-09 18:51:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| that's what mattermost is, a matrix/slack/telegram/irc/discord/etcetcetc bridge
[2023-11-09 18:51:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im on discord not matrix
[2023-11-09 18:51:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im on discord not matrix
[2023-11-09 18:52:48] <Lucifer_arma> I like the bridge a lot.  I found another one when I was looking that would actually create irc users for every discord person
[2023-11-09 18:52:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I like the bridge a lot.  I found another one when I was looking that would actually create irc users for every discord person
[2023-11-09 18:53:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://github.com/uowuo/abaddon looks even better
[2023-11-09 18:53:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://github.com/uowuo/abaddon looks even better
[2023-11-09 18:53:02] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: that one looks great, but it's a terminal app
[2023-11-09 18:53:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: that one looks great, but it's a terminal app
[2023-11-09 18:53:11] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| Shouldn't have to install a closed source app, but we don't have an in game queue system like most modern games so we have to make our own. So then if we want a queue system we have to put it somewhere that is easy for people to use for any sort of adoption. Discord is perfect because most people already have an account and know how to use it. I'd say its popularity is the best r <clipped message>
[2023-11-09 18:53:11] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| Shouldn't have to install a closed source app, but we don't have an in game queue system like most modern games so we have to make our own. So then if we want a queue system we have to put it somewhere that is easy for people to use for any sort of adoption. Discord is perfect because most people already have an account and know how to use it. I'd say its popularity is the best r <clipped message>
[2023-11-09 18:53:11] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| eason to use it as our main mode of communication just because it has the best chance of keeping any semblance of a community
[2023-11-09 18:53:12] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| eason to use it as our main mode of communication just because it has the best chance of keeping any semblance of a community
[2023-11-09 18:53:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma even better, no
[2023-11-09 18:53:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma even better, no
[2023-11-09 18:53:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ?
[2023-11-09 18:53:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ?
[2023-11-09 18:53:46] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| implement the queue system instead of working around it lol
[2023-11-09 18:53:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| implement the queue system instead of working around it lol
[2023-11-09 18:53:47] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| But ya maybe there's an easy 3rd party open source client you can use
[2023-11-09 18:53:47] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| But ya maybe there's an easy 3rd party open source client you can use
[2023-11-09 18:53:55] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| sure but who
[2023-11-09 18:53:56] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| sure but who
[2023-11-09 18:54:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| go figure
[2023-11-09 18:54:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| go figure
[2023-11-09 18:54:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| or even some matchmaking
[2023-11-09 18:54:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| or even some matchmaking
[2023-11-09 18:55:34] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| implementing something in client would be great, but we don't really have anyone with both knowledge and time to make that happen, so we go for next best
[2023-11-09 18:55:34] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| implementing something in client would be great, but we don't really have anyone with both knowledge and time to make that happen, so we go for next best
[2023-11-09 18:56:07] <Lucifer_arma> @Nanu: what do you mean by queue system?  Are you talking about for the pickup games?  (We did have an irc pickup bot at one point, dunno what happened to it, epsy managed it)
[2023-11-09 18:56:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Nanu: what do you mean by queue system?  Are you talking about for the pickup games?  (We did have an irc pickup bot at one point, dunno what happened to it, epsy managed it)
[2023-11-09 18:56:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i understand
[2023-11-09 18:56:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i understand
[2023-11-09 18:56:52] <Lucifer_arma> I understand the discord choice.  I'm not bitching about other people using it, I'm saying I'm not going to.  I'm much more likely to write code to make discord obsolete than use it myself.
[2023-11-09 18:56:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I understand the discord choice.  I'm not bitching about other people using it, I'm saying I'm not going to.  I'm much more likely to write code to make discord obsolete than use it myself.
[2023-11-09 18:56:57] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| Yea like pickup games, and I know irc works but discord has been huge in bringing back activity to the game
[2023-11-09 18:56:57] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| Yea like pickup games, and I know irc works but discord has been huge in bringing back activity to the game
[2023-11-09 18:57:03] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| gotcha
[2023-11-09 18:57:04] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| gotcha
[2023-11-09 18:57:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto bridging with pickup is on the back burner. It would require some sort of user creation process that would have to be babied somewhat, because we use matchmaking that, at present, relies on discord user IDs. We'd need to change that and create a user *object* that can support either a discord ID or IRC ident, or both, and also implement some logic to prevent people adding <clipped message>
[2023-11-09 18:57:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @Juesto bridging with pickup is on the back burner. It would require some sort of user creation process that would have to be babied somewhat, because we use matchmaking that, at present, relies on discord user IDs. We'd need to change that and create a user *object* that can support either a discord ID or IRC ident, or both, and also implement some logic to prevent people adding <clipped message>
[2023-11-09 18:57:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent|  twice. Some of the DB stuff is already implemented on my server, but we're talking about three separate projects, run by three separate people, and on three different codebases. It's not going to happen quickly, in all honesty
[2023-11-09 18:57:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent|  twice. Some of the DB stuff is already implemented on my server, but we're talking about three separate projects, run by three separate people, and on three different codebases. It's not going to happen quickly, in all honesty
[2023-11-09 18:57:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| we'd also need to figure out a reminder subtask that can join IRC and pm users there
[2023-11-09 18:57:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| we'd also need to figure out a reminder subtask that can join IRC and pm users there
[2023-11-09 18:57:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| that part isnt hard
[2023-11-09 18:57:43] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| that part isnt hard
[2023-11-09 18:57:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| but the whole process just takes *time*
[2023-11-09 18:57:49] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| but the whole process just takes *time*
[2023-11-09 18:57:57] <Lucifer_arma> anybody happen to know if there's a python module that provides the discord protocol?
[2023-11-09 18:57:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anybody happen to know if there's a python module that provides the discord protocol?
[2023-11-09 18:58:03] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| yes
[2023-11-09 18:58:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| yes
[2023-11-09 18:58:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| its called discord
[2023-11-09 18:58:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| its called discord
[2023-11-09 18:58:13] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| pip -m install discord
[2023-11-09 18:58:13] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| pip -m install discord
[2023-11-09 18:58:39] <Lucifer_arma> https://discordpy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
[2023-11-09 18:58:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://discordpy.readthedocs.io/en/stable/
[2023-11-09 18:59:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| as for the time investment thing, I'm currently putting just about all my brain taime into development of my own business offering, so anything bigger than a small implementation like Rinzler is a big ask at the moment
[2023-11-09 18:59:19] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| as for the time investment thing, I'm currently putting just about all my brain taime into development of my own business offering, so anything bigger than a small implementation like Rinzler is a big ask at the moment
[2023-11-09 18:59:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma yeah that one
[2023-11-09 18:59:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma yeah that one
[2023-11-09 18:59:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you're going to make an account and grab the token, inevitable use of the website
[2023-11-09 18:59:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you're going to make an account and grab the token, inevitable use of the website
[2023-11-09 19:01:01] <Lucifer_arma> looks like the old supybot has been forked because of lack of maintenance.  Now it's limnoria
[2023-11-09 19:01:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| looks like the old supybot has been forked because of lack of maintenance.  Now it's limnoria
[2023-11-09 19:02:23] <Lucifer_arma> also, on the whole discord vs irc question, I don't like either, to be honest.  Irc just happens to be pretty convenient, but when the freenode thing happened, it showed the weakness in irc
[2023-11-09 19:02:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, on the whole discord vs irc question, I don't like either, to be honest.  Irc just happens to be pretty convenient, but when the freenode thing happened, it showed the weakness in irc
[2023-11-09 19:02:32] <Lucifer_arma> what we really need is something discord-sized, but open
[2023-11-09 19:02:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| what we really need is something discord-sized, but open
[2023-11-09 19:02:56] <Lucifer_arma> again, something that doesn't exist, because if it did, we'd all be there right now instead of having *this* conversaiton :)
[2023-11-09 19:02:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| again, something that doesn't exist, because if it did, we'd all be there right now instead of having *this* conversaiton :)
[2023-11-09 19:03:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma here's the basics for making discord python stuff work. Making a bot is a bit of a pisstake on the platform itself but this should get you going quick enough
[2023-11-09 19:03:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma here's the basics for making discord python stuff work. Making a bot is a bit of a pisstake on the platform itself but this should get you going quick enough
[2023-11-09 19:03:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://vixen.international/assets/pub/discordbasics.py
[2023-11-09 19:03:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://vixen.international/assets/pub/discordbasics.py
[2023-11-09 19:03:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh it does exist, but discord shattered the market
[2023-11-09 19:03:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh it does exist, but discord shattered the market
[2023-11-09 19:03:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Revolt is the open source discord
[2023-11-09 19:03:43] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Revolt is the open source discord
[2023-11-09 19:03:44] <Lucifer_arma> I was actually considering the idea of putting discord into supybot/limnoria and using that for the bridge
[2023-11-09 19:03:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was actually considering the idea of putting discord into supybot/limnoria and using that for the bridge
[2023-11-09 19:04:44] <Lucifer_arma> or, what would really be best, is if there's a bridge that can connect to both discord and irc as the respective users.  One serious limitation of this bridge is that I have no idea who's on the discord side of the bridge
[2023-11-09 19:04:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| or, what would really be best, is if there's a bridge that can connect to both discord and irc as the respective users.  One serious limitation of this bridge is that I have no idea who's on the discord side of the bridge
[2023-11-09 19:04:53] <Lucifer_arma> presumably, people on discord don't know who's on the irc side
[2023-11-09 19:04:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| presumably, people on discord don't know who's on the irc side
[2023-11-09 19:05:43] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| oh does it not show some sort of prefix, on here we see ex: irc | Lucifer_arma
[2023-11-09 19:05:43] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| oh does it not show some sort of prefix, on here we see ex: irc | Lucifer_arma
[2023-11-09 19:06:24] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| It does, what Lucier wants is the full userlist. It's not impossible - I could conceivably configure rinzler to enumerate a full list and pipe it via PM maybe
[2023-11-09 19:06:24] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| It does, what Lucier wants is the full userlist. It's not impossible - I could conceivably configure rinzler to enumerate a full list and pipe it via PM maybe
[2023-11-09 19:06:46] <Lucifer_arma> I don't know that it's worth the time right now, tbf
[2023-11-09 19:06:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't know that it's worth the time right now, tbf
[2023-11-09 19:06:53] <Lucifer_arma> we've both got our own high priority stuff going on :)
[2023-11-09 19:06:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we've both got our own high priority stuff going on :)
[2023-11-09 19:07:02] <Lucifer_arma> I think the lowest hanging fruit here is the lua stuff I was looking at yesterday
[2023-11-09 19:07:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think the lowest hanging fruit here is the lua stuff I was looking at yesterday
[2023-11-09 19:07:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya I had the same thought when it was first brought up, but it isn't worth it until IRC is more heavily populated I don;'t think
[2023-11-09 19:07:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya I had the same thought when it was first brought up, but it isn't worth it until IRC is more heavily populated I don;'t think
[2023-11-09 19:08:09] <Lucifer_arma> I'll look and see if there's a lua module that gives discord/irc protocols.  If there is, that'll make the decision pretty easy.  Then I'll look into adding hooks to arma.
[2023-11-09 19:08:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll look and see if there's a lua module that gives discord/irc protocols.  If there is, that'll make the decision pretty easy.  Then I'll look into adding hooks to arma.
[2023-11-09 19:08:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you dont need to make a bot, but its riskier to use a user bot
[2023-11-09 19:08:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you dont need to make a bot, but its riskier to use a user bot
[2023-11-09 19:08:23] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the issue with Discord is that it's not always easy to enumerate the user's display name either - you might have noticed, for example, that tanner is represented in IRC by his username rather than his display name
[2023-11-09 19:08:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the issue with Discord is that it's not always easy to enumerate the user's display name either - you might have noticed, for example, that tanner is represented in IRC by his username rather than his display name
[2023-11-09 19:09:14] <Lucifer_arma> well, to make the pickup thing happen, script hooks in arma would make the teams happen, and all that needs to happen in discord/irc is let people know there's a pickup happening
[2023-11-09 19:09:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, to make the pickup thing happen, script hooks in arma would make the teams happen, and all that needs to happen in discord/irc is let people know there's a pickup happening
[2023-11-09 19:09:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ah, we don't do the picking in-server anymore, it's handled automatically now
[2023-11-09 19:09:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ah, we don't do the picking in-server anymore, it's handled automatically now
[2023-11-09 19:09:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| it says you have to make a bot because its the way to go but before bots you could use your user token and have a user bot, its still a valid avenue today but you'll get suspended if caught abusing or something
[2023-11-09 19:09:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| it says you have to make a bot because its the way to go but before bots you could use your user token and have a user bot, its still a valid avenue today but you'll get suspended if caught abusing or something
[2023-11-09 19:10:14] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| just make a irc bot that communicates with the bot on discord
[2023-11-09 19:10:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| just make a irc bot that communicates with the bot on discord
[2023-11-09 19:10:28] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I haven't looked at them closely, but there are open source front ends for Discord if that helps:
[2023-11-09 19:10:28] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I haven't looked at them closely, but there are open source front ends for Discord if that helps:
[2023-11-09 19:10:28] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://github.com/GooseMod/OpenAsar
[2023-11-09 19:10:28] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://github.com/GooseMod/OpenAsar
[2023-11-09 19:10:29] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://github.com/diamondburned/gtkcord4
[2023-11-09 19:10:30] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://github.com/diamondburned/gtkcord4
[2023-11-09 19:10:39] <Lucifer_arma> I can give any of them a try
[2023-11-09 19:10:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can give any of them a try
[2023-11-09 19:10:58] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav: hey, that package went out to fredricksburg for some reason.  Is it USPS being weird?
[2023-11-09 19:10:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav: hey, that package went out to fredricksburg for some reason.  Is it USPS being weird?
[2023-11-09 19:11:11] <Lucifer_arma> there are irc and discord frameworks for lua
[2023-11-09 19:11:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there are irc and discord frameworks for lua
[2023-11-09 19:15:45] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Looks like it's just a distribution center. I'm guessing it'll get to Austin tomorrow or Saturday?
[2023-11-09 19:15:46] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Looks like it's just a distribution center. I'm guessing it'll get to Austin tomorrow or Saturday?
[2023-11-09 19:16:05] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: yeah, but the picking is in discord, near as I can tell.  It's also silly that someone sitting in a server has to leave for the match to start.
[2023-11-09 19:16:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: yeah, but the picking is in discord, near as I can tell.  It's also silly that someone sitting in a server has to leave for the match to start.
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[2023-11-09 19:16:37] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav: it went to austin already, then out to fredericksburg, which looks pretty silly to me.  I'm thinking it just got loaded onto the wrong truck.
[2023-11-09 19:16:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav: it went to austin already, then out to fredericksburg, which looks pretty silly to me.  I'm thinking it just got loaded onto the wrong truck.
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[2023-11-09 19:24:56] <Lucifer_arma> but tonight I have to make a book cover and get this story up on amazon for people to read
[2023-11-09 19:24:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but tonight I have to make a book cover and get this story up on amazon for people to read
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[2023-11-09 20:10:53] <Lucifer_arma> ok, it's done.  In up to 72 hours, you'll be able to buy my new ebook on amazon
[2023-11-09 20:10:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, it's done.  In up to 72 hours, you'll be able to buy my new ebook on amazon
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[2023-11-09 22:06:40] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLL25G7F/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1699585566&sr=8-1
[2023-11-09 22:06:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLL25G7F/ref=sr_1_1?qid=1699585566&sr=8-1
[2023-11-09 22:08:50] <Lucifer_arma> so it's up and ready to buy now.  :)
[2023-11-09 22:08:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so it's up and ready to buy now.  :)

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[2023-11-10 09:39:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma caan you make it available as a regular epub too? Amazon should allow you to do that and it lets me read it in libera
[2023-11-10 09:39:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma caan you make it available as a regular epub too? Amazon should allow you to do that and it lets me read it in libera
[2023-11-10 11:00:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suggest sending him a payment
[2023-11-10 11:00:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i suggest sending him a payment
[2023-11-10 11:00:52] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh nevermind
[2023-11-10 11:00:52] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh nevermind
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[2023-11-10 12:00:28] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| Are you able to sell this directly to us without the Amazon middleman, or you needed Amazon for the file conversion?
[2023-11-10 12:00:28] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| Are you able to sell this directly to us without the Amazon middleman, or you needed Amazon for the file conversion?
[2023-11-10 12:01:08] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| tbh surprised you would go the amazon route at all
[2023-11-10 12:01:09] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| tbh surprised you would go the amazon route at all
[2023-11-10 12:01:17] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| not that there's really good alternatives
[2023-11-10 12:01:17] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| not that there's really good alternatives
[2023-11-10 12:01:36] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| Amazon doesn't make your anti corporate shitlist?
[2023-11-10 12:01:38] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| Amazon doesn't make your anti corporate shitlist?
[2023-11-10 12:58:25] <Lucifer_arma> amazon is "ok", with the huge caveat that they're totally evil because Jeff Bezos is evil
[2023-11-10 12:58:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| amazon is "ok", with the huge caveat that they're totally evil because Jeff Bezos is evil
[2023-11-10 12:58:34] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: pm me on the forums an email address
[2023-11-10 12:58:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: pm me on the forums an email address
[2023-11-10 13:00:34] <Lucifer_arma> I need amazon for the print service right now, even though this is an ebook, I need all the books to be together
[2023-11-10 13:00:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I need amazon for the print service right now, even though this is an ebook, I need all the books to be together
[2023-11-10 13:00:58] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| and yknow destroying small businesses everywhere
[2023-11-10 13:00:59] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| and yknow destroying small businesses everywhere
[2023-11-10 13:01:43] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they're evil.  I *think* they're evil because of jeff bezos, but I don't know that for a fact.  But yeah, they're evil.
[2023-11-10 13:01:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, they're evil.  I *think* they're evil because of jeff bezos, but I don't know that for a fact.  But yeah, they're evil.
[2023-11-10 13:02:58] <Lucifer_arma> but the alternatives here for publishing aren't great, and the alternatives for the shopping is Walmart.
[2023-11-10 13:02:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but the alternatives here for publishing aren't great, and the alternatives for the shopping is Walmart.
[2023-11-10 13:07:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, just take payments without amazon
[2023-11-10 13:07:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, just take payments without amazon
[2023-11-10 13:09:18] <Lucifer_arma> @Juesto: that's not going to work at all.  But if you're curious to see how much amazon owns in this space, check out other ebook retailers.  Whoever starts carrying this one is owned by amazon.
[2023-11-10 13:09:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Juesto: that's not going to work at all.  But if you're curious to see how much amazon owns in this space, check out other ebook retailers.  Whoever starts carrying this one is owned by amazon.
[2023-11-10 13:09:30] <Lucifer_arma> But if you want to PM me your email address on the forums, I'll send you the epub
[2023-11-10 13:09:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| But if you want to PM me your email address on the forums, I'll send you the epub
[2023-11-10 13:09:56] <Lucifer_arma> that's, unfortunately, how I found out that amazon now owns goodreads
[2023-11-10 13:09:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that's, unfortunately, how I found out that amazon now owns goodreads
[2023-11-10 13:11:13] <Lucifer_arma> it'll be later when I send emails, because i have to go to work in a few minutes
[2023-11-10 13:11:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it'll be later when I send emails, because i have to go to work in a few minutes
[2023-11-10 13:52:12] <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, finding a less evil publisher has been on my todo list for a long time.  I need to have more to publish before that matters much, though.  I also need to have the money to buy my own ISBN, but that's only for print books
[2023-11-10 13:52:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh yeah, finding a less evil publisher has been on my todo list for a long time.  I need to have more to publish before that matters much, though.  I also need to have the money to buy my own ISBN, but that's only for print books
[2023-11-10 13:52:55] <Lucifer_arma> but there's no exclusive agreement here with amazon.  I can take my work anywhere I want, anytime.  I just need to find somebody else, and I can list simultaneously on amazon and anywhere else I want.
[2023-11-10 13:52:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but there's no exclusive agreement here with amazon.  I can take my work anywhere I want, anytime.  I just need to find somebody else, and I can list simultaneously on amazon and anywhere else I want.
[2023-11-10 13:53:11] <Lucifer_arma> This is just a matter of doing the legwork, which isn't worth doing until I have more writing to support
[2023-11-10 13:53:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| This is just a matter of doing the legwork, which isn't worth doing until I have more writing to support
[2023-11-10 14:36:21] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: no, krawall is out, could be that their logo stil is around and/or a reference to it in a commented/ifdefed out source bit.
[2023-11-10 14:36:21] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: no, krawall is out, could be that their logo stil is around and/or a reference to it in a commented/ifdefed out source bit.
[2023-11-10 15:26:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, so you dont mind losing money by sending copies?
[2023-11-10 15:26:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lucifer_arma, so you dont mind losing money by sending copies?
[2023-11-10 16:04:35] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i remember something krawall being a ./configure option when building, don't know if that part is still in there
[2023-11-10 16:04:35] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| i remember something krawall being a ./configure option when building, don't know if that part is still in there
[2023-11-10 17:06:55] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:dinosareyummy| I have a confession to make- I've shopped at Amazon before.
[2023-11-10 17:06:56] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:dinosareyummy| I have a confession to make- I've shopped at Amazon before.
[2023-11-10 17:06:59] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:dinosareyummy| There, I've said it.
[2023-11-10 17:06:59] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:dinosareyummy| There, I've said it.
[2023-11-10 17:10:34] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:dinosareyummy| Tron bike bandit?
[2023-11-10 17:10:34] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:dinosareyummy| Tron bike bandit?
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[2023-11-10 17:52:48] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| everyone has shopped on amazon at least once :D
[2023-11-10 17:52:49] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| everyone has shopped on amazon at least once :D
[2023-11-10 18:01:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma y'know, I'm using this neat little service that pops up my work on just about every store out there, and it'll give me a free ISBN too. They even have a print service.
[2023-11-10 18:01:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma y'know, I'm using this neat little service that pops up my work on just about every store out there, and it'll give me a free ISBN too. They even have a print service.
[2023-11-10 18:01:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.lulu.com/create/ebooks
[2023-11-10 18:01:12] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.lulu.com/create/ebooks
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[2023-11-10 22:34:06] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: So if I remove it from configure.ac, that's fine?  That's where I saw it :)
[2023-11-10 22:34:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: So if I remove it from configure.ac, that's fine?  That's where I saw it :)
[2023-11-10 22:34:55] <Lucifer_arma> Y'all have to remember that we have to choose our battles.  If we were relying on discord for serious infrastructure, that would be a problem.  Relying on Microsoft isn't exactly a problem, we're just watching to see what they do.  They're coming around, though.
[2023-11-10 22:34:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Y'all have to remember that we have to choose our battles.  If we were relying on discord for serious infrastructure, that would be a problem.  Relying on Microsoft isn't exactly a problem, we're just watching to see what they do.  They're coming around, though.
[2023-11-10 22:35:05] <Lucifer_arma> I also wouldn't support relying on amazon for project infrastructure
[2023-11-10 22:35:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I also wouldn't support relying on amazon for project infrastructure
[2023-11-10 22:35:45] <Lucifer_arma> The solution to amazon's evilness isn't going to be had through a boycott, because they're just so damn big.  It's through legislation and public shaming.
[2023-11-10 22:35:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| The solution to amazon's evilness isn't going to be had through a boycott, because they're just so damn big.  It's through legislation and public shaming.
[2023-11-10 22:36:16] <Lucifer_arma>  but the biggest problems with amazon aren't even amazon-specific, they're a symptom of our shitty economic system
[2023-11-10 22:36:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but the biggest problems with amazon aren't even amazon-specific, they're a symptom of our shitty economic system
[2023-11-10 22:36:50] <Lucifer_arma> so if you start attacking every company that does those same things, you're basically going to have to abandon society entirely and go raise your own food.
[2023-11-10 22:36:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so if you start attacking every company that does those same things, you're basically going to have to abandon society entirely and go raise your own food.
[2023-11-10 22:37:12] <Lucifer_arma> I'm lucky that the biggest grocery store in Texas is actually one of the Good Companies.  I don't have to shop at Randall's/Kroger/Safeway
[2023-11-10 22:37:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm lucky that the biggest grocery store in Texas is actually one of the Good Companies.  I don't have to shop at Randall's/Kroger/Safeway
[2023-11-10 22:37:52] <Lucifer_arma> so I vote pro-labor as much as possible, and not a week goes by when I don't regale someone of how amazon drivers and fulfillment center workers have to pee in bottles to avoid getting fired
[2023-11-10 22:37:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so I vote pro-labor as much as possible, and not a week goes by when I don't regale someone of how amazon drivers and fulfillment center workers have to pee in bottles to avoid getting fired
[2023-11-10 22:38:49] <Lucifer_arma> meanwhile, the solution to microsoft's evilness *was* open source software, and we won.  It took companies like google and apple signing on, but we won.
[2023-11-10 22:38:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| meanwhile, the solution to microsoft's evilness *was* open source software, and we won.  It took companies like google and apple signing on, but we won.
[2023-11-10 22:39:03] <Lucifer_arma> so the big question with microsoft now is "Are they going to stay trustworthy?"
[2023-11-10 22:39:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so the big question with microsoft now is "Are they going to stay trustworthy?"
[2023-11-10 22:39:29] <Lucifer_arma> IBM failed that test after they almost got broken up.  So I don't trust IBM, even though their adoption of open source was such a big component
[2023-11-10 22:39:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| IBM failed that test after they almost got broken up.  So I don't trust IBM, even though their adoption of open source was such a big component
[2023-11-10 22:39:54] <Lucifer_arma> so when you choose your battles, you don't necessarily choose what you can win, you choose what you can fight
[2023-11-10 22:39:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so when you choose your battles, you don't necessarily choose what you can win, you choose what you can fight
[2023-11-10 22:40:08] <Lucifer_arma> so I still fight idealogically against amazon, don't worry :)
[2023-11-10 22:40:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so I still fight idealogically against amazon, don't worry :)
[2023-11-10 22:40:26] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: I'll check out lulu
[2023-11-10 22:40:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: I'll check out lulu
[2023-11-10 22:40:42] <Lucifer_arma> @Juesto: yes, I'm perfectly happy handing out free copies, and I'm happy if y'all share them
[2023-11-10 22:40:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @Juesto: yes, I'm perfectly happy handing out free copies, and I'm happy if y'all share them
[2023-11-10 22:41:23] <Lucifer_arma> but if amazon asks, you tell them it's a private copy you got from the author, because I should be allowed to do that
[2023-11-10 22:41:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but if amazon asks, you tell them it's a private copy you got from the author, because I should be allowed to do that
[2023-11-10 22:41:42] <Lucifer_arma> but if I list the same book somewhere else for cheaper than on amazon, they reserve the right to match that price and cut into my royalties
[2023-11-10 22:41:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but if I list the same book somewhere else for cheaper than on amazon, they reserve the right to match that price and cut into my royalties
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[2023-11-11 11:14:21] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: I suppose so :) Try and see. And maybe grep.
[2023-11-11 11:14:22] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: I suppose so :) Try and see. And maybe grep.
[2023-11-11 12:14:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh damn
[2023-11-11 12:14:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh damn
[2023-11-11 12:15:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-11 12:15:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-11 12:16:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| thoughts on implementing the ability to see the console buffer when you open the console in menus?
[2023-11-11 12:16:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| thoughts on implementing the ability to see the console buffer when you open the console in menus?
[2023-11-11 12:16:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| currently you can only see it in-game, nowhere else
[2023-11-11 12:16:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| currently you can only see it in-game, nowhere else
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[2023-11-11 19:39:53] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Sounds like you're a communist @lucifer not very Texan of you
[2023-11-11 19:39:54] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| Sounds like you're a communist @lucifer not very Texan of you
[2023-11-11 22:40:06] <Lucifer_arma> @ZDHades: Definitely leaning hard towards socialism, and there are lots of Texans who do so as well.  Texas is like 50% non-voting liberal, and the government is setup to make it extremely difficult to elect anybody who's not conservative
[2023-11-11 22:40:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @ZDHades: Definitely leaning hard towards socialism, and there are lots of Texans who do so as well.  Texas is like 50% non-voting liberal, and the government is setup to make it extremely difficult to elect anybody who's not conservative
[2023-11-11 22:40:23] <Lucifer_arma> we may very well have to be 65% liberal to be able to get a liberal governor
[2023-11-11 22:40:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we may very well have to be 65% liberal to be able to get a liberal governor
[2023-11-11 22:41:19] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: heh, I wasn't planning on cleaning it up, I just noticed the --enable-krawall option in configure.ac when I was looking for the ruby stuff :)
[2023-11-11 22:41:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: heh, I wasn't planning on cleaning it up, I just noticed the --enable-krawall option in configure.ac when I was looking for the ruby stuff :)
[2023-11-11 22:42:16] <Lucifer_arma> @ZDHades: But it should be possible to be a conservative capitalist and believe in workers' rights.  They always promise us that there would be a free market for wages, and that never actually happens
[2023-11-11 22:42:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @ZDHades: But it should be possible to be a conservative capitalist and believe in workers' rights.  They always promise us that there would be a free market for wages, and that never actually happens
[2023-11-11 23:01:03] <Lucifer_arma> on a side note, nobody's PMd me an email address, so I haven't actually given anybody a copy.
[2023-11-11 23:01:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| on a side note, nobody's PMd me an email address, so I haven't actually given anybody a copy.
[2023-11-11 23:01:57] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav: looks like USPS is figuring it out.  The package is in pflugerville now.  I assume no sunday delivery, still, so I guess we're looking at Monday
[2023-11-11 23:01:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav: looks like USPS is figuring it out.  The package is in pflugerville now.  I assume no sunday delivery, still, so I guess we're looking at Monday

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[2023-11-12 01:36:56] <Lucifer_arma> the commodore amiga was the most influential computer in history.  Fight me.
[2023-11-12 01:36:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the commodore amiga was the most influential computer in history.  Fight me.
[2023-11-12 01:39:12] <Lucifer_arma> actually, since last I heard, ARM is in the direct lineage of the 6502 CPU, that would make the C64 more relevant now than the amiga
[2023-11-12 01:39:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| actually, since last I heard, ARM is in the direct lineage of the 6502 CPU, that would make the C64 more relevant now than the amiga
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[2023-11-12 02:23:53] <Lucifer_arma> you can almost guess what I'm watching based on my comments, heh.
[2023-11-12 02:23:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you can almost guess what I'm watching based on my comments, heh.
[2023-11-12 02:23:59] <Lucifer_arma> I think Star Trek 9 is a great movie
[2023-11-12 02:23:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think Star Trek 9 is a great movie
[2023-11-12 07:26:17] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| I would not say it's great, but it does come straight after the truly great ones (2,4,8, obvs.)
[2023-11-12 07:26:18] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| I would not say it's great, but it does come straight after the truly great ones (2,4,8, obvs.)
[2023-11-12 07:30:30] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Not a big re-watcher here. But all of the Trek moves come out of the box every couple of years. Well, abstractly speaking. I only have them IN a box since that last rewatch.
[2023-11-12 07:30:30] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Not a big re-watcher here. But all of the Trek moves come out of the box every couple of years. Well, abstractly speaking. I only have them IN a box since that last rewatch.
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[2023-11-12 09:30:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma nah fam I'mma pay you for it, only reason I asked is because it's currently set to kindle-only.
[2023-11-12 09:30:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma nah fam I'mma pay you for it, only reason I asked is because it's currently set to kindle-only.
[2023-11-12 09:33:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Insurrection was a great idea, just not executed perfectly. Had some issues, I think. The whole premise was very much jean-luc though. It was practically a TNG episode in film format
[2023-11-12 09:33:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Insurrection was a great idea, just not executed perfectly. Had some issues, I think. The whole premise was very much jean-luc though. It was practically a TNG episode in film format
[2023-11-12 09:34:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I didn't actually dislike Nemesis either tbh. The idea of a faction practically forcing the Romulan Empire to settle with the Federation could have been the precursor to a fantastic politically driven arc
[2023-11-12 09:34:57] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I didn't actually dislike Nemesis either tbh. The idea of a faction practically forcing the Romulan Empire to settle with the Federation could have been the precursor to a fantastic politically driven arc
[2023-11-12 09:35:32] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the books actually did that, the typhon pact series is masterfully done
[2023-11-12 09:35:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the books actually did that, the typhon pact series is masterfully done
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[2023-11-12 16:52:22] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| That's crazy the package got bounced around. I was so proud of myself for shipping it in less than 24 hours...
[2023-11-12 16:52:22] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| That's crazy the package got bounced around. I was so proud of myself for shipping it in less than 24 hours...
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[2023-11-12 22:31:16] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: There's no non-kindle-only option on amazon.  Now I'm on vacation, I'll take some time out to check out lulu
[2023-11-12 22:31:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: There's no non-kindle-only option on amazon.  Now I'm on vacation, I'll take some time out to check out lulu
[2023-11-12 22:31:32] <Lucifer_arma> Nemesis was a great sci-fi flick, terrible star trek
[2023-11-12 22:31:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Nemesis was a great sci-fi flick, terrible star trek
[2023-11-12 22:31:48] <Lucifer_arma> Insurrection had execution problems because of studio meddling, but there's a great movie that manages to shine through
[2023-11-12 22:31:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Insurrection had execution problems because of studio meddling, but there's a great movie that manages to shine through
[2023-11-12 22:32:22] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav: It got here today.  You should hang on to that pride, because it was USPS that fuckered up.  I really love the light cycle.  Thank you!  It's awesome
[2023-11-12 22:32:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav: It got here today.  You should hang on to that pride, because it was USPS that fuckered up.  I really love the light cycle.  Thank you!  It's awesome
[2023-11-12 22:32:42] <Lucifer_arma> is it safe to assume the white surfaces are the surfaces that need to be painted?
[2023-11-12 22:32:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| is it safe to assume the white surfaces are the surfaces that need to be painted?
[2023-11-12 22:34:20] <Lucifer_arma> I also think the search for spock is a great movie.  It does suffer a little bit from the genesis planet being shot on a sound stage, and the whole thing about David felt a bit contrived because he'd only just appeared in the previous movie
[2023-11-12 22:34:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I also think the search for spock is a great movie.  It does suffer a little bit from the genesis planet being shot on a sound stage, and the whole thing about David felt a bit contrived because he'd only just appeared in the previous movie
[2023-11-12 22:34:36] <Lucifer_arma> but I'm a star trek heretic.  I *love* Star Trek V.
[2023-11-12 22:34:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I'm a star trek heretic.  I *love* Star Trek V.
[2023-11-12 22:36:25] <Lucifer_arma> you should be able to use a kindle reader, or any app that can read kindle, but I haven't actually tried any of this
[2023-11-12 22:36:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you should be able to use a kindle reader, or any app that can read kindle, but I haven't actually tried any of this
[2023-11-12 22:40:41] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/consumer/automaker-says-it-cant-offer-mass-residents-certain-services-over-right-to-repair-law/3187555/
[2023-11-12 22:40:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/consumer/automaker-says-it-cant-offer-mass-residents-certain-services-over-right-to-repair-law/3187555/
[2023-11-12 22:41:11] <Lucifer_arma> ^^---- this is an example of the importance of open source software.  We're linked to the Right to Repair movement, but the right to repair movement hasn't figured it out yet
[2023-11-12 22:41:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ^^---- this is an example of the importance of open source software.  We're linked to the Right to Repair movement, but the right to repair movement hasn't figured it out yet
[2023-11-12 22:42:03] <Lucifer_arma> but automakers are basically saying they can't open up the protocols they've made because then they won't be "safe", meaning, of course, that either they've built shitty protocols loaded with vulnerabilities, or they really mean that the automakers won't be safe if their protocols are open
[2023-11-12 22:42:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but automakers are basically saying they can't open up the protocols they've made because then they won't be "safe", meaning, of course, that either they've built shitty protocols loaded with vulnerabilities, or they really mean that the automakers won't be safe if their protocols are open
[2023-11-12 22:42:56] <Lucifer_arma> but obviously the whole idea is to lock in buyers to only being able to go to dealer shops for service and repair, and Tesla is spearheading this effort
[2023-11-12 22:42:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but obviously the whole idea is to lock in buyers to only being able to go to dealer shops for service and repair, and Tesla is spearheading this effort
[2023-11-12 22:43:28] <Lucifer_arma> Teslas don't even have an OBDII port, having successfully argued that electric vehicles have no emissions, so no regulatory power exists to require them to have an OBDII port, or something like that
[2023-11-12 22:43:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Teslas don't even have an OBDII port, having successfully argued that electric vehicles have no emissions, so no regulatory power exists to require them to have an OBDII port, or something like that
[2023-11-12 22:44:04] <Lucifer_arma> but obviously if they had an OBDII port, that would help aftermarket shops to troubleshoot tesla problems, taking tesla owners out of tesla shops and into the aftermarket
[2023-11-12 22:44:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but obviously if they had an OBDII port, that would help aftermarket shops to troubleshoot tesla problems, taking tesla owners out of tesla shops and into the aftermarket
[2023-11-12 22:45:56] <Lucifer_arma> and also obvious: if the software were all open source, this conflict wouldn't exist.  As it is, automakers are taking open source and using it, but building on top of it a layer of closed source that makes it possible for them to lock it up
[2023-11-12 22:45:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and also obvious: if the software were all open source, this conflict wouldn't exist.  As it is, automakers are taking open source and using it, but building on top of it a layer of closed source that makes it possible for them to lock it up
[2023-11-12 22:46:03] <Lucifer_arma> similar to what's being done with Android
[2023-11-12 22:46:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| similar to what's being done with Android
[2023-11-12 22:48:53] <Lucifer_arma> crap, I forgot to buy batteries for the midi controller
[2023-11-12 22:48:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| crap, I forgot to buy batteries for the midi controller

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[2023-11-13 09:47:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'd also argue that part of the probem is regulation. You have private business lobbying your government, which dilutes the ability of your government to protect the consumer and wholly perverts the concept of democratic leadership. Right to repair is no good if, come next election, private entities simply support candidates who oppose the idea. I'm not sure Rossman has ever real <clipped message>
[2023-11-13 09:47:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'd also argue that part of the probem is regulation. You have private business lobbying your government, which dilutes the ability of your government to protect the consumer and wholly perverts the concept of democratic leadership. Right to repair is no good if, come next election, private entities simply support candidates who oppose the idea. I'm not sure Rossman has ever real <clipped message>
[2023-11-13 09:47:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ly addressed that, tbh. For regulation to be functional, no party can influence the process whatsoever. The process must rely on arbitration where wrongdoing is suspected, and arbitration must be public and impartial. 
[2023-11-13 09:47:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ly addressed that, tbh. For regulation to be functional, no party can influence the process whatsoever. The process must rely on arbitration where wrongdoing is suspected, and arbitration must be public and impartial. 
[2023-11-13 09:47:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for cars, I refuse to drive a car connected in any way to the internet. That solves *that* problem
[2023-11-13 09:47:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for cars, I refuse to drive a car connected in any way to the internet. That solves *that* problem
[2023-11-13 09:48:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm hunting for an unmodified LS400 at the moment. Only thing I'll ever do to it is convert it to manual. Might replace some panels with composite at some point.
[2023-11-13 09:48:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm hunting for an unmodified LS400 at the moment. Only thing I'll ever do to it is convert it to manual. Might replace some panels with composite at some point.
[2023-11-13 10:00:32] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:anjo| ls400 manual conversion would be lit
[2023-11-13 10:00:32] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:anjo| ls400 manual conversion would be lit
[2023-11-13 10:04:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I spotted one on a forum a few years ago and its sat in my mind ever since. It's kinda hard to do though, and up until now I never really had any street space in which to do it. Now, I have a little spot around tha back where I can stick a portalift and not get into too much bother
[2023-11-13 10:04:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I spotted one on a forum a few years ago and its sat in my mind ever since. It's kinda hard to do though, and up until now I never really had any street space in which to do it. Now, I have a little spot around tha back where I can stick a portalift and not get into too much bother
[2023-11-13 10:04:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| gotta find the trans first tho
[2023-11-13 10:04:58] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| gotta find the trans first tho
[2023-11-13 10:05:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm thinking maybe one of those 6x celica boxes
[2023-11-13 10:05:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm thinking maybe one of those 6x celica boxes
[2023-11-13 10:05:38] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| assuming I can actually find one that is
[2023-11-13 10:05:38] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| assuming I can actually find one that is
[2023-11-13 10:22:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| So apparently Switzerland has a rail replacement.... *helicopter*
[2023-11-13 10:22:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| So apparently Switzerland has a rail replacement.... *helicopter*
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[2023-11-13 13:39:11] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-11-13 14:56:54] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2023-11-13 17:47:48] <Lucifer_arma> well, internet connectivity isn't the issue.  There are new wireless troubleshooting tools that are essentially going to displace obdII, and those protocols and tools are closed up.
[2023-11-13 17:47:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, internet connectivity isn't the issue.  There are new wireless troubleshooting tools that are essentially going to displace obdII, and those protocols and tools are closed up.
[2023-11-13 17:48:10] <Lucifer_arma> as a result, there are a few newer cars that are actually pretty easily stolen using a smartphone and a few apps
[2023-11-13 17:48:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as a result, there are a few newer cars that are actually pretty easily stolen using a smartphone and a few apps
[2023-11-13 17:48:32] <Lucifer_arma> it's like the automakers looked at Microsoft and said "Security through obscurity worked pretty well for them, so we'll try it, too"
[2023-11-13 17:48:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's like the automakers looked at Microsoft and said "Security through obscurity worked pretty well for them, so we'll try it, too"
[2023-11-13 17:49:02] <Lucifer_arma> and of course with it all being closed, individual owners can't do anything about it, even if they have the know-how
[2023-11-13 17:49:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and of course with it all being closed, individual owners can't do anything about it, even if they have the know-how
[2023-11-13 17:49:30] <Lucifer_arma> this is all ignoring how many times aftermarket manufacturers not only fix issues with OEM parts, but actually improve them
[2023-11-13 17:49:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| this is all ignoring how many times aftermarket manufacturers not only fix issues with OEM parts, but actually improve them
[2023-11-13 17:50:14] <Lucifer_arma> several times a month I have to explain to a customer that the reason the aftermarket part they're buying looks different than the OEM part it's replacing is because the OEM part had an issue that the aftermarket part fixes
[2023-11-13 17:50:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| several times a month I have to explain to a customer that the reason the aftermarket part they're buying looks different than the OEM part it's replacing is because the OEM part had an issue that the aftermarket part fixes
[2023-11-13 17:50:39] <Lucifer_arma> and it's not just cars.  It's phones, tractors (Deere is in the middle of all of this), appliances, everything
[2023-11-13 17:50:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and it's not just cars.  It's phones, tractors (Deere is in the middle of all of this), appliances, everything
[2023-11-13 17:51:54] <Lucifer_arma> as much as I love the old Amiga, and as much as commodore really fucked itself the last few years, the real reason PCs took over is because of the expansion busses (ISA, PCI, PCIe, etc), memory slots, CPU slots, etc.
[2023-11-13 17:51:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as much as I love the old Amiga, and as much as commodore really fucked itself the last few years, the real reason PCs took over is because of the expansion busses (ISA, PCI, PCIe, etc), memory slots, CPU slots, etc.
[2023-11-13 17:52:25] <Lucifer_arma> being able to build your own wasn't just great for individuals, it's what made all the early pc makers possible in the first place
[2023-11-13 17:52:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| being able to build your own wasn't just great for individuals, it's what made all the early pc makers possible in the first place
[2023-11-13 17:53:11] <Lucifer_arma> I don't understand how people can look at the history of technology and see how open standards and formats have always advanced us and think that a closed standard or format is the right move
[2023-11-13 17:53:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't understand how people can look at the history of technology and see how open standards and formats have always advanced us and think that a closed standard or format is the right move
[2023-11-13 17:54:11] <Lucifer_arma> remember VHS vs BetaMax?  That's not even the earliest example in the format wars, because the LP records had to beat out the singles that were before it
[2023-11-13 17:54:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| remember VHS vs BetaMax?  That's not even the earliest example in the format wars, because the LP records had to beat out the singles that were before it
[2023-11-13 17:54:57] <Lucifer_arma> but one of the reasons betamax lost was because you had to have a license to make tapes.  The old joke about how porn picked VHS is kinda true, but not limited to porn, and it revolves around not having to get a license to produce VHS tapes
[2023-11-13 17:54:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but one of the reasons betamax lost was because you had to have a license to make tapes.  The old joke about how porn picked VHS is kinda true, but not limited to porn, and it revolves around not having to get a license to produce VHS tapes
[2023-11-13 17:55:50] <Lucifer_arma> I just watched a documentary on a video disc format that came out in the early 80s before laserdisc that got killed because it was a closed, proprietary format.  There was a kodak camera (a disc camera) that had the same issue.
[2023-11-13 17:55:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I just watched a documentary on a video disc format that came out in the early 80s before laserdisc that got killed because it was a closed, proprietary format.  There was a kodak camera (a disc camera) that had the same issue.
[2023-11-13 17:56:20] <Lucifer_arma> each of them also had quality issues that, in a vibrant competitive market, could have been fixed by other companies who liked the format and ultimately could have made it
[2023-11-13 17:56:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| each of them also had quality issues that, in a vibrant competitive market, could have been fixed by other companies who liked the format and ultimately could have made it
[2023-11-13 17:56:50] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, back to work.  THis isn't a real vacation, I took the time with the intent of working on some things
[2023-11-13 17:56:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anyway, back to work.  THis isn't a real vacation, I took the time with the intent of working on some things
[2023-11-13 19:13:47] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| You can do whatever to that cycle. It's just one of the ones I made a while back, was trying out different color schemes. Here are more:
[2023-11-13 19:13:47] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| You can do whatever to that cycle. It's just one of the ones I made a while back, was trying out different color schemes. Here are more:
[2023-11-13 19:13:47] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://brianhilmers.com/projects/adventuresoftron/3d/
[2023-11-13 19:13:48] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://brianhilmers.com/projects/adventuresoftron/3d/
[2023-11-13 20:29:44] <Lucifer_arma> anybody here ever use slurm?
[2023-11-13 20:29:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anybody here ever use slurm?
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[2023-11-13 22:23:15] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I think I'm going to restart the stockanalyst project completely using slurm for the cluster
[2023-11-13 22:23:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I think I'm going to restart the stockanalyst project completely using slurm for the cluster

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[2023-11-14 13:26:21] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:olive| Tangentially related, the main airport in NL was supposed to decrease their number of flights due to environmental concerns and noise thresholds. One American company was set to lose a slot. Apparently US government retaliated by threatening to cut off the NL airlines entirely. The plan is now binned.
[2023-11-14 13:26:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:olive| Tangentially related, the main airport in NL was supposed to decrease their number of flights due to environmental concerns and noise thresholds. One American company was set to lose a slot. Apparently US government retaliated by threatening to cut off the NL airlines entirely. The plan is now binned.
[2023-11-14 13:57:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I mean... cutting of the US is technically a benefit, right?
[2023-11-14 13:57:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I mean... cutting of the US is technically a benefit, right?
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[2023-11-14 17:43:23] <Lucifer_arma> NL = Netherlands, right?  I'm not seeing the issue here.  They could've let the US go and just focused their airlines on other places.
[2023-11-14 17:43:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| NL = Netherlands, right?  I'm not seeing the issue here.  They could've let the US go and just focused their airlines on other places.
[2023-11-14 18:49:37] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: Why not?  UK should just go all kamikaze and cut off everyone, considering how Brexit was such a huge success
[2023-11-14 18:49:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: Why not?  UK should just go all kamikaze and cut off everyone, considering how Brexit was such a huge success
[2023-11-14 19:25:47] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I need to push a git repository I just created to a different machine.  I have ssh access to the machine.  I'm trying to do something like "bzr push bzr+ssh://blahblah" to create an upstream repo from my local repo
[2023-11-14 19:25:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I need to push a git repository I just created to a different machine.  I have ssh access to the machine.  I'm trying to do something like "bzr push bzr+ssh://blahblah" to create an upstream repo from my local repo
[2023-11-14 19:25:59] <Lucifer_arma> anybody know how?  Z-Man?
[2023-11-14 19:25:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anybody know how?  Z-Man?
[2023-11-14 19:37:00] <Lucifer_arma> nvm.  After typing out the question, I figured out what to search.  I've got it handled now.
[2023-11-14 19:37:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| nvm.  After typing out the question, I figured out what to search.  I've got it handled now.
[2023-11-14 20:43:14] <Lucifer_arma> it's a little disappointing that I never made it to a 0.2.0 release, but that's ok because I've just replaced a whole bunch of code with somebody else's project, and I'm not going to have to worry about writing that pesky cluster stuff ever again
[2023-11-14 20:43:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's a little disappointing that I never made it to a 0.2.0 release, but that's ok because I've just replaced a whole bunch of code with somebody else's project, and I'm not going to have to worry about writing that pesky cluster stuff ever again
[2023-11-14 20:43:44] <Lucifer_arma> turns out slurm does all the job scheduling I was writing, and it's written by LANL (mostly), and it runs on like 400 of the top 500 supercomputers.
[2023-11-14 20:43:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| turns out slurm does all the job scheduling I was writing, and it's written by LANL (mostly), and it runs on like 400 of the top 500 supercomputers.
[2023-11-14 20:44:15] <Lucifer_arma> so, once I get the basic cluster running again (updating stock history, etc), then I'm not working on the cluster itself any more, for the most part
[2023-11-14 20:44:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, once I get the basic cluster running again (updating stock history, etc), then I'm not working on the cluster itself any more, for the most part
[2023-11-14 20:44:46] <Lucifer_arma> I'm kicking myself for not looking harder, because slurm is a pretty old project, and if I had found it four years ago, I'd be faaaaaar ahead of where I am now
[2023-11-14 20:44:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm kicking myself for not looking harder, because slurm is a pretty old project, and if I had found it four years ago, I'd be faaaaaar ahead of where I am now
[2023-11-14 20:46:03] <Lucifer_arma> still, it's better late than never with this one.  I have minimal reworking to do, since I was good about the OOP stuff.  I have to rewrite the Job base class, and then move everything to cronjobs
[2023-11-14 20:46:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| still, it's better late than never with this one.  I have minimal reworking to do, since I was good about the OOP stuff.  I have to rewrite the Job base class, and then move everything to cronjobs

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[2023-11-15 05:52:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma I jest, but only a little. That sort of heavy boots approach to foreign policy does not sit well with me. But let's not turn this into /pol/.
[2023-11-15 05:52:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma I jest, but only a little. That sort of heavy boots approach to foreign policy does not sit well with me. But let's not turn this into /pol/.
[2023-11-15 05:52:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm going to try and get a few more chapters done today. Maybe even a release before the solstice, which would be nice. I've sat on this book for far too long and my imagination has pretty much written an entire series in the universe I created. I feel like I'm back in primary school, I distinctly remember talking about seeing what I wanted to draw but being unable to actually dr <clipped message>
[2023-11-15 05:52:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm going to try and get a few more chapters done today. Maybe even a release before the solstice, which would be nice. I've sat on this book for far too long and my imagination has pretty much written an entire series in the universe I created. I feel like I'm back in primary school, I distinctly remember talking about seeing what I wanted to draw but being unable to actually dr <clipped message>
[2023-11-15 05:52:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| aw it. Althoguh tbf that was more likely dyspraxia... which I should really go and get properly diagnosed at some point soon
[2023-11-15 05:52:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| aw it. Althoguh tbf that was more likely dyspraxia... which I should really go and get properly diagnosed at some point soon
[2023-11-15 06:16:43] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: I'm not a big fan of US bullying foreign policy either.  I was poking fun at Brexit, of course.  ;)
[2023-11-15 06:17:03] <Lucifer_arma> believe it or not, most americans don't like it--when they know what's happening
[2023-11-15 06:17:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: I'm not a big fan of US bullying foreign policy either.  I was poking fun at Brexit, of course.  ;)
[2023-11-15 06:17:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| believe it or not, most americans don't like it--when they know what's happening
[2023-11-15 06:37:54] <Lucifer_arma> ok, why is slurm only allocating one job at a time to each machine when each one has four cores?
[2023-11-15 06:37:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, why is slurm only allocating one job at a time to each machine when each one has four cores?
[2023-11-15 06:55:56] <Lucifer_arma> fixed
[2023-11-15 06:56:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| fixed
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[2023-11-15 08:59:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm debating Manjaro or NixOS for my next daily, now that Fedora is so very fucked. Manjaro has access to the AUR, but NixOS has incredible single-file system config options. Either option would be with the Plasma desktop, since I prefer it and have oodles of system memory to throw at it. Thoughts?
[2023-11-15 08:59:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm debating Manjaro or NixOS for my next daily, now that Fedora is so very fucked. Manjaro has access to the AUR, but NixOS has incredible single-file system config options. Either option would be with the Plasma desktop, since I prefer it and have oodles of system memory to throw at it. Thoughts?
[2023-11-15 09:01:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Apparently NixOS has an AUR equivalent called NUR, which could be useful
[2023-11-15 09:01:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Apparently NixOS has an AUR equivalent called NUR, which could be useful
[2023-11-15 10:43:52] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Im on manjaro for 6y now. Also gnome shell is da wae
[2023-11-15 10:43:53] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Im on manjaro for 6y now. Also gnome shell is da wae
[2023-11-15 10:44:28] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Besides aur I also use snap and flatpaj
[2023-11-15 10:44:28] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Besides aur I also use snap and flatpaj
[2023-11-15 10:45:12] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| In any case kde connect / hs connect is so useful if u have an android phone 😉
[2023-11-15 10:45:12] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| In any case kde connect / hs connect is so useful if u have an android phone 😉
[2023-11-15 10:45:57] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| So either kde or gs
[2023-11-15 10:45:57] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| So either kde or gs
[2023-11-15 10:54:59] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| btw i finally found a simple audio visualizer calle cavalier
[2023-11-15 10:54:59] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| btw i finally found a simple audio visualizer calle cavalier
[2023-11-15 10:55:00] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1174377015810461806/Bildschirmfoto_vom_2023-11-15_16-13-14.png?ex=65675ed3&is=6554e9d3&hm=e157af165d51cacf288a5d78c88544610f80ead8c645c24798fada06b0606d47&
[2023-11-15 10:55:01] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1174377015810461806/Bildschirmfoto_vom_2023-11-15_16-13-14.png?ex=65675ed3&is=6554e9d3&hm=e157af165d51cacf288a5d78c88544610f80ead8c645c24798fada06b0606d47&
[2023-11-15 10:55:55] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| also there is trhis, https://biniou.net/  will dive into it later 😛
[2023-11-15 10:55:55] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| also there is trhis, https://biniou.net/  will dive into it later 😛
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[2023-11-15 18:43:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Hurray I have written three paragraphs
[2023-11-15 18:43:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Hurray I have written three paragraphs
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[2023-11-15 19:13:03] <Lucifer_arma> KDE Connect is awesome.  I'm in Kubuntu, and have been copying and pasting back and forth from my computer to my phone for years
[2023-11-15 19:13:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| KDE Connect is awesome.  I'm in Kubuntu, and have been copying and pasting back and forth from my computer to my phone for years
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[2023-11-16 02:58:40] <Lucifer_arma> ok, so in just a couple of days, it looks like I've got my cluster running all the same stuff, but much more reliably and at a much higher level of performance
[2023-11-16 02:58:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, so in just a couple of days, it looks like I've got my cluster running all the same stuff, but much more reliably and at a much higher level of performance
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[2023-11-16 09:46:41] <Lucifer_arma> neat.  Now I can shut down the cluster and restart it and it doesn't lose any jobs :)
[2023-11-16 09:46:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| neat.  Now I can shut down the cluster and restart it and it doesn't lose any jobs :)
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[2023-11-16 11:29:15] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:schplorf| Consider EndeavourOS if you want the AUR
[2023-11-16 11:29:16] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:schplorf| Consider EndeavourOS if you want the AUR
[2023-11-16 11:31:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| It's not the AUR alone that I'm looking for, I was more into an as-simple-as-possible platform that supports virtualisation and won't fall over. Manjaro is quite lightweight, but NixOS is single-file config
[2023-11-16 11:31:54] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| It's not the AUR alone that I'm looking for, I was more into an as-simple-as-possible platform that supports virtualisation and won't fall over. Manjaro is quite lightweight, but NixOS is single-file config
[2023-11-16 13:06:16] <Lucifer_arma> can anybody point to a reference of which services do what?  I'm wondering how many of the services that are running are actually needed for each computer.
[2023-11-16 13:06:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| can anybody point to a reference of which services do what?  I'm wondering how many of the services that are running are actually needed for each computer.
[2023-11-16 13:06:46] <Lucifer_arma> I realize most of them sleep when they're not being used, so they're no performance hit, but I'm really wanting to tweak all the nodes in my cluster to get as much out of them as I can
[2023-11-16 13:06:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I realize most of them sleep when they're not being used, so they're no performance hit, but I'm really wanting to tweak all the nodes in my cluster to get as much out of them as I can
[2023-11-16 13:51:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you're not overwriting process names, you probably should think about it. That way you can directly point to a specific thread<>executable chain wiht ps
[2023-11-16 13:51:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you're not overwriting process names, you probably should think about it. That way you can directly point to a specific thread<>executable chain wiht ps
[2023-11-16 13:51:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ps -feww | grep <binary>
[2023-11-16 13:51:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ps -feww | grep <binary>
[2023-11-16 13:52:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a link pointer in piddir too
[2023-11-16 13:52:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a link pointer in piddir too
[2023-11-16 13:52:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ls -l /proc/<pid>/exe
[2023-11-16 13:52:54] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ls -l /proc/<pid>/exe
[2023-11-16 13:53:24] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| in fact there's quite a lot in /proc/<pid> that you might find useful
[2023-11-16 13:53:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| in fact there's quite a lot in /proc/<pid> that you might find useful
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[2023-11-17 00:22:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was actually thinking things like "I don't use bluetooth on these things, so I don't need the bluetooth service", and from there, what other services do I really not need?
[2023-11-17 00:23:11] <Lucifer_arma> I was actually thinking things like "I don't use bluetooth on these things, so I don't need the bluetooth service", and from there, what other services do I really not need?
[2023-11-17 00:24:06] <Lucifer_arma> but then you get into the weeds pretty quickly.  I need a network service, but which ones do I really need?  right now, all the nodes are connecting through wifi, so I need some sort of wifi service, but the one provided is aimed at desktop users that might be wondering from one network to another
[2023-11-17 00:24:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but then you get into the weeds pretty quickly.  I need a network service, but which ones do I really need?  right now, all the nodes are connecting through wifi, so I need some sort of wifi service, but the one provided is aimed at desktop users that might be wondering from one network to another
[2023-11-17 00:26:02] <Lucifer_arma> how much HAL do I need?  It's not like the hardware changes, and I'm not hotplugging usb drives or anything.  I could disable usb completely, except it's a raspberry pi and everything goes through usb internally
[2023-11-17 00:26:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| how much HAL do I need?  It's not like the hardware changes, and I'm not hotplugging usb drives or anything.  I could disable usb completely, except it's a raspberry pi and everything goes through usb internally
[2023-11-17 00:26:52] <Lucifer_arma> I'm actually thinking it would be easier to build a custom distribution from scratch for my needs than it would be to pare one down, but I"m not opening that can of worms yet
[2023-11-17 00:26:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm actually thinking it would be easier to build a custom distribution from scratch for my needs than it would be to pare one down, but I"m not opening that can of worms yet
[2023-11-17 00:27:41] <Lucifer_arma> especially when I can improve performance by 33% right now for only about $80
[2023-11-17 00:27:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| especially when I can improve performance by 33% right now for only about $80
[2023-11-17 00:28:27] <Lucifer_arma> hm.  How big does a cluster have to be before it becomes more cost effective to increase performance through software improvements rather than throwing more hardware at it?
[2023-11-17 00:28:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| hm.  How big does a cluster have to be before it becomes more cost effective to increase performance through software improvements rather than throwing more hardware at it?
[2023-11-17 02:39:07] <Lucifer_arma> damn, my database is getting slow again :(
[2023-11-17 02:39:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| damn, my database is getting slow again :(
[2023-11-17 03:54:02] <Lucifer_arma> I am way too excited about my cluster :)
[2023-11-17 03:54:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I am way too excited about my cluster :)
[2023-11-17 04:40:34] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @northernscrub I'm using Manjaro since basically forever, generally happy with it. The AUR stuff is hit and miss, though. Quite often, it simply does not work, or requires tweaking. If not native package is available, which obviously is best, I tend to first look for a Flatpak. Once you have all the basic frameworks installed, the incremental storage bloat is not so bad 🙂
[2023-11-17 04:40:34] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @northernscrub I'm using Manjaro since basically forever, generally happy with it. The AUR stuff is hit and miss, though. Quite often, it simply does not work, or requires tweaking. If not native package is available, which obviously is best, I tend to first look for a Flatpak. Once you have all the basic frameworks installed, the incremental storage bloat is not so bad 🙂
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[2023-11-17 06:36:07] <Lucifer_arma> flask-classy is the missing piece I needed to get the UI for landru going for real
[2023-11-17 06:36:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| flask-classy is the missing piece I needed to get the UI for landru going for real
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[2023-11-17 08:33:22] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma aye, for that I'd look in /proc/<pid>/cwd. That will tell you what the working directory of the thread is, which should give you an indication of what it does.
[2023-11-17 08:33:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma aye, for that I'd look in /proc/<pid>/cwd. That will tell you what the working directory of the thread is, which should give you an indication of what it does.
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[2023-11-17 08:38:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for software vs hardware optimisation, there's no clear answer there. Back when I worked at HP, our array had two component systems, one being a stack of RHEL machines and one being a stack of HP-UX (think AIX but with HP branding) machines. All of those machines were running stripped-down systems that ran the bare essentials, but I don't think we went as far as getting rid of <clipped message>
[2023-11-17 08:38:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for software vs hardware optimisation, there's no clear answer there. Back when I worked at HP, our array had two component systems, one being a stack of RHEL machines and one being a stack of HP-UX (think AIX but with HP branding) machines. All of those machines were running stripped-down systems that ran the bare essentials, but I don't think we went as far as getting rid of <clipped message>
[2023-11-17 08:38:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent|  every little thing. We were more focused on running without unnecessary software packages - so no java, no apache(duh), no extra shells. If BT stuff was provided by Bluez, I suspect that was stripped from the image too. However, getting rid of device monitoring was probably far beyond the scope of necessary
[2023-11-17 08:38:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent|  every little thing. We were more focused on running without unnecessary software packages - so no java, no apache(duh), no extra shells. If BT stuff was provided by Bluez, I suspect that was stripped from the image too. However, getting rid of device monitoring was probably far beyond the scope of necessary
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[2023-11-17 09:05:47] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| may i recommend chaotic-aur aka chaotic-cx? it compiles the most popular aur packages so it gets you covered for computers that are not designed to be build workhorses because of thermals or slowdowns
[2023-11-17 09:05:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| may i recommend chaotic-aur aka chaotic-cx? it compiles the most popular aur packages so it gets you covered for computers that are not designed to be build workhorses because of thermals or slowdowns
[2023-11-17 09:11:11] <Lucifer_arma> It also depends on what your hardware is doing.  A webserver that spends a lot of time idling isn't going to benefit at all from being stripped down (outside of normal security concerns, of course)
[2023-11-17 09:11:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| It also depends on what your hardware is doing.  A webserver that spends a lot of time idling isn't going to benefit at all from being stripped down (outside of normal security concerns, of course)
[2023-11-17 09:11:33] <Lucifer_arma> and for a webserver, idling is a good thing, because it means your site is fast and responsive to users
[2023-11-17 09:11:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and for a webserver, idling is a good thing, because it means your site is fast and responsive to users
[2023-11-17 09:12:25] <Lucifer_arma> but for a HPC, where you're running every core at 100%, then those little processes start to add up
[2023-11-17 09:12:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but for a HPC, where you're running every core at 100%, then those little processes start to add up
[2023-11-17 09:13:28] <Lucifer_arma> again, on one node, or a few nodes, they don't matter.  But at some point, say 100 nodes, then if you remove a service that just monitors USB for anything getting plugged in, you can recover the equivalent of a couple of nodes' worth of performance by removing the service from all of them
[2023-11-17 09:13:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| again, on one node, or a few nodes, they don't matter.  But at some point, say 100 nodes, then if you remove a service that just monitors USB for anything getting plugged in, you can recover the equivalent of a couple of nodes' worth of performance by removing the service from all of them
[2023-11-17 09:13:54] <Lucifer_arma> of course, at 100 nodes, then adding a couple of new ones is only a drop in the bucket
[2023-11-17 09:13:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| of course, at 100 nodes, then adding a couple of new ones is only a drop in the bucket
[2023-11-17 09:15:02] <Lucifer_arma> but without knowing what every service does, I don't even have a starting point for figuring out how much CPU time is being wasted on unnecessary services
[2023-11-17 09:15:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but without knowing what every service does, I don't even have a starting point for figuring out how much CPU time is being wasted on unnecessary services
[2023-11-17 09:15:48] <Lucifer_arma> I guess I'll poke around some later.  I'm not really at a point where it matters, and honestly, I think building up from scratch is a better option anyway.  Ubuntu offers a way to do that, so I don't have to go completely from scratch
[2023-11-17 09:15:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I guess I'll poke around some later.  I'm not really at a point where it matters, and honestly, I think building up from scratch is a better option anyway.  Ubuntu offers a way to do that, so I don't have to go completely from scratch
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[2023-11-17 20:33:30] <Lucifer_arma> wow, my database is soooo overloaded right now.  I *really* need to do some performance improvements to it.  Here I was thinking I might get another raspi, but not if the database is struggling with three nodes already
[2023-11-17 20:33:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| wow, my database is soooo overloaded right now.  I *really* need to do some performance improvements to it.  Here I was thinking I might get another raspi, but not if the database is struggling with three nodes already
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[2023-11-18 02:55:10] <Lucifer_arma> aaaaaaand indexes are awesome!  Apparently the reason my poor database was having a nervous breakdown was because I forgot to add indexes to the two biggest tables
[2023-11-18 02:55:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| aaaaaaand indexes are awesome!  Apparently the reason my poor database was having a nervous breakdown was because I forgot to add indexes to the two biggest tables
[2023-11-18 02:55:14] <Lucifer_arma> um, oops
[2023-11-18 02:55:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| um, oops
[2023-11-18 02:55:29] <Lucifer_arma> now it's gone from average load of 15.x down to 1.x
[2023-11-18 02:55:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now it's gone from average load of 15.x down to 1.x
[2023-11-18 02:56:10] <Lucifer_arma> now, I don't understand how it got all the way up to 15.x, since it's 8 cores, and my understanding is that 8.0 would be all 8 cores at maximum capacity
[2023-11-18 02:56:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now, I don't understand how it got all the way up to 15.x, since it's 8 cores, and my understanding is that 8.0 would be all 8 cores at maximum capacity
[2023-11-18 02:58:20] <Lucifer_arma> but I think I can say the reason it dropped so low is because I also did some performance tuning in config files, so now it's using a shitload of memory more than it was using before
[2023-11-18 02:58:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I think I can say the reason it dropped so low is because I also did some performance tuning in config files, so now it's using a shitload of memory more than it was using before
[2023-11-18 02:59:36] <Lucifer_arma> until I hit the next dumb bottleneck (no doubt another table I forgot to create indexes on), it looks like I should be able to scale up over 20 worker nodes with this database before I have to consider upgrading it or creating a cluster for it
[2023-11-18 02:59:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| until I hit the next dumb bottleneck (no doubt another table I forgot to create indexes on), it looks like I should be able to scale up over 20 worker nodes with this database before I have to consider upgrading it or creating a cluster for it
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[2023-11-18 14:42:30] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| indexes are great, I have close to 100m tron positional logs stored and querying that table started to make my server explode before I indexed it
[2023-11-18 14:42:30] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| indexes are great, I have close to 100m tron positional logs stored and querying that table started to make my server explode before I indexed it
[2023-11-18 15:05:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma You would be surprised how much processing power bulk data transfer requires. It is precisely this reason why indexes exist
[2023-11-18 15:05:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma You would be surprised how much processing power bulk data transfer requires. It is precisely this reason why indexes exist
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[2023-11-18 19:43:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| apparently chromium lacks some chrome features
[2023-11-18 19:43:51] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| apparently chromium lacks some chrome features
[2023-11-18 19:44:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| like memory saver
[2023-11-18 19:44:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| like memory saver
[2023-11-18 19:44:44] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @wwnelg build silicon and it will be faster
[2023-11-18 19:44:44] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @wwnelg build silicon and it will be faster
[2023-11-18 19:45:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| much faster, because rosetta 2 holds back performance
[2023-11-18 19:45:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| much faster, because rosetta 2 holds back performance
[2023-11-18 22:36:20] <Lucifer_arma> Well, in this case, it was the select query that was taking up all the processing power.  It was getting hit with 12 of the exact same queries at the same time (different parameters, same query otherwise)
[2023-11-18 22:36:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Well, in this case, it was the select query that was taking up all the processing power.  It was getting hit with 12 of the exact same queries at the same time (different parameters, same query otherwise)
[2023-11-18 22:36:33] <Lucifer_arma> and without the index, it had to do a whole table scan.
[2023-11-18 22:36:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and without the index, it had to do a whole table scan.
[2023-11-18 22:36:59] <Lucifer_arma> I had to create three indexes for each of the two tables, one for symbol, interval, and date, where interval is the period in the moving average window
[2023-11-18 22:36:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I had to create three indexes for each of the two tables, one for symbol, interval, and date, where interval is the period in the moving average window
[2023-11-18 22:37:31] <Lucifer_arma> I thought I had already added indexes to these two tables.  That's why I was surprised, and a bit perturbed, to be honest.
[2023-11-18 22:37:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I thought I had already added indexes to these two tables.  That's why I was surprised, and a bit perturbed, to be honest.
[2023-11-18 22:37:56] <Lucifer_arma> I added them partway through yesterday's run, about 6 hours into it.  I'm going to start an unnecessary run today just to see how long it takes.
[2023-11-18 22:37:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I added them partway through yesterday's run, about 6 hours into it.  I'm going to start an unnecessary run today just to see how long it takes.
[2023-11-18 22:39:23] <Lucifer_arma> started
[2023-11-18 22:39:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| started
[2023-11-18 22:39:33] <Lucifer_arma> (that message is just so I can have a timestamp for when I started it :)  )
[2023-11-18 22:39:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (that message is just so I can have a timestamp for when I started it :)  )
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[2023-11-18 23:18:17] <Lucifer_arma> trying again
[2023-11-18 23:18:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| trying again
[2023-11-18 23:38:46] <Lucifer_arma> ok, trying AGAIN
[2023-11-18 23:38:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, trying AGAIN
[2023-11-18 23:39:23] <Lucifer_arma> note to self: stockanalyst2 can't install its own dependencies that are needed before the "install-dependencies" function gets called
[2023-11-18 23:39:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| note to self: stockanalyst2 can't install its own dependencies that are needed before the "install-dependencies" function gets called

Searching from 2023-11-19 00:00:00 to 2023-11-19 23:59:59.999999.
Query completed in 0.48 seconds
[2023-11-19 01:02:20] <Lucifer_arma> ok, 23:58 - 22:38 = 1 hour 20 minutes
[2023-11-19 01:02:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, 23:58 - 22:38 = 1 hour 20 minutes
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[2023-11-19 02:00:39] <Lucifer_arma> no, but if you find one, I might be interested in it
[2023-11-19 02:00:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, but if you find one, I might be interested in it
[2023-11-19 02:01:19] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I just found Zint in my repo. So many options... Works good though.
[2023-11-19 02:01:19] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I just found Zint in my repo. So many options... Works good though.
[2023-11-19 02:01:39] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://www.zint.org.uk
[2023-11-19 02:01:40] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://www.zint.org.uk
[2023-11-19 02:05:18] <Lucifer_arma> now I just need to remember what I needed a QR for
[2023-11-19 02:05:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now I just need to remember what I needed a QR for
[2023-11-19 02:05:43] <Lucifer_arma> can a raspberry pi 3 serve as a file server for a large number of machines?  Like 20+?
[2023-11-19 02:05:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| can a raspberry pi 3 serve as a file server for a large number of machines?  Like 20+?
[2023-11-19 02:06:10] <Lucifer_arma> nfs, not samba
[2023-11-19 02:06:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| nfs, not samba
[2023-11-19 02:07:30] <Lucifer_arma> I may be about to eliminate the reason I need a file server, though.  Hrm.
[2023-11-19 02:07:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I may be about to eliminate the reason I need a file server, though.  Hrm.
[2023-11-19 02:08:22] <Lucifer_arma> um, those 20 machines will ultimately be PXE booting with their OSes stored on the fileserver
[2023-11-19 02:08:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| um, those 20 machines will ultimately be PXE booting with their OSes stored on the fileserver
[2023-11-19 02:08:29] <Lucifer_arma> so, can a raspberry pi 3 handle that kind of load?
[2023-11-19 02:08:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, can a raspberry pi 3 handle that kind of load?
[2023-11-19 02:09:03] <Lucifer_arma> after boot, it would serve /etc, /home, and another mountpoint that's shared files for the whole cluster
[2023-11-19 02:09:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| after boot, it would serve /etc, /home, and another mountpoint that's shared files for the whole cluster
[2023-11-19 02:16:27] <Lucifer_arma> damn, probably /var, too
[2023-11-19 02:16:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| damn, probably /var, too
[2023-11-19 02:17:01] <Lucifer_arma> it would serve everything a worker needs so it doesn't have to have an sdcard anymore, so bring down the cost of adding a new node to the cluster
[2023-11-19 02:17:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it would serve everything a worker needs so it doesn't have to have an sdcard anymore, so bring down the cost of adding a new node to the cluster
[2023-11-19 02:17:58] <Lucifer_arma> it's either I buy that (plus the SSD to support it), or I add another node and look at making the database server, which is already also running the fileserver, serve all those directories and go to pxe boot anyway
[2023-11-19 02:17:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's either I buy that (plus the SSD to support it), or I add another node and look at making the database server, which is already also running the fileserver, serve all those directories and go to pxe boot anyway
[2023-11-19 02:30:44] <Lucifer_arma> I remember what I wanted to do with a QR code.  I wanted to put a venmo qr code on my business cards.  :)
[2023-11-19 02:30:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I remember what I wanted to do with a QR code.  I wanted to put a venmo qr code on my business cards.  :)
[2023-11-19 03:42:07] <Lucifer_arma> ok, nvm the netboot for now.  Apparently it only works from the wired ethernet, and I'm still a ways off from that.  So I guess if I'm going to add another node, I'm going to have to buy the pi, a power supply, and an sdcard
[2023-11-19 03:42:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, nvm the netboot for now.  Apparently it only works from the wired ethernet, and I'm still a ways off from that.  So I guess if I'm going to add another node, I'm going to have to buy the pi, a power supply, and an sdcard
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[2023-11-19 09:50:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| You can theoretically configure netboot over wifi by using a boot shell or a PXE rom, IPXE is a possible solution. That said, network booting over wifi is fraught with issues regardless of the device you're booting, and it really isn't something that gets any more attention than "can this be done at all?". 
[2023-11-19 09:50:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| You can theoretically configure netboot over wifi by using a boot shell or a PXE rom, IPXE is a possible solution. That said, network booting over wifi is fraught with issues regardless of the device you're booting, and it really isn't something that gets any more attention than "can this be done at all?". 
[2023-11-19 09:50:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you have more than two or three Pis as it is, I might consider getting a chassis for them. There are some out there that will split a single ehternet hookup across all racked Pi modules, and even some that will share a simple nfs share or even a hardware share between them. Something to think about for the future.
[2023-11-19 09:50:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you have more than two or three Pis as it is, I might consider getting a chassis for them. There are some out there that will split a single ehternet hookup across all racked Pi modules, and even some that will share a simple nfs share or even a hardware share between them. Something to think about for the future.
[2023-11-19 10:25:29] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:anjo| i tested nelgs new mac client on my m1 and i got 900 fps with no input delay
[2023-11-19 10:25:29] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:anjo| i tested nelgs new mac client on my m1 and i got 900 fps with no input delay
[2023-11-19 10:26:09] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:anjo| @wwnelg 👨‍❤️‍💋‍👨
[2023-11-19 10:26:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:anjo| @wwnelg 👨‍❤️‍💋‍👨
[2023-11-19 11:18:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| gj nelg you're a hero
[2023-11-19 11:18:54] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| gj nelg you're a hero
[2023-11-19 12:32:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah nice, except its running over rosetta 2 unless its universal
[2023-11-19 12:32:19] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah nice, except its running over rosetta 2 unless its universal
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[2023-11-19 22:40:38] <Lucifer_arma> @delinquent: I've priced chassis's, and they're not terrible.  I also need to see if there's a chassis available for the orange pi 5.
[2023-11-19 22:40:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @delinquent: I've priced chassis's, and they're not terrible.  I also need to see if there's a chassis available for the orange pi 5.
[2023-11-19 22:41:16] <Lucifer_arma> Right now, I've got one of those cluster cases for the pi's.  It was $16, so it's pretty basic, but it does consolidate them into one unit.  There's room for one more on the unit, and then after that I'll need another case to add nodes
[2023-11-19 22:41:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Right now, I've got one of those cluster cases for the pi's.  It was $16, so it's pretty basic, but it does consolidate them into one unit.  There's room for one more on the unit, and then after that I'll need another case to add nodes
[2023-11-19 22:41:40] <Lucifer_arma> but I have three stand-alone cases, so I'll be able to keep adding pi's until I reach 7 before I *have* to buy a new case
[2023-11-19 22:41:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I have three stand-alone cases, so I'll be able to keep adding pi's until I reach 7 before I *have* to buy a new case
[2023-11-19 22:41:59] <Lucifer_arma> we'll where I'm at at that point, because a chassis on a rack is the best place to end up as the cluster grows
[2023-11-19 22:42:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we'll where I'm at at that point, because a chassis on a rack is the best place to end up as the cluster grows
[2023-11-19 22:43:23] <Lucifer_arma> I have a 5 port ethernet switch that I can put the four pi's on (when I get the fourth) and then hook up to the router, but I don't have any cables.  I've been having trouble sourcing a roll of cat6 because I've only been shopping it on amazon.  I don't want to buy individual cables because I need to customize their lengths to fit the layout that I'll ultimately design
[2023-11-19 22:43:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I have a 5 port ethernet switch that I can put the four pi's on (when I get the fourth) and then hook up to the router, but I don't have any cables.  I've been having trouble sourcing a roll of cat6 because I've only been shopping it on amazon.  I don't want to buy individual cables because I need to customize their lengths to fit the layout that I'll ultimately design
[2023-11-19 22:44:00] <Lucifer_arma> *but* I don't want to focus too much on *that* until I have a head unit that'll serve as a gateway for the cluster, because I want to keep the cluster in my bedroom
[2023-11-19 22:44:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| *but* I don't want to focus too much on *that* until I have a head unit that'll serve as a gateway for the cluster, because I want to keep the cluster in my bedroom
[2023-11-19 22:44:36] <Lucifer_arma> so maybe the next raspberry pi shouldn't be a node, but instead should be that head unit.  I was really thinking orange pi for that, though, but a raspberry pi 3 could probably do *that* job just fine
[2023-11-19 22:44:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so maybe the next raspberry pi shouldn't be a node, but instead should be that head unit.  I was really thinking orange pi for that, though, but a raspberry pi 3 could probably do *that* job just fine
[2023-11-19 22:44:51] <Lucifer_arma> especially if it can also serve up the filesystems to the nodes
[2023-11-19 22:44:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| especially if it can also serve up the filesystems to the nodes
[2023-11-19 22:45:53] <Lucifer_arma> but that's a bunch of configuration I don't want to deal with right now.  I'm going to finish getting all the database maintenance chores that I still need to have in the cluster and then focus on the UI and simulation again, since I'll finally have a solid foundation upon which to build these things
[2023-11-19 22:45:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but that's a bunch of configuration I don't want to deal with right now.  I'm going to finish getting all the database maintenance chores that I still need to have in the cluster and then focus on the UI and simulation again, since I'll finally have a solid foundation upon which to build these things

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[2023-11-20 08:56:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Don't buy ethernet cable on Amazon! I made that mistake once, the cable  that arrived was so shoddy that I did a visa refund on it. 
[2023-11-20 08:56:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Don't buy ethernet cable on Amazon! I made that mistake once, the cable  that arrived was so shoddy that I did a visa refund on it. 
[2023-11-20 08:56:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lowes and Home Depot should carry reels of cable that cna be snipped to a length for you to terminate yourself.
[2023-11-20 08:56:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lowes and Home Depot should carry reels of cable that cna be snipped to a length for you to terminate yourself.
[2023-11-20 09:51:28] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:anjo| That last sentence out of context is wild, deli
[2023-11-20 09:51:29] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:anjo| That last sentence out of context is wild, deli
[2023-11-20 10:24:21] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| https://tenor.com/view/sterling-archer-sterling-malory-archer-archer-phrasing-hey-gif-16635196
[2023-11-20 10:24:21] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| https://tenor.com/view/sterling-archer-sterling-malory-archer-archer-phrasing-hey-gif-16635196
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[2023-11-20 22:39:40] <Lucifer_arma> a comma could have prevented a suicide in that sentence
[2023-11-20 22:39:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| a comma could have prevented a suicide in that sentence
[2023-11-20 22:39:53] <Lucifer_arma> I keep saying that commas save lives
[2023-11-20 22:39:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I keep saying that commas save lives

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[2023-11-21 09:13:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Fuck, it took me an entire day to get that
[2023-11-21 09:13:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Fuck, it took me an entire day to get that
[2023-11-21 12:20:27] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:raph.2| Where would you put the comma? 🤔
[2023-11-21 12:20:28] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:raph.2| Where would you put the comma? 🤔
[2023-11-21 13:00:02] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| I'd vote for after 'terminate', yes. The only place to break that unfortunate connection up 🙂
[2023-11-21 13:00:02] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| I'd vote for after 'terminate', yes. The only place to break that unfortunate connection up 🙂
[2023-11-21 15:02:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't think it really needs additional punctuation. The adjective is the subject of the noun, kronk is just pulling my tail I think
[2023-11-21 15:02:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't think it really needs additional punctuation. The adjective is the subject of the noun, kronk is just pulling my tail I think
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[2023-11-21 16:58:26] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| A true masterpiece of oddity. Man makes boat from Jeff Bezos' face, plays in large concert wearing orc mask, has hair transplanted from backside to head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGhcSupkNs8
[2023-11-21 16:58:26] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| A true masterpiece of oddity. Man makes boat from Jeff Bezos' face, plays in large concert wearing orc mask, has hair transplanted from backside to head. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGhcSupkNs8
[2023-11-21 17:20:04] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| I think it would be better if you added an adverb like 'it' after terminate
[2023-11-21 17:20:04] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| I think it would be better if you added an adverb like 'it' after terminate
[2023-11-21 17:31:00] <Lucifer_arma_> "it" is a pronoun
[2023-11-21 17:31:00] <armagetronbridge> 06irc:Lucifer_arma_| "it" is a pronoun
[2023-11-21 17:31:17] <Lucifer_arma_> specifically, it's the genderless third person pronoun
[2023-11-21 17:31:18] <armagetronbridge> 06irc:Lucifer_arma_| specifically, it's the genderless third person pronoun
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[2023-11-21 19:44:28] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:tannermon11| right thats what I meant ^_^
[2023-11-21 19:44:28] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:tannermon11| right thats what I meant ^_^
[2023-11-21 20:12:32] <Lucifer_arma_> "Lucifer_arma" had changed his name to "Lucfer_pedantic"
[2023-11-21 20:12:33] <armagetronbridge> 06irc:Lucifer_arma_| "Lucifer_arma" had changed his name to "Lucfer_pedantic"
[2023-11-21 20:12:40] -!- Lucifer_arma_ changed nick to Lucifer_arma

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[2023-11-22 16:02:53] <armagetron-bridge> 10discord:ℜ𝔢𝔱𝔯𝔬:Player51| http://web.archive.org/web/20100730015107/http://crazy-tronners.com/serverbrowser.php <= Servers Online: 191, Players Online: 95. Good Old Times. 🙂
[2023-11-22 16:02:53] <armagetronbridge> 10discord:ℜ𝔢𝔱𝔯𝔬:Player51| http://web.archive.org/web/20100730015107/http://crazy-tronners.com/serverbrowser.php <= Servers Online: 191, Players Online: 95. Good Old Times. 🙂
[2023-11-22 16:39:54] <armagetronbridge> 10discord:justkoala| https://web.archive.org/web/20080102224640/http://crazy-tronners.com:80/serverbrowser.php 3 1/2 active wildcat servers 🥲  also found myself playing for one of the first times
[2023-11-22 16:39:55] <armagetron-bridge> 10discord:justkoala| https://web.archive.org/web/20080102224640/http://crazy-tronners.com:80/serverbrowser.php 3 1/2 active wildcat servers 🥲  also found myself playing for one of the first times
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[2023-11-22 21:29:35] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| another server list https://web.archive.org/web/20061010110219/http://beta.armagetronad.net:80/serverlist.php
[2023-11-22 21:29:36] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| another server list https://web.archive.org/web/20061010110219/http://beta.armagetronad.net:80/serverlist.php
[2023-11-22 21:29:38] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i see P4!
[2023-11-22 21:29:39] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i see P4!
[2023-11-22 23:39:52] <Lucifer_arma> anybody see Your_mom?
[2023-11-22 23:39:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anybody see Your_mom?
[2023-11-22 23:40:26] <Lucifer_arma> so, asterisks save directories!  I made a cronjob that did rm -Rf /cluster/jobs, wanting to empty the directory, but stupid me didn't proofread my command
[2023-11-22 23:40:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, asterisks save directories!  I made a cronjob that did rm -Rf /cluster/jobs, wanting to empty the directory, but stupid me didn't proofread my command
[2023-11-22 23:40:37] <Lucifer_arma> so at 9am promptly, my cluster broke when the directory it needed to run wasn't there
[2023-11-22 23:40:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so at 9am promptly, my cluster broke when the directory it needed to run wasn't there
[2023-11-22 23:41:12] <Lucifer_arma> (that's the directory shared by all the nodes, and, well, every computer in the cluster)
[2023-11-22 23:41:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (that's the directory shared by all the nodes, and, well, every computer in the cluster)

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[2023-11-23 00:28:24] <Lucifer_arma> man, I used to be much better at laying out a webpage.  :/  I hate being out of practice on crap.
[2023-11-23 00:28:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| man, I used to be much better at laying out a webpage.  :/  I hate being out of practice on crap.
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[2023-11-23 04:21:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I've never been great at design. Meridian has gone through quite a number of design iterations already
[2023-11-23 04:21:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I've never been great at design. Meridian has gone through quite a number of design iterations already
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[2023-11-23 05:34:37] <Lucifer_arma> I used to be pretty good, but now my designs look like they're late '00s/10s.  So out of date.
[2023-11-23 05:34:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I used to be pretty good, but now my designs look like they're late '00s/10s.  So out of date.
[2023-11-23 05:35:05] <Lucifer_arma> doesn't help that the standards have moved quite a bit, so my instincts are all off a bit, too.
[2023-11-23 05:35:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| doesn't help that the standards have moved quite a bit, so my instincts are all off a bit, too.
[2023-11-23 07:12:37] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:ZDHades| I just use bootstrap snips for *everything* or just whole ass templates if I'm lazy. I can't do front end design at all 😭
[2023-11-23 07:12:37] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:ZDHades| I just use bootstrap snips for *everything* or just whole ass templates if I'm lazy. I can't do front end design at all 😭
[2023-11-23 07:37:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I hate bootstrap with a passion. In fact, I hate the vast majority of kit-esque platforms like that. They're *so* heavy it's ridiculous. I much prefer to start from scratch, a single placement doesn't need thirty dividers to put it in place
[2023-11-23 07:37:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I hate bootstrap with a passion. In fact, I hate the vast majority of kit-esque platforms like that. They're *so* heavy it's ridiculous. I much prefer to start from scratch, a single placement doesn't need thirty dividers to put it in place
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[2023-11-23 16:25:21] <Lucifer_arma> I put in a fair amount of YouMightNeedThis when I lay something out, just so I can focus on the css
[2023-11-23 16:25:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I put in a fair amount of YouMightNeedThis when I lay something out, just so I can focus on the css
[2023-11-23 16:25:34] <Lucifer_arma> of course, that leads to eventual trimming of cruft, which I'm doing right now :/
[2023-11-23 16:25:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| of course, that leads to eventual trimming of cruft, which I'm doing right now :/
[2023-11-23 16:29:00] <Lucifer_arma> but there was a time where I could pick out a color code pretty easily and know what color I was getting.  I'm back to asking "How will it look if I add bd blue?"
[2023-11-23 16:29:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but there was a time where I could pick out a color code pretty easily and know what color I was getting.  I'm back to asking "How will it look if I add bd blue?"
[2023-11-23 16:32:09] <Lucifer_arma> also, at some point the industry did two things that I wasn't ready for this time.  It moved to salting and hashing passwords (previously we just hashed them), and the whole web has gone https.
[2023-11-23 16:32:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, at some point the industry did two things that I wasn't ready for this time.  It moved to salting and hashing passwords (previously we just hashed them), and the whole web has gone https.
[2023-11-23 16:32:25] <Lucifer_arma> I have a cert, but I've never successfully configured apache to use one.
[2023-11-23 16:32:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I have a cert, but I've never successfully configured apache to use one.
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[2023-11-23 16:54:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ah, there's a quick and easy solution for that, and it doesn't involve buying certs. It's called "LetsEncrypt", and it comes with a little bot that will both configure a certificate for you, and set up a cron job to automatically renew it. 
[2023-11-23 16:54:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ah, there's a quick and easy solution for that, and it doesn't involve buying certs. It's called "LetsEncrypt", and it comes with a little bot that will both configure a certificate for you, and set up a cron job to automatically renew it. 
[2023-11-23 16:54:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| `sudo apt install certbot`
[2023-11-23 16:54:21] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| `sudo apt install certbot`
[2023-11-23 16:54:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://letsencrypt.org/
[2023-11-23 16:54:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://letsencrypt.org/
[2023-11-23 16:54:43] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://certbot.eff.org/
[2023-11-23 16:54:43] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://certbot.eff.org/
[2023-11-23 16:55:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for salting and hashing, you're almost off the docks with that one too - a lot of platfomrs are moving to 2fa form factors, although many are implementing it incorrectly by using SMS, which is *not* secure
[2023-11-23 16:55:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for salting and hashing, you're almost off the docks with that one too - a lot of platfomrs are moving to 2fa form factors, although many are implementing it incorrectly by using SMS, which is *not* secure
[2023-11-23 16:56:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| it'll be fine for a while yet, though. I don't see the web going completely passwordless for at least a decade
[2023-11-23 16:56:03] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| it'll be fine for a while yet, though. I don't see the web going completely passwordless for at least a decade
[2023-11-23 17:00:32] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for salting specifically, I use a method I devised myself. I generate a dictionary for each project that randomises character associations, a-zA-Z0-9. I then use that dictionary to randomly place my salt, which ensures that even if there *is* a breach, most of the platform users will have a little extra time to get their ducks in a row and change passwords, because even if the <clipped message>
[2023-11-23 17:00:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for salting specifically, I use a method I devised myself. I generate a dictionary for each project that randomises character associations, a-zA-Z0-9. I then use that dictionary to randomly place my salt, which ensures that even if there *is* a breach, most of the platform users will have a little extra time to get their ducks in a row and change passwords, because even if the <clipped message>
[2023-11-23 17:00:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent|  attacker figures out where the salt is (and how long it is), they've only unencrypted one in approximately sixty-two passwords. It doesn't guarantee anything, really, just makes life harder for any malicious actor.
[2023-11-23 17:00:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent|  attacker figures out where the salt is (and how long it is), they've only unencrypted one in approximately sixty-two passwords. It doesn't guarantee anything, really, just makes life harder for any malicious actor.
[2023-11-23 17:24:28] <Lucifer_arma> I tried to use letsencrypt awhile back, but failed.  I don't remember why.  But it doesn't matter.  I get a cert with my domain registration, so I'm going to use that.
[2023-11-23 17:24:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I tried to use letsencrypt awhile back, but failed.  I don't remember why.  But it doesn't matter.  I get a cert with my domain registration, so I'm going to use that.
[2023-11-23 17:25:12] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| It's worth figuring certbot out, once its done you never have to touch it again
[2023-11-23 17:25:12] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| It's worth figuring certbot out, once its done you never have to touch it again
[2023-11-23 17:25:48] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not doing two form authentication yet
[2023-11-23 17:25:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not doing two form authentication yet
[2023-11-23 17:26:29] <Lucifer_arma> that requires some infrastructure I don't have ;)
[2023-11-23 17:26:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that requires some infrastructure I don't have ;)
[2023-11-23 17:27:20] <Lucifer_arma> I don't need a lot of security quite yet.  Landru doesn't have access to much information, and while you could hurt someone with what it does have access to, even that pain is limited.
[2023-11-23 17:27:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't need a lot of security quite yet.  Landru doesn't have access to much information, and while you could hurt someone with what it does have access to, even that pain is limited.
[2023-11-23 17:27:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| What are you writing all this in?
[2023-11-23 17:27:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| What are you writing all this in?
[2023-11-23 17:27:54] <Lucifer_arma> https + salted passwords should be sufficient for the foreseeable future
[2023-11-23 17:27:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https + salted passwords should be sufficient for the foreseeable future
[2023-11-23 17:28:00] <Lucifer_arma> python
[2023-11-23 17:28:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| python
[2023-11-23 17:28:08] <Lucifer_arma> I'm using flask for the web app framework
[2023-11-23 17:28:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm using flask for the web app framework
[2023-11-23 17:28:44] <Lucifer_arma> following guides around the internet, I put the salt in the database right next to the password.  :)  I'm using the python secrets module to generate the salt
[2023-11-23 17:28:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| following guides around the internet, I put the salt in the database right next to the password.  :)  I'm using the python secrets module to generate the salt
[2023-11-23 17:29:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya, usually salt goes at the start, and you can also add pepper at the end
[2023-11-23 17:29:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Ya, usually salt goes at the start, and you can also add pepper at the end
[2023-11-23 17:29:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| that's not me being facetious, its actually called pepper
[2023-11-23 17:29:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| that's not me being facetious, its actually called pepper
[2023-11-23 17:29:49] <Lucifer_arma> I don't remember which order I did it in, I'm just saying that the salt is in the table right next to username and password and email address (you can use your email address as a username, too)
[2023-11-23 17:29:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't remember which order I did it in, I'm just saying that the salt is in the table right next to username and password and email address (you can use your email address as a username, too)
[2023-11-23 17:30:21] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for 2fa, once you get around to it, it's a couple plugins to build compatibility with a HTOTP authenticator, and there is a nice FOSS autheticator app called Aegis
[2023-11-23 17:30:21] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for 2fa, once you get around to it, it's a couple plugins to build compatibility with a HTOTP authenticator, and there is a nice FOSS autheticator app called Aegis
[2023-11-23 17:30:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.section.io/engineering-education/implementing-totp-2fa-using-flask/
[2023-11-23 17:30:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.section.io/engineering-education/implementing-totp-2fa-using-flask/
[2023-11-23 17:31:11] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not convinced it's that much better, mostly because of how it's used.  If an attacker has my phone, they're in already
[2023-11-23 17:31:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not convinced it's that much better, mostly because of how it's used.  If an attacker has my phone, they're in already
[2023-11-23 17:31:26] <Lucifer_arma> I'm still the weakest point in this system, after all
[2023-11-23 17:31:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm still the weakest point in this system, after all
[2023-11-23 17:32:03] <Lucifer_arma> my phone is configured to use fingerprints for the password manager, so there's that, at least
[2023-11-23 17:32:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| my phone is configured to use fingerprints for the password manager, so there's that, at least
[2023-11-23 17:33:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm inclined to agree with you, in all honesty. Unfortunately, I lack the necessary funds to purchase whatever the modern equivalent of an RSA key is for every service on which I'm forced to use 2fa, and I flatly refuse to use biometrics.
[2023-11-23 17:33:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm inclined to agree with you, in all honesty. Unfortunately, I lack the necessary funds to purchase whatever the modern equivalent of an RSA key is for every service on which I'm forced to use 2fa, and I flatly refuse to use biometrics.
[2023-11-23 17:34:25] <Lucifer_arma> well, the main advantage with 2fa authentication is that an attacker has to have access to another service that I use.  But if they've already got my password, and if I were one of those people who uses the same password for everything, then they've got access to another service I use already
[2023-11-23 17:34:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, the main advantage with 2fa authentication is that an attacker has to have access to another service that I use.  But if they've already got my password, and if I were one of those people who uses the same password for everything, then they've got access to another service I use already
[2023-11-23 17:35:07] <Lucifer_arma> SMS may not be secure by itself, but if I'm using SMS for the second factor, then an attacker would need physical access to my phone or to have also hacked the SMS service somewhere along the lines
[2023-11-23 17:35:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| SMS may not be secure by itself, but if I'm using SMS for the second factor, then an attacker would need physical access to my phone or to have also hacked the SMS service somewhere along the lines
[2023-11-23 17:35:47] <Lucifer_arma> but if I send that second factor to email, and they've already got my email address and password, then it's no better than old fashioned password authentication
[2023-11-23 17:35:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but if I send that second factor to email, and they've already got my email address and password, then it's no better than old fashioned password authentication
[2023-11-23 17:36:27] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's where keepass comes in handy. I used to use a mathematical formulae to do a password in my head, but nowadays I don't have the brain capacity to work it out every time. Keepass generates a highly complex twentysomething-char password that is at least somewhat difficult to decrypt
[2023-11-23 17:36:27] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's where keepass comes in handy. I used to use a mathematical formulae to do a password in my head, but nowadays I don't have the brain capacity to work it out every time. Keepass generates a highly complex twentysomething-char password that is at least somewhat difficult to decrypt
[2023-11-23 17:36:41] <Lucifer_arma> the main reason I don't like biometrics is because there's no backup plan.  If I get into a wreck, assuming I can still text and stuff, I can text someone usernames and passwords so they can keep my services runnign while I'm incapacitated
[2023-11-23 17:36:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the main reason I don't like biometrics is because there's no backup plan.  If I get into a wreck, assuming I can still text and stuff, I can text someone usernames and passwords so they can keep my services runnign while I'm incapacitated
[2023-11-23 17:36:47] <Lucifer_arma> biometrics makes that impossible
[2023-11-23 17:36:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| biometrics makes that impossible
[2023-11-23 17:37:31] <Lucifer_arma> I can make good passwords, I just can't remember them.  We need services to stop arbitrarily requiring so-called strong passwords and let us use passwords of any length.
[2023-11-23 17:37:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can make good passwords, I just can't remember them.  We need services to stop arbitrarily requiring so-called strong passwords and let us use passwords of any length.
[2023-11-23 17:38:02] <Lucifer_arma> Instead of making a dumbass policy of having one special character, two uppercase letters, three numbers, etc, they should just test the password on the server side and see how easy it is to crack
[2023-11-23 17:38:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Instead of making a dumbass policy of having one special character, two uppercase letters, three numbers, etc, they should just test the password on the server side and see how easy it is to crack
[2023-11-23 17:38:41] <Lucifer_arma> and then let us figure out what kind of passwords we want.  Then I could use the Four Random Words password plan that creates a nearly uncrackable password that I can remember
[2023-11-23 17:38:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and then let us figure out what kind of passwords we want.  Then I could use the Four Random Words password plan that creates a nearly uncrackable password that I can remember
[2023-11-23 17:39:04] <Lucifer_arma> add a fifth word to those four random words that includes the service name, and then I can also use different passwords for every service
[2023-11-23 17:39:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| add a fifth word to those four random words that includes the service name, and then I can also use different passwords for every service
[2023-11-23 17:39:32] <Lucifer_arma> but NOOOOOOOOO.  I have to write stupid shit like P4s$w@rd, which a bot can fucking figure out
[2023-11-23 17:39:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but NOOOOOOOOO.  I have to write stupid shit like P4s$w@rd, which a bot can fucking figure out
[2023-11-23 17:39:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's also why I use keepass - its a password manager, but one that is compeltely offline
[2023-11-23 17:39:49] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's also why I use keepass - its a password manager, but one that is compeltely offline
[2023-11-23 17:40:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| so I don't have to remember anything, except the password that I use for the application
[2023-11-23 17:40:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| so I don't have to remember anything, except the password that I use for the application
[2023-11-23 17:40:15] <Lucifer_arma> oh yeah, and then there's the password for the password manager
[2023-11-23 17:40:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh yeah, and then there's the password for the password manager
[2023-11-23 17:40:22] <Lucifer_arma> seriously, this is getting ridiculous
[2023-11-23 17:40:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| seriously, this is getting ridiculous
[2023-11-23 17:40:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, there's more than just a password, at least in my case
[2023-11-23 17:40:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, there's more than just a password, at least in my case
[2023-11-23 17:40:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| but I shan't reveal that :D
[2023-11-23 17:40:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| but I shan't reveal that :D
[2023-11-23 17:40:54] <Lucifer_arma> but what if you have to use a particular service from a machine that doesn't have your password manager?
[2023-11-23 17:40:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but what if you have to use a particular service from a machine that doesn't have your password manager?
[2023-11-23 17:41:22] <Lucifer_arma> I need my email accessible from public computers so if I lose my phone, I can still reach all the other services because I can reset passwords through email
[2023-11-23 17:41:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I need my email accessible from public computers so if I lose my phone, I can still reach all the other services because I can reset passwords through email
[2023-11-23 17:41:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I get on my vpn into my home network, and retrieve the manager DB from my nas
[2023-11-23 17:41:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I get on my vpn into my home network, and retrieve the manager DB from my nas
[2023-11-23 17:42:01] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| but tbf I don't really do anything complicated away from home so
[2023-11-23 17:42:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| but tbf I don't really do anything complicated away from home so
[2023-11-23 17:42:25] <Lucifer_arma> well, I live in an area that's pretty much guaranteed to get hit by a hurricane at some point, or some other disaster, so I can't rely on my home network being available
[2023-11-23 17:42:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, I live in an area that's pretty much guaranteed to get hit by a hurricane at some point, or some other disaster, so I can't rely on my home network being available
[2023-11-23 17:42:48] <Lucifer_arma> true, it's been several decades since we last had a hurricane, although Harvey came pretty damn close
[2023-11-23 17:42:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| true, it's been several decades since we last had a hurricane, although Harvey came pretty damn close
[2023-11-23 17:42:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Encrypted cloud storage perhaps?
[2023-11-23 17:42:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Encrypted cloud storage perhaps?
[2023-11-23 17:43:10] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Or a spare consumer nas at your parents house?
[2023-11-23 17:43:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Or a spare consumer nas at your parents house?
[2023-11-23 17:43:18] <Lucifer_arma> and whose cloud storage am I going to use?  The same nitwits that gave me 2fa in the first place?
[2023-11-23 17:43:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and whose cloud storage am I going to use?  The same nitwits that gave me 2fa in the first place?
[2023-11-23 17:43:30] <Lucifer_arma> My dad's dead, my mom's a cunt, so that's not an option
[2023-11-23 17:43:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| My dad's dead, my mom's a cunt, so that's not an option
[2023-11-23 17:44:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| heh, you're not wrong. I'm lucky enough to have access to a small DC, so if the worst comes to the worst, I hop on a train and grab all my shit from a crash cart
[2023-11-23 17:44:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| heh, you're not wrong. I'm lucky enough to have access to a small DC, so if the worst comes to the worst, I hop on a train and grab all my shit from a crash cart
[2023-11-23 17:44:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| and then there's the cold storage that gets a dailky feed-in
[2023-11-23 17:44:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| and then there's the cold storage that gets a dailky feed-in
[2023-11-23 17:45:21] <Lucifer_arma> it also isn't a personal problem.  You have to multiply this issue by the population of the planet, because everyone has this need to some extent
[2023-11-23 17:45:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it also isn't a personal problem.  You have to multiply this issue by the population of the planet, because everyone has this need to some extent
[2023-11-23 17:45:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| although I really need to fix the way that works, I have a stock that I made when I got the service, and everything else is diffs. I should really be doing a stock every week and then diffs every day
[2023-11-23 17:45:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| although I really need to fix the way that works, I have a stock that I made when I got the service, and everything else is diffs. I should really be doing a stock every week and then diffs every day
[2023-11-23 17:45:55] <Lucifer_arma> and the solution is to change how we handle password policy in the first place.  We need to switch from a policy that dictates what your password can be to a policy that tests what password you have, instead.
[2023-11-23 17:45:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and the solution is to change how we handle password policy in the first place.  We need to switch from a policy that dictates what your password can be to a policy that tests what password you have, instead.
[2023-11-23 17:46:54] <Lucifer_arma> or maybe we can scale armathentication up a bit to a general authentication service, but that would just add another authentication service onto the pile of poorly used services that already exists
[2023-11-23 17:46:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| or maybe we can scale armathentication up a bit to a general authentication service, but that would just add another authentication service onto the pile of poorly used services that already exists
[2023-11-23 17:47:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| The internet in general is a tower of incomplete patches
[2023-11-23 17:47:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| The internet in general is a tower of incomplete patches
[2023-11-23 17:47:43] <Lucifer_arma> yes, and in a lot of areas, that's a strength
[2023-11-23 17:47:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yes, and in a lot of areas, that's a strength
[2023-11-23 17:48:41] <Lucifer_arma> so you figured out how to crack <this game>'s ingame store, or <this online store>'s credit card database
[2023-11-23 17:48:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so you figured out how to crack <this game>'s ingame store, or <this online store>'s credit card database
[2023-11-23 17:49:01] <Lucifer_arma> but it's just the one, and since everybody does things differently enough, you might compromise an additional service or two, but that's it
[2023-11-23 17:49:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but it's just the one, and since everybody does things differently enough, you might compromise an additional service or two, but that's it
[2023-11-23 17:49:36] <Lucifer_arma> last big T-Mobile hack, I didn't have to do anything, because I was using what was an outdated password for me on T-Mobile.  None of my other accounts could get touched.  :)
[2023-11-23 17:49:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| last big T-Mobile hack, I didn't have to do anything, because I was using what was an outdated password for me on T-Mobile.  None of my other accounts could get touched.  :)
[2023-11-23 17:51:12] <Lucifer_arma> I should build up Landru and add the ability to crack passwords, and then sell time on it to organizations that just want to test password strength :)
[2023-11-23 17:51:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I should build up Landru and add the ability to crack passwords, and then sell time on it to organizations that just want to test password strength :)
[2023-11-23 17:52:01] <Lucifer_arma> anyway, I need to go download my cert and get https working.  I'm tired of my web browser warning me about how insecure my stock market trading app is ;)
[2023-11-23 17:52:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| anyway, I need to go download my cert and get https working.  I'm tired of my web browser warning me about how insecure my stock market trading app is ;)
[2023-11-23 18:21:07] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I may have to go with letsencrypt
[2023-11-23 18:21:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I may have to go with letsencrypt
[2023-11-23 18:21:35] <Lucifer_arma> so, here's the problem.  To use the no-ip cert, I have to use only my domain, no wildcards, no cname records.  So it's "davefancella.com".
[2023-11-23 18:21:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, here's the problem.  To use the no-ip cert, I have to use only my domain, no wildcards, no cname records.  So it's "davefancella.com".
[2023-11-23 18:21:54] <Lucifer_arma> davefancella.com resolves to my webserver out in the cloud, the one you get with www.davefancella.com
[2023-11-23 18:21:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| davefancella.com resolves to my webserver out in the cloud, the one you get with www.davefancella.com
[2023-11-23 18:22:14] <Lucifer_arma> but I need landru.davefancella.com to use the cert, and when I do that, I get a warning in my browser about how the cert doesn't match the host
[2023-11-23 18:22:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I need landru.davefancella.com to use the cert, and when I do that, I get a warning in my browser about how the cert doesn't match the host
[2023-11-23 18:22:40] <Lucifer_arma> so, does that mean I can't use the no-ip-provided cert on landru?  Or did I miss something in configuring apache?
[2023-11-23 18:22:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, does that mean I can't use the no-ip-provided cert on landru?  Or did I miss something in configuring apache?
[2023-11-23 18:23:32] <Lucifer_arma> I can proceed like this for now, because I put an exception in firefox, since I own the server and I know it's fine.  But long-term, that's not ok
[2023-11-23 18:23:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can proceed like this for now, because I put an exception in firefox, since I own the server and I know it's fine.  But long-term, that's not ok
[2023-11-23 19:16:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Are you using apache virtualhosts? Because that's how certbot likes it. You can add multiple certificates at once
[2023-11-23 19:16:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Are you using apache virtualhosts? Because that's how certbot likes it. You can add multiple certificates at once
[2023-11-23 19:16:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| It used to support wildcards, I'm sure, but no longer
[2023-11-23 19:16:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| It used to support wildcards, I'm sure, but no longer
[2023-11-23 19:19:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh and sudo certbot --apache iirc
[2023-11-23 19:19:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh and sudo certbot --apache iirc
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[2023-11-23 21:33:13] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, vhost
[2023-11-23 21:33:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, vhost
[2023-11-23 21:33:58] <Lucifer_arma> honestly, this is probably the only thing left that I *must* do before I deploy landru's website to a real installation.  Right now it's running from the development directory
[2023-11-23 21:33:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| honestly, this is probably the only thing left that I *must* do before I deploy landru's website to a real installation.  Right now it's running from the development directory
[2023-11-23 22:01:55] <Lucifer_arma> this is useful: https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html
[2023-11-23 22:01:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| this is useful: https://refspecs.linuxfoundation.org/FHS_3.0/fhs/index.html

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[2023-11-24 02:21:36] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I did letsencrypt.  Landru is running correctly now
[2023-11-24 02:21:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I did letsencrypt.  Landru is running correctly now
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[2023-11-24 06:00:03] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-11-24 16:32:24] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| How are you managing incomign connections? Is apache sitting on one of your Pi machines
[2023-11-24 16:32:24] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| How are you managing incomign connections? Is apache sitting on one of your Pi machines
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[2023-11-24 20:23:40] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-11-24 20:23:42] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-11-24 20:24:11] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2023-11-24 22:28:55] <Lucifer_arma> No, it's on the laptop.  Technically, there are five computers in the cluster.  The Orange Pi 5 that's the database, the three worker nodes, and everything else is on my laptop, still.  It's the scheduler, the rpc server, and the website
[2023-11-24 22:28:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| No, it's on the laptop.  Technically, there are five computers in the cluster.  The Orange Pi 5 that's the database, the three worker nodes, and everything else is on my laptop, still.  It's the scheduler, the rpc server, and the website
[2023-11-24 22:29:02] <Lucifer_arma> oh, the database server is also the fileserver
[2023-11-24 22:29:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh, the database server is also the fileserver
[2023-11-24 22:29:49] <Lucifer_arma> I could really use a computer to replace my laptop in the cluster, but if I put money into another machine for the cluster, it's going to be a worker node
[2023-11-24 22:29:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I could really use a computer to replace my laptop in the cluster, but if I put money into another machine for the cluster, it's going to be a worker node
[2023-11-24 22:30:23] <Lucifer_arma> but in the unlikely event that I find someone with a computer comparable to my laptop that they don't need/want anymore, I might nab it and move everything that's on my laptop over to it
[2023-11-24 22:30:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but in the unlikely event that I find someone with a computer comparable to my laptop that they don't need/want anymore, I might nab it and move everything that's on my laptop over to it
[2023-11-24 22:41:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| looks like armagetronad package on arch is fixed
[2023-11-24 22:41:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| looks like armagetronad package on arch is fixed
[2023-11-24 22:41:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| issue with arch compile flags
[2023-11-24 22:41:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| issue with arch compile flags
[2023-11-24 23:11:25] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| here's the compile flags used: https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/devtools/-/tree/master/config/makepkg
[2023-11-24 23:11:26] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| here's the compile flags used: https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/devtools/-/tree/master/config/makepkg
[2023-11-24 23:15:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| officially by arch system that is
[2023-11-24 23:15:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| officially by arch system that is

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[2023-11-25 03:04:59] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2023-11-25 03:05:01] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2023-11-25 03:05:02] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2023-11-25 03:48:06] <Lucifer_arma> man, checkboxes are a pain in the ass, and unnecessarily so
[2023-11-25 03:48:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| man, checkboxes are a pain in the ass, and unnecessarily so
[2023-11-25 03:48:22] <Lucifer_arma> although, I guess not, they're just, erm, dumb
[2023-11-25 03:48:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| although, I guess not, they're just, erm, dumb
[2023-11-25 03:49:07] <Lucifer_arma> with every other input, you give it a name, you get it in the form dictionary.  But not checkboxes.  If they're not checked, they're not in the dictionary, because they don't even get submitted.  If they are submitted, you don't get "checked" or "True", you get whatever you put in the value field
[2023-11-25 03:49:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| with every other input, you give it a name, you get it in the form dictionary.  But not checkboxes.  If they're not checked, they're not in the dictionary, because they don't even get submitted.  If they are submitted, you don't get "checked" or "True", you get whatever you put in the value field
[2023-11-25 03:49:52] <Lucifer_arma> I'm sure there's a smarter way to use them, but so many people just give each one a unique name and do value="1" because that's the expected behavior
[2023-11-25 03:49:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm sure there's a smarter way to use them, but so many people just give each one a unique name and do value="1" because that's the expected behavior
[2023-11-25 03:50:51] <Lucifer_arma> html, html forms, and javascript all have the feeling of being "designed" by a teenager who just slapped something together to make it work real quick and never bothered to go back and make it sensible
[2023-11-25 03:50:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| html, html forms, and javascript all have the feeling of being "designed" by a teenager who just slapped something together to make it work real quick and never bothered to go back and make it sensible
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[2023-11-25 08:23:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma re: apache server, you can pick up old USFF machines for pennies on ebay. They make fantastic web hosts for basic projects, and they don't suck down a great deal of power either. I have two here at present running my test environment, and a third arriving after Solstice. I think I paid nine quid for one, and fifteen for the other
[2023-11-25 08:23:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma re: apache server, you can pick up old USFF machines for pennies on ebay. They make fantastic web hosts for basic projects, and they don't suck down a great deal of power either. I have two here at present running my test environment, and a third arriving after Solstice. I think I paid nine quid for one, and fifteen for the other
[2023-11-25 08:25:52] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Here's a good example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/266331062491
[2023-11-25 08:25:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Here's a good example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/266331062491
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[2023-11-26 00:09:14] <Lucifer_arma> jeez, how much is a quid worth these days?  That's got $20 shipping on top of it.  I could actually get a raspberry pi 3b for roughly the same price and it would probably do the job, too.  I was considering going that route to build a file server
[2023-11-26 00:09:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| jeez, how much is a quid worth these days?  That's got $20 shipping on top of it.  I could actually get a raspberry pi 3b for roughly the same price and it would probably do the job, too.  I was considering going that route to build a file server
[2023-11-26 00:11:08] <Lucifer_arma> I may look around some more, but it's not a high priority right now.  There's also a school district surplus store not far from me.  That's probably a good place to get a web server and file server, since they don't need much (although I imagine a file server would benefit from a shitload of ram)
[2023-11-26 00:11:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I may look around some more, but it's not a high priority right now.  There's also a school district surplus store not far from me.  That's probably a good place to get a web server and file server, since they don't need much (although I imagine a file server would benefit from a shitload of ram)
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[2023-11-26 08:47:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I may have exaggerated a little, but I suspect if you have a little hunt for them you'll find them at similar prices as I did. 
[2023-11-26 08:47:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I may have exaggerated a little, but I suspect if you have a little hunt for them you'll find them at similar prices as I did. 
[2023-11-26 08:47:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for a file server, kinda. Realistically it's a balance between memory (and properly balanced memory at that) and cpu performance. With the bandwidth of modern storage, you can find surprisingly quickly that the overheads of oh-so-many drives in raid overwhelm a processor in short order.
[2023-11-26 08:47:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for a file server, kinda. Realistically it's a balance between memory (and properly balanced memory at that) and cpu performance. With the bandwidth of modern storage, you can find surprisingly quickly that the overheads of oh-so-many drives in raid overwhelm a processor in short order.
[2023-11-26 08:47:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That said, if you're on a budget, I wouldn't be so concerned - a cheapish dual or quad core machine with 8gb of memory will do just fine with truenas, xigmanas, unraid, fugu, or whatever other network storage solution you go with
[2023-11-26 08:47:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That said, if you're on a budget, I wouldn't be so concerned - a cheapish dual or quad core machine with 8gb of memory will do just fine with truenas, xigmanas, unraid, fugu, or whatever other network storage solution you go with
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[2023-11-26 22:36:32] <Lucifer_arma> well, the reason to prefer, say, a raspberry pi 4 is because later, when I upgrade the fileserver, the pi 4 becomes a worker node
[2023-11-26 22:36:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, the reason to prefer, say, a raspberry pi 4 is because later, when I upgrade the fileserver, the pi 4 becomes a worker node
[2023-11-26 22:37:22] <Lucifer_arma> it's 4 cores, and that can help network share performance, even with only 4-8GB.  The pi 3 is similar, but it's the older ARM version, so even though it's roughly the same clock speed as the pi 4, it's significantly slower.
[2023-11-26 22:37:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's 4 cores, and that can help network share performance, even with only 4-8GB.  The pi 3 is similar, but it's the older ARM version, so even though it's roughly the same clock speed as the pi 4, it's significantly slower.
[2023-11-26 22:37:43] <Lucifer_arma> but the pi 3 has the pseudo-gigabit ethernet issue :)
[2023-11-26 22:37:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but the pi 3 has the pseudo-gigabit ethernet issue :)
[2023-11-26 22:38:28] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not in a hurry to do the fileserver, though.  The scheduler needs to be on the same machine as the rpc server that I wrote, and the web server can be on either that machine or the fileserver.  Either is fine.
[2023-11-26 22:38:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not in a hurry to do the fileserver, though.  The scheduler needs to be on the same machine as the rpc server that I wrote, and the web server can be on either that machine or the fileserver.  Either is fine.
[2023-11-26 22:39:07] <Lucifer_arma> right now, the database is the fileserver as well, but it's only serving a shared directory for the cluster.  The fileserver in its final form will serve OSes for netbooting workers.
[2023-11-26 22:39:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| right now, the database is the fileserver as well, but it's only serving a shared directory for the cluster.  The fileserver in its final form will serve OSes for netbooting workers.
[2023-11-26 22:39:33] <Lucifer_arma> it'll also serve that shared directoy for the cluster.
[2023-11-26 22:39:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it'll also serve that shared directoy for the cluster.
[2023-11-26 22:39:50] <Lucifer_arma> it might also serve as the syslog daemon for the entire cluster
[2023-11-26 22:39:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it might also serve as the syslog daemon for the entire cluster
[2023-11-26 22:40:42] <Lucifer_arma> but that's waaaaay down the road.  Right now, the question is "Do I buy another worker node, or a support node?" where support nodes are things like fileserver, webserver, database server, etc.  And I think the answer is "worker node", and that's a pi 4.
[2023-11-26 22:40:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but that's waaaaay down the road.  Right now, the question is "Do I buy another worker node, or a support node?" where support nodes are things like fileserver, webserver, database server, etc.  And I think the answer is "worker node", and that's a pi 4.
[2023-11-26 22:40:54] <Lucifer_arma> since the pi 5 came out, I'm watching pi 4 prices hoping they'll drop quite a bit.
[2023-11-26 22:40:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| since the pi 5 came out, I'm watching pi 4 prices hoping they'll drop quite a bit.
[2023-11-26 22:41:52] <Lucifer_arma> I have one more slot available in my cluster case, and three empty pi 4 cases.  So if I make them all worker nodes, I currently have the cases for 7 in total.  I'll still need power supplies, but if I can find a single power supply for the cluster case (which takes four), then I'll have enough power supplies, too.
[2023-11-26 22:41:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I have one more slot available in my cluster case, and three empty pi 4 cases.  So if I make them all worker nodes, I currently have the cases for 7 in total.  I'll still need power supplies, but if I can find a single power supply for the cluster case (which takes four), then I'll have enough power supplies, too.
[2023-11-26 22:42:12] <Lucifer_arma> I can probably use the current fileserver as the netboot server.
[2023-11-26 22:42:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I can probably use the current fileserver as the netboot server.
[2023-11-26 22:42:42] <Lucifer_arma> SO now that I've typed this all out, I think the thing I should be looking for is a power supply that'll power 4 raspberry pi 4's.  That's the best thing to add to the cluster next.
[2023-11-26 22:42:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| SO now that I've typed this all out, I think the thing I should be looking for is a power supply that'll power 4 raspberry pi 4's.  That's the best thing to add to the cluster next.

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[2023-11-27 08:06:13] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Old laptop psu should do the trick. You'll need a DC/DC converter to drop the voltage down to 5v, but that should handle the amperage. Pi4 pulls 2A, so 8A  is the target. That's nothing for a laptop psu, but the voltage converter will need to be rated for it.
[2023-11-27 08:06:14] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Old laptop psu should do the trick. You'll need a DC/DC converter to drop the voltage down to 5v, but that should handle the amperage. Pi4 pulls 2A, so 8A  is the target. That's nothing for a laptop psu, but the voltage converter will need to be rated for it.
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[2023-11-27 16:23:20] <Z-Man> I just discovered that the fan assembly of my GPU, weighing about 20 g, had fallen off because the plastic on all four screw points broke. Yes, all they were holding was the fan assembly. Well, at least I know now that I can operate this GPU with semi-passive cooling :) Judging by the dust on the broken bits, it had been in this state for months.
[2023-11-27 16:23:20] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| I just discovered that the fan assembly of my GPU, weighing about 20 g, had fallen off because the plastic on all four screw points broke. Yes, all they were holding was the fan assembly. Well, at least I know now that I can operate this GPU with semi-passive cooling :) Judging by the dust on the broken bits, it had been in this state for months.
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[2023-11-27 16:42:46] <Z-Man> I probably strained the connections earlier when I put the GPU in.
[2023-11-27 16:42:47] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| I probably strained the connections earlier when I put the GPU in.
[2023-11-27 16:42:59] <Z-Man> I probably shouldn not have taped over the power socket.
[2023-11-27 16:42:59] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| I probably shouldn not have taped over the power socket.
[2023-11-27 19:29:14] <Lucifer_arma> We sell a power supply that'll work, actually, and with my employee discount, it's quite affordable.  It takes 12V in.  So what I want is a power supply that'll put out 14V and charge a 12V battery.  Then it's also a UPS
[2023-11-27 19:29:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| We sell a power supply that'll work, actually, and with my employee discount, it's quite affordable.  It takes 12V in.  So what I want is a power supply that'll put out 14V and charge a 12V battery.  Then it's also a UPS
[2023-11-27 19:29:57] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: I don't know why, but I"m picturing you fixing the problem by putting a box fan right next to your case
[2023-11-27 19:29:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: I don't know why, but I"m picturing you fixing the problem by putting a box fan right next to your case
[2023-11-27 21:49:18] <Lucifer_arma> lovely.  Now I have to setup my own email server again.  :/
[2023-11-27 21:49:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| lovely.  Now I have to setup my own email server again.  :/
[2023-11-27 21:49:38] <Lucifer_arma> I'll put it on the same machine as the BIH game server.  It'll be just like old times.  :)
[2023-11-27 21:49:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll put it on the same machine as the BIH game server.  It'll be just like old times.  :)
[2023-11-27 21:58:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: mailcow.email
[2023-11-27 21:58:23] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: mailcow.email
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[2023-11-27 22:39:42] <Lucifer_arma> why not dovecot?
[2023-11-27 22:39:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| why not dovecot?
[2023-11-27 22:41:09] <Lucifer_arma> I'm just going to slap postfix together and see if google filters it out as spam, coming from a dynamic IP address.  If it doesn't, then I'm good for now.
[2023-11-27 22:41:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm just going to slap postfix together and see if google filters it out as spam, coming from a dynamic IP address.  If it doesn't, then I'm good for now.
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[2023-11-28 02:01:01] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2023-11-28 02:10:01] <Lucifer_arma> now I have a password recovery hash.  What next?  :/
[2023-11-28 02:10:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now I have a password recovery hash.  What next?  :/
[2023-11-28 02:14:11] <Lucifer_arma> question for anybody who wants to answer it
[2023-11-28 02:14:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| question for anybody who wants to answer it
[2023-11-28 02:14:47] <Lucifer_arma> since locking out a user account after a few password fails is the best way to stop numerous attacks, what kind of policies do you, as users, find reasonable?
[2023-11-28 02:14:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| since locking out a user account after a few password fails is the best way to stop numerous attacks, what kind of policies do you, as users, find reasonable?
[2023-11-28 02:15:18] <Lucifer_arma> For example: three failed attempts in 5 minutes.  10 failed attempts in 24 hours.  20 total failed attempts.
[2023-11-28 02:15:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| For example: three failed attempts in 5 minutes.  10 failed attempts in 24 hours.  20 total failed attempts.
[2023-11-28 02:16:01] <Lucifer_arma> I figure that a failure should trigger an email with a password recovery link in it, but those often get sorted into a bad place.  So what do you like to see when you are locked out?
[2023-11-28 02:16:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I figure that a failure should trigger an email with a password recovery link in it, but those often get sorted into a bad place.  So what do you like to see when you are locked out?
[2023-11-28 02:17:02] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not in a hurry to implement anything yet, I'm just thinking about it since I'm doing password recovery stuff, so I'm thinking about security
[2023-11-28 02:17:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not in a hurry to implement anything yet, I'm just thinking about it since I'm doing password recovery stuff, so I'm thinking about security
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[2023-11-28 04:59:05] <Lucifer_arma> well, it was a nice idea.  I need a mail server now.  I'll worry about that tomorrow.
[2023-11-28 04:59:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, it was a nice idea.  I need a mail server now.  I'll worry about that tomorrow.
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[2023-11-28 07:58:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Reason I suggested mailcow is because it takes the bleh out of configuring a mailbox. 
[2023-11-28 07:58:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Reason I suggested mailcow is because it takes the bleh out of configuring a mailbox. 
[2023-11-28 07:58:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also, don't trigger a recovery email until the user requests one, and don't directly confirm whether or not a request for a recovery email was successful. The former triggers a process that may not be necessary and thus exposes the user to compromise, the latter prevents the recovery feature being misused to confirm the existence of an account attached to an email
[2023-11-28 07:58:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also, don't trigger a recovery email until the user requests one, and don't directly confirm whether or not a request for a recovery email was successful. The former triggers a process that may not be necessary and thus exposes the user to compromise, the latter prevents the recovery feature being misused to confirm the existence of an account attached to an email
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[2023-11-28 16:49:04] <Lucifer_arma> Yeah, this isn't my first rodeo :)
[2023-11-28 16:49:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Yeah, this isn't my first rodeo :)
[2023-11-28 16:49:52] <Lucifer_arma> I also require the user to type in their email address on the password recovery link.  It's a little bit of protection, but it's more than I see on other sites
[2023-11-28 16:49:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I also require the user to type in their email address on the password recovery link.  It's a little bit of protection, but it's more than I see on other sites
[2023-11-28 18:11:58] <Lucifer_arma> ok, why is postfix not making log entries?
[2023-11-28 18:11:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, why is postfix not making log entries?
[2023-11-28 18:24:51] <Lucifer_arma> got that fixed
[2023-11-28 18:24:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| got that fixed
[2023-11-28 19:03:47] <Lucifer_arma> damn, I'm foiled by the need for a PTR record, which costs money I don't have right now
[2023-11-28 19:03:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| damn, I'm foiled by the need for a PTR record, which costs money I don't have right now
[2023-11-28 19:05:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Grab an AWS machine (I know, I know, amazon), which you can do for free for a year. It comes wiht (as far as I know) free PTR/RR functionality
[2023-11-28 19:05:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Grab an AWS machine (I know, I know, amazon), which you can do for free for a year. It comes wiht (as far as I know) free PTR/RR functionality
[2023-11-28 19:06:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| then proxy forward all your requests through it with apache
[2023-11-28 19:06:03] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| then proxy forward all your requests through it with apache
[2023-11-28 20:02:08] <Lucifer_arma> I got it working, sorta.  My mail server can send mail just fine.  I disabled ipv6 for that.  Apparently PTR records are only for ipv6.  I have all the ipv4 stuff setup
[2023-11-28 20:02:25] <Lucifer_arma> now the problem is getting my web app on my local computer to connect to the mailserver and send mail
[2023-11-28 20:03:41] <Lucifer_arma> I don't really need password recovery right now, because I'm the only user and I have access to the database directly :)
[2023-11-28 20:04:24] <Lucifer_arma> what I'm trying to setup is my local postfix should connect to the remote on my mail server, so that any emails sent from the local machine will be sent
[2023-11-28 20:04:38] <Lucifer_arma> that'll give my cluster the ability to send emails, which it needs.
[2023-11-28 20:05:42] <-- Netsplit between *.net and *.split. Quit: Juest, armagetronbridge, DruidMonr0e, Z-Man
[2023-11-28 20:05:46] <Lucifer_arma> so that's the link that's failing right now, and I don't have any clue where to start.  Do I setup aliases on the remote so that all mail sent from the local postfix uses one remote account?
[2023-11-28 20:06:01] <Lucifer_arma> is that even how it works?  It's been a *long* time since I managed my own postfix server
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[2023-11-28 20:07:16] <Lucifer_arma> so I need to setup the remote postfix to act as a relay for the local postfix.  I *think* I have that setup, but I have no way to verify it, since it's not working
[2023-11-28 20:07:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so I need to setup the remote postfix to act as a relay for the local postfix.  I *think* I have that setup, but I have no way to verify it, since it's not working
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[2023-11-28 20:14:00] <Lucifer_arma> ok, it's trying to say my user is dave@Ghostwheel to gmail.  It's not rewriting that to dave@davefancella.com
[2023-11-28 20:14:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, it's trying to say my user is dave@Ghostwheel to gmail.  It's not rewriting that to dave@davefancella.com
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[2023-11-28 20:41:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ptr records are definitely required for IPv4. Most larger mail providers will reject any mail that doesn't come from an address with an appropriate ptr record
[2023-11-28 20:41:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ptr records are definitely required for IPv4. Most larger mail providers will reject any mail that doesn't come from an address with an appropriate ptr record
[2023-11-28 20:43:33] <Lucifer_arma> I've got spf and dkim.  I can send mail from the mail server to gmail just fine.
[2023-11-28 20:43:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've got spf and dkim.  I can send mail from the mail server to gmail just fine.
[2023-11-28 20:44:04] <Lucifer_arma> the mail server is relaying mails sent form my local postfix, as well
[2023-11-28 20:44:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the mail server is relaying mails sent form my local postfix, as well
[2023-11-28 20:44:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| weird. Maybe a policy change happened. What about yahoo and hotmail?
[2023-11-28 20:44:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| weird. Maybe a policy change happened. What about yahoo and hotmail?
[2023-11-28 20:44:35] <Lucifer_arma> the problem I'm having is that gmail is trying to do a reverse lookup on dave@Ghostwheel (my local computer) instead of the relay
[2023-11-28 20:44:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the problem I'm having is that gmail is trying to do a reverse lookup on dave@Ghostwheel (my local computer) instead of the relay
[2023-11-28 20:44:53] <Lucifer_arma> so I need to get the relay to tell gmail somehow that it should be checking the relay, not the actual source
[2023-11-28 20:44:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so I need to get the relay to tell gmail somehow that it should be checking the relay, not the actual source
[2023-11-28 20:45:49] <Lucifer_arma> I've got opendkim installed for the signing, and I'm using dovecot for the sasl auth
[2023-11-28 20:45:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've got opendkim installed for the signing, and I'm using dovecot for the sasl auth
[2023-11-28 20:46:19] <Lucifer_arma> so my config is broken either in postfix itself, or opendkim
[2023-11-28 20:46:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so my config is broken either in postfix itself, or opendkim
[2023-11-28 20:46:54] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I've pinged someone in the sysadmin irc who set up a relay. I don't think I've ever done that specifically
[2023-11-28 20:46:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I've pinged someone in the sysadmin irc who set up a relay. I don't think I've ever done that specifically
[2023-11-28 20:47:52] <Lucifer_arma> I had a relay setup a long time ago, before all these new solutions to spam appeared.  If this were 2008, it'd be working fine :)
[2023-11-28 20:47:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I had a relay setup a long time ago, before all these new solutions to spam appeared.  If this were 2008, it'd be working fine :)
[2023-11-28 20:49:50] <Lucifer_arma> after all this, I still need to setup dovecot to be my imap/pop3 server.  Since google made google domains a pay only service, I can't receive email to my domain until I do that
[2023-11-28 20:49:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| after all this, I still need to setup dovecot to be my imap/pop3 server.  Since google made google domains a pay only service, I can't receive email to my domain until I do that
[2023-11-28 21:03:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @northernscrub oh where?
[2023-11-28 21:03:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @northernscrub oh where?
[2023-11-28 21:05:54] <DruidMonr0e> Juesto: #reddit-syadmin - but be warned, they can be crotchety with newcomers. Lurk for a bit first
[2023-11-28 21:05:55] <armagetron-bridge> 03irc:DruidMonr0e| Juesto: #reddit-syadmin - but be warned, they can be crotchety with newcomers. Lurk for a bit first
[2023-11-28 21:06:52] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| reddit, really?
[2023-11-28 21:06:52] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| reddit, really?
[2023-11-28 21:07:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| thought it would be like a more independent sysadmin community
[2023-11-28 21:07:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| thought it would be like a more independent sysadmin community
[2023-11-28 21:07:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| in oftc?
[2023-11-28 21:07:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| in oftc?
[2023-11-28 21:07:18] <DruidMonr0e> it's only a reddit community by name tbh
[2023-11-28 21:07:19] <armagetron-bridge> 03irc:DruidMonr0e| it's only a reddit community by name tbh
[2023-11-28 21:07:22] <DruidMonr0e> no, libera
[2023-11-28 21:07:23] <armagetron-bridge> 03irc:DruidMonr0e| no, libera
[2023-11-28 21:07:52] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-28 21:07:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2023-11-28 21:08:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry, the bridge isnt easy to tell what network one is talking from
[2023-11-28 21:08:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sorry, the bridge isnt easy to tell what network one is talking from
[2023-11-28 21:08:33] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean its impossible to tell, just prefixes with irc
[2023-11-28 21:08:33] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean its impossible to tell, just prefixes with irc
[2023-11-28 21:08:55] <DruidMonr0e> Should I change it? Or is it not that important
[2023-11-28 21:08:55] <armagetron-bridge> 03irc:DruidMonr0e| Should I change it? Or is it not that important
[2023-11-28 21:10:22] <Lucifer_arma> if you change it, you need to change the bot name to make it *much* shorter :)
[2023-11-28 21:10:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if you change it, you need to change the bot name to make it *much* shorter :)
[2023-11-28 21:11:37] <DruidMonr0e> I do wish the protocol had been updated over the years. It's kind of annoying not to be able to use webhooks or some similar approach to change the name of the bot depending on the speaker
[2023-11-28 21:11:37] <armagetron-bridge> 03irc:DruidMonr0e| I do wish the protocol had been updated over the years. It's kind of annoying not to be able to use webhooks or some similar approach to change the name of the bot depending on the speaker
[2023-11-28 21:11:40] <DruidMonr0e> we can do that on discord
[2023-11-28 21:11:41] <armagetron-bridge> 03irc:DruidMonr0e| we can do that on discord
[2023-11-28 21:11:49] <Lucifer_arma> right now, the timestamp + botname + username coming from the bridge takes up 25% of the horizontal real estate.  If you add network + channel to that, it'll probably push it all the way to half the size of the message
[2023-11-28 21:11:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| right now, the timestamp + botname + username coming from the bridge takes up 25% of the horizontal real estate.  If you add network + channel to that, it'll probably push it all the way to half the size of the message
[2023-11-28 21:12:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| this is how the naming schema works on discord Lucifer_arma
[2023-11-28 21:12:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1179243526136012890/Capture.PNG?ex=6579131d&is=65669e1d&hm=3ad960d32273808e5fde57a2d74ad3a06377473a4d29bae25d0b816584059772&
[2023-11-28 21:12:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| this is how the naming schema works on discord Lucifer_arma
[2023-11-28 21:12:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1179243526136012890/Capture.PNG?ex=6579131d&is=65669e1d&hm=3ad960d32273808e5fde57a2d74ad3a06377473a4d29bae25d0b816584059772&
[2023-11-28 21:13:17] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya, that's the part I don't like. If I could rename "armagetron-bridge" to the username of the speaker every time it would be much cleaner
[2023-11-28 21:13:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya, that's the part I don't like. If I could rename "armagetron-bridge" to the username of the speaker every time it would be much cleaner
[2023-11-28 21:14:00] <Lucifer_arma> it would be ideal if the bot could create a new user in the channel for each user in each other connected channel
[2023-11-28 21:14:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it would be ideal if the bot could create a new user in the channel for each user in each other connected channel
[2023-11-28 21:14:14] <Lucifer_arma> I know that's possible, but that's all I know
[2023-11-28 21:14:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I know that's possible, but that's all I know
[2023-11-28 21:14:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| it would get insta kicked for flooding
[2023-11-28 21:14:21] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| it would get insta kicked for flooding
[2023-11-28 21:14:27] <Lucifer_arma> I've actually been tempted to write my own
[2023-11-28 21:14:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've actually been tempted to write my own
[2023-11-28 21:15:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the reason, though, that I include "irc" or "discord" before the username in IRC is because there are two IRC networks linked together. Although now that I think abotu it, that doesn't really matter, does it? Perhaps I can remove the network indicator on the IRC side
[2023-11-28 21:15:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the reason, though, that I include "irc" or "discord" before the username in IRC is because there are two IRC networks linked together. Although now that I think abotu it, that doesn't really matter, does it? Perhaps I can remove the network indicator on the IRC side
[2023-11-28 21:16:32] <Lucifer_arma> no, we need to know where people are coming from
[2023-11-28 21:16:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, we need to know where people are coming from
[2023-11-28 21:17:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| across IRC, nto really - all you need do is mention their nick. On discord, perhaps we can have an abbreviated indicator
[2023-11-28 21:17:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| across IRC, nto really - all you need do is mention their nick. On discord, perhaps we can have an abbreviated indicator
[2023-11-28 21:17:18] <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to also see what channel they're in.  If I wanted to go over to libera and find the people that I see on the bot, I"d need that information
[2023-11-28 21:17:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'd like to also see what channel they're in.  If I wanted to go over to libera and find the people that I see on the bot, I"d need that information
[2023-11-28 21:17:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As in, what channel they're speaking from, or what *other* channels they're in?
[2023-11-28 21:17:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As in, what channel they're speaking from, or what *other* channels they're in?
[2023-11-28 21:17:54] <Lucifer_arma> speaking from
[2023-11-28 21:17:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| speaking from
[2023-11-28 21:18:12] <Lucifer_arma> is it possible to talk to the bot directly?  Get a list of people it's relaying?
[2023-11-28 21:18:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| is it possible to talk to the bot directly?  Get a list of people it's relaying?
[2023-11-28 21:18:16] <Lucifer_arma> armagetron-bridge: hi
[2023-11-28 21:18:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| armagetron-bridge: hi
[2023-11-28 21:18:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| that's straightforward enough - across IRC the channel names will always be identical
[2023-11-28 21:18:19] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| that's straightforward enough - across IRC the channel names will always be identical
[2023-11-28 21:18:19] <Lucifer_arma> armagetron-bridge: help
[2023-11-28 21:18:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| armagetron-bridge: help
[2023-11-28 21:18:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| um... I don't actually know, hang on
[2023-11-28 21:18:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| um... I don't actually know, hang on
[2023-11-28 21:18:55] <Lucifer_arma> what software is it using?
[2023-11-28 21:18:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| what software is it using?
[2023-11-28 21:18:58] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh speaking of a bot, I should update rinzler and have it also be present on IRC
[2023-11-28 21:18:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh speaking of a bot, I should update rinzler and have it also be present on IRC
[2023-11-28 21:19:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Matterbridge
[2023-11-28 21:19:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Matterbridge
[2023-11-28 21:19:27] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
[2023-11-28 21:19:27] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://github.com/42wim/matterbridge
[2023-11-28 21:20:15] <Juest> what network they're talking from
[2023-11-28 21:20:15] <armagetron-bridge> 14irc:Juest| what network they're talking from
[2023-11-28 21:20:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, right. So you want to see "libera" or "oftc" instead of "irc
[2023-11-28 21:20:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh, right. So you want to see "libera" or "oftc" instead of "irc
[2023-11-28 21:20:44] <Juest> guess the network without looking in irc\
[2023-11-28 21:20:45] <armagetron-bridge> 14irc:Juest| guess the network without looking in irc\
[2023-11-28 21:20:51] <Juest> you cant
[2023-11-28 21:20:51] <armagetron-bridge> 14irc:Juest| you cant
[2023-11-28 21:21:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'll make some changes tomorrow
[2023-11-28 21:21:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'll make some changes tomorrow
[2023-11-28 21:21:10] <Juest> that would be useful yes, even on the irc side
[2023-11-28 21:21:11] <armagetron-bridge> 14irc:Juest| that would be useful yes, even on the irc side
[2023-11-28 21:21:19] <Lucifer_arma> heh, supported by Digital Ocean
[2023-11-28 21:21:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| heh, supported by Digital Ocean
[2023-11-28 21:21:26] <Juest> makes sense?
[2023-11-28 21:21:27] <armagetron-bridge> 14irc:Juest| makes sense?
[2023-11-28 21:21:27] <Lucifer_arma> I've been reading a lot of their articles while setting up postfix :)
[2023-11-28 21:21:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've been reading a lot of their articles while setting up postfix :)
[2023-11-28 21:21:33] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| :)
[2023-11-28 21:21:33] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| :)
[2023-11-28 21:22:10] <Lucifer_arma> yea, see the network, but also the protocol so we'll know which app to use if we need to go there directly
[2023-11-28 21:22:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yea, see the network, but also the protocol so we'll know which app to use if we need to go there directly
[2023-11-28 21:22:37] <Lucifer_arma> but ideally, the username thing, because tab completion doesn't work for users in armagetron-bridge
[2023-11-28 21:22:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but ideally, the username thing, because tab completion doesn't work for users in armagetron-bridge
[2023-11-28 21:22:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Honestly I don't know if I can fix that, I think its a limitation of IRC
[2023-11-28 21:22:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Honestly I don't know if I can fix that, I think its a limitation of IRC
[2023-11-28 21:23:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| there might be one or two clients that support it, but universal support is likely never going to come
[2023-11-28 21:23:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| there might be one or two clients that support it, but universal support is likely never going to come
[2023-11-28 21:23:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's not a limitation of irc per se, if it's a limitation, it's oftc/libera limiting it
[2023-11-28 21:23:19] <Lucifer_arma> it's not a limitation of irc per se, if it's a limitation, it's oftc/libera limiting it
[2023-11-28 21:23:44] <Lucifer_arma> there's no technical reason a single client can't connect as multiple users on the same irc server/network
[2023-11-28 21:23:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there's no technical reason a single client can't connect as multiple users on the same irc server/network
[2023-11-28 21:23:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you want the bridge to spam users
[2023-11-28 21:23:59] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you want the bridge to spam users
[2023-11-28 21:24:13] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh that. Right, I thought you were referring to dynamic nick changing
[2023-11-28 21:24:13] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Oh that. Right, I thought you were referring to dynamic nick changing
[2023-11-28 21:24:16] <Lucifer_arma> it wouldn't be spam.  Spam is unwanted. 
[2023-11-28 21:24:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it wouldn't be spam.  Spam is unwanted.
[2023-11-28 21:24:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sure, look at how php guys do it, it clutters your join/parts
[2023-11-28 21:24:22] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sure, look at how php guys do it, it clutters your join/parts
[2023-11-28 21:24:54] <Lucifer_arma> you can hide those messages in your client?
[2023-11-28 21:24:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you can hide those messages in your client?
[2023-11-28 21:24:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| it spams join/parts because the users were offline for a certain period of time and reappear when they come back online
[2023-11-28 21:24:56] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| it spams join/parts because the users were offline for a certain period of time and reappear when they come back online
[2023-11-28 21:25:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its still spam
[2023-11-28 21:25:02] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its still spam
[2023-11-28 21:25:11] <Lucifer_arma> it's the nature of the app
[2023-11-28 21:25:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's the nature of the app
[2023-11-28 21:25:19] <Lucifer_arma> in channels with like 200 people, you see that anyway
[2023-11-28 21:25:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| in channels with like 200 people, you see that anyway
[2023-11-28 21:26:29] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean, spam virtual users, at least its mostly harmless
[2023-11-28 21:26:30] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean, spam virtual users, at least its mostly harmless
[2023-11-28 21:26:37] <Lucifer_arma> on a certain level, everyone communicating through the bridge is in the same channel, so they're all legitimate users of the channel
[2023-11-28 21:26:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| on a certain level, everyone communicating through the bridge is in the same channel, so they're all legitimate users of the channel
[2023-11-28 21:26:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| but its traffic
[2023-11-28 21:26:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| but its traffic
[2023-11-28 21:27:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| on discord it would be impossible to have those fake users in a user list unfortunately
[2023-11-28 21:27:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| on discord it would be impossible to have those fake users in a user list unfortunately
[2023-11-28 21:27:24] <Lucifer_arma> it wouldn't be any different than if they actually joined this channel.  We'd get the join/part clutter then.  THe only reason we don't have it now is because there's only like 6 people here
[2023-11-28 21:27:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it wouldn't be any different than if they actually joined this channel.  We'd get the join/part clutter then.  THe only reason we don't have it now is because there's only like 6 people here
[2023-11-28 21:27:55] <Lucifer_arma> they're not fake users, they're users connected by proxy.  They're still connected.
[2023-11-28 21:27:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| they're not fake users, they're users connected by proxy.  They're still connected.
[2023-11-28 21:28:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| virtual users i meant
[2023-11-28 21:28:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| virtual users i meant
[2023-11-28 21:28:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| To be honest, this opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. When you create a user account, even if it's just to represent that user via an automated service, they have to agree to the terms of that service. Adding that functionality is possible, sure, but it is also potentially against the terms of either Discord, Libera, OFTC, or any combination thereof. We'd also have to reconfi <clipped message>
[2023-11-28 21:28:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| To be honest, this opens up a whole 'nother can of worms. When you create a user account, even if it's just to represent that user via an automated service, they have to agree to the terms of that service. Adding that functionality is possible, sure, but it is also potentially against the terms of either Discord, Libera, OFTC, or any combination thereof. We'd also have to reconfi <clipped message>
[2023-11-28 21:28:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| rm terms for every existing member fo the discord server, which is no trivial matter. In short, it puts each of our communities at risk of termination, and possible legal ramifications if we don't get it right. And then there's the whol COPPA thing, and its EU/UK equivalents. We don't know for certain that everyone in this server is over the age of majority (in fact, we know for  <clipped message>
[2023-11-28 21:28:12] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| rm terms for every existing member fo the discord server, which is no trivial matter. In short, it puts each of our communities at risk of termination, and possible legal ramifications if we don't get it right. And then there's the whol COPPA thing, and its EU/UK equivalents. We don't know for certain that everyone in this server is over the age of majority (in fact, we know for  <clipped message>
[2023-11-28 21:28:12] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| certain that there are younger persons here), which adds a further complication - both legally and technically.
[2023-11-28 21:28:13] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| certain that there are younger persons here), which adds a further complication - both legally and technically.
[2023-11-28 21:28:33] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ask php people for advice
[2023-11-28 21:28:33] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ask php people for advice
[2023-11-28 21:28:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| they run exactly just that stuff
[2023-11-28 21:28:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| they run exactly just that stuff
[2023-11-28 21:28:55] <Lucifer_arma> I think you're overthinking it.  THey don't have to register with NickServ
[2023-11-28 21:28:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think you're overthinking it.  THey don't have to register with NickServ
[2023-11-28 21:28:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| they have irc channels bridged to discord
[2023-11-28 21:28:59] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| they have irc channels bridged to discord
[2023-11-28 21:29:19] <Lucifer_arma> also, it's the bot owner that would be making those agreements, to the extent that they're there.
[2023-11-28 21:29:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, it's the bot owner that would be making those agreements, to the extent that they're there.
[2023-11-28 21:29:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you're talking about a *separate* entity, however, this is not so legally bound. The bot is a wholly separate entity to the discord user, thus discord has no legal quarrel
[2023-11-28 21:29:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you're talking about a *separate* entity, however, this is not so legally bound. The bot is a wholly separate entity to the discord user, thus discord has no legal quarrel
[2023-11-28 21:29:39] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| on the discord side you cant have virtual users anyways, this is working via webhooks
[2023-11-28 21:29:39] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| on the discord side you cant have virtual users anyways, this is working via webhooks
[2023-11-28 21:29:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| already
[2023-11-28 21:29:48] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| already
[2023-11-28 21:30:58] <Lucifer_arma> you'd probably still want a prefix of some sort in the username to indicate they're from the bot, just to CYA.  So if the actual person joins with an irc client, they'd use the unprefixed name, because it's their name
[2023-11-28 21:30:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you'd probably still want a prefix of some sort in the username to indicate they're from the bot, just to CYA.  So if the actual person joins with an irc client, they'd use the unprefixed name, because it's their name
[2023-11-28 21:32:09] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah its already prefixed for the bridge messages
[2023-11-28 21:32:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah its already prefixed for the bridge messages
[2023-11-28 21:32:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| on discord its done via webhooks, its pretty limited
[2023-11-28 21:32:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| on discord its done via webhooks, its pretty limited
[2023-11-28 21:33:13] <Lucifer_arma> discord is technically a mess.  I think they don't want to open their source code because they're legitimately afraid they'll get laughed into oblivion
[2023-11-28 21:33:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| discord is technically a mess.  I think they don't want to open their source code because they're legitimately afraid they'll get laughed into oblivion
[2023-11-28 21:33:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf its built on electron, so you already know they're lazy fucks
[2023-11-28 21:33:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf its built on electron, so you already know they're lazy fucks
[2023-11-28 21:34:25] <Lucifer_arma> the only reason discord was able to get as big as it did was because it had commercial/investor backing.  It doesn't *do* anything that isn't available elsewhere in a free and open way
[2023-11-28 21:34:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the only reason discord was able to get as big as it did was because it had commercial/investor backing.  It doesn't *do* anything that isn't available elsewhere in a free and open way
[2023-11-28 21:34:47] <Lucifer_arma> same as zoom, except that zoom isn't too bad, technically.
[2023-11-28 21:34:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| same as zoom, except that zoom isn't too bad, technically.
[2023-11-28 21:35:12] <Lucifer_arma> it's why android and server linux are both huge, but desktop linux is still niche
[2023-11-28 21:35:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's why android and server linux are both huge, but desktop linux is still niche
[2023-11-28 21:36:03] <Lucifer_arma> biggest problem FOSS projects have had over the years is not paying enough attention to the social parts of software
[2023-11-28 21:36:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| biggest problem FOSS projects have had over the years is not paying enough attention to the social parts of software
[2023-11-28 21:36:11] <Lucifer_arma> we use the software our friends use
[2023-11-28 21:36:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we use the software our friends use
[2023-11-28 21:37:20] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its a modified electron
[2023-11-28 21:37:21] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its a modified electron
[2023-11-28 21:37:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| modified own fork of electron
[2023-11-28 21:37:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| modified own fork of electron
[2023-11-28 21:37:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| discord is just your average company
[2023-11-28 21:37:47] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| discord is just your average company
[2023-11-28 21:37:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| mtims itself and its not really encrypted
[2023-11-28 21:37:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| mtims itself and its not really encrypted
[2023-11-28 21:38:34] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but if you combined irc + mumble + skype, you get discord
[2023-11-28 21:38:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, but if you combined irc + mumble + skype, you get discord
[2023-11-28 21:38:50] <Lucifer_arma> there were clients that did stuff like that.  I thought mumble covered everything
[2023-11-28 21:38:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there were clients that did stuff like that.  I thought mumble covered everything
[2023-11-28 21:38:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about slack
[2023-11-28 21:38:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about slack
[2023-11-28 21:39:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its when you combine discord and work apparently
[2023-11-28 21:39:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its when you combine discord and work apparently
[2023-11-28 21:39:12] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| maybe microsoft lync/skype for business?
[2023-11-28 21:39:13] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| maybe microsoft lync/skype for business?
[2023-11-28 21:39:21] <Lucifer_arma> but without investor backing, there's no reliable network.  And that's what gets you discord.  It's the network that matters
[2023-11-28 21:39:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but without investor backing, there's no reliable network.  And that's what gets you discord.  It's the network that matters
[2023-11-28 21:40:02] <Lucifer_arma> I was on discord for a little while a bit over a year ago, and I gave up because irc is technically superior for what irc does
[2023-11-28 21:40:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was on discord for a little while a bit over a year ago, and I gave up because irc is technically superior for what irc does
[2023-11-28 21:40:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2023-11-28 21:40:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[2023-11-28 21:40:20] <Lucifer_arma> also, I didn't like the closed source crap on my computer
[2023-11-28 21:40:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, I didn't like the closed source crap on my computer
[2023-11-28 21:40:40] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| there are open source clients but its not allowed by the tos so its laughable
[2023-11-28 21:40:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| there are open source clients but its not allowed by the tos so its laughable
[2023-11-28 21:41:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can use libraries designed for bots with your regular discord user but thats also a bannable offense
[2023-11-28 21:41:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you can use libraries designed for bots with your regular discord user but thats also a bannable offense
[2023-11-28 21:41:31] <Lucifer_arma> these irc networks all have some kind of investor backing, but I don't know who's backing libera
[2023-11-28 21:41:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| these irc networks all have some kind of investor backing, but I don't know who's backing libera
[2023-11-28 21:41:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| who do you think is backing efnet
[2023-11-28 21:41:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| who do you think is backing efnet
[2023-11-28 21:42:07] <Lucifer_arma> isn't it eff?
[2023-11-28 21:42:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| isn't it eff?
[2023-11-28 21:42:31] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ok i have no idea
[2023-11-28 21:42:32] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ok i have no idea
[2023-11-28 21:44:53] <Lucifer_arma> no, it's not
[2023-11-28 21:44:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, it's not
[2023-11-28 21:45:09] <Lucifer_arma> it looks volunteer-run, but it's also the wild west
[2023-11-28 21:45:09] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it looks volunteer-run, but it's also the wild west
[2023-11-28 21:47:43] <Lucifer_arma> I'll bet it was microsoft supporting discord in xbox live that made discord blow up
[2023-11-28 21:47:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'll bet it was microsoft supporting discord in xbox live that made discord blow up
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[2023-11-28 22:51:18] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| We have Teams already
[2023-11-28 22:51:19] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| We have Teams already

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[2023-11-29 06:02:20] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: I'm neither confirming nor denying that I might have done something like that at some point in the past.
[2023-11-29 06:02:21] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: I'm neither confirming nor denying that I might have done something like that at some point in the past.
[2023-11-29 06:03:07] <Z-Man> I did try to go fanless passivley cooled by attaching a chimney to the back of the case, the idea being that the rising warm air would suffice to get enough cool air in at the bottom.
[2023-11-29 06:03:08] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| I did try to go fanless passivley cooled by attaching a chimney to the back of the case, the idea being that the rising warm air would suffice to get enough cool air in at the bottom.
[2023-11-29 06:04:02] <Z-Man> Either my building skills or the temperature difference were not sufficient, however. Also, it would have looked really stupid.
[2023-11-29 06:04:02] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Either my building skills or the temperature difference were not sufficient, however. Also, it would have looked really stupid.
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[2023-11-29 10:27:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| this is before teams existed lol
[2023-11-29 10:27:05] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| this is before teams existed lol
[2023-11-29 10:32:14] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| what's before Teams existed? Discord was only about a year before Teams and Teams pretty quickly surpassed both
[2023-11-29 10:32:14] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| what's before Teams existed? Discord was only about a year before Teams and Teams pretty quickly surpassed both
[2023-11-29 10:33:06] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| and slack?
[2023-11-29 10:33:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| and slack?
[2023-11-29 10:45:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Skype for Business was the big thing for org comms, before that it was Lync. Lync was better.
[2023-11-29 10:45:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Skype for Business was the big thing for org comms, before that it was Lync. Lync was better.
[2023-11-29 10:46:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Teamspeak was the consumer market lion
[2023-11-29 10:46:06] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Teamspeak was the consumer market lion
[2023-11-29 10:46:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I *think* there was something between TS and Discord/Slack/Teams, btu I'm damned if I can remember what
[2023-11-29 10:46:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I *think* there was something between TS and Discord/Slack/Teams, btu I'm damned if I can remember what
[2023-11-29 10:46:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| and I don't mean mobile-only platforms like kik and telegram
[2023-11-29 10:46:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| and I don't mean mobile-only platforms like kik and telegram
[2023-11-29 10:59:09] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:olive| maybe Ventrilo but that was very similar to ts
[2023-11-29 10:59:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:olive| maybe Ventrilo but that was very similar to ts
[2023-11-29 13:29:27] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:Deso| a little different, but kind of the rise of Groupme/Whatsapp/etc. in the middle there
[2023-11-29 13:29:27] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:Deso| a little different, but kind of the rise of Groupme/Whatsapp/etc. in the middle there
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[2023-11-29 19:53:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh interesting
[2023-11-29 19:53:05] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh interesting
[2023-11-29 19:53:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont know groupme
[2023-11-29 19:53:08] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont know groupme
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[2023-11-29 23:06:04] <Lucifer_arma> how does a raspberry pi without ntp set its time?
[2023-11-29 23:06:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| how does a raspberry pi without ntp set its time?
[2023-11-29 23:19:29] <Lucifer_arma> nvm.  Turns out systemd provides an ntp client
[2023-11-29 23:19:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| nvm.  Turns out systemd provides an ntp client
[2023-11-29 23:48:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its a sntp client, very basic, dont recommend it
[2023-11-29 23:48:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its a sntp client, very basic, dont recommend it
[2023-11-29 23:54:20] <Lucifer_arma> I don't need much, just a time sync
[2023-11-29 23:54:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't need much, just a time sync
[2023-11-29 23:55:31] <Lucifer_arma> I just directed the worker nodes to sync from the scheduler.  That should keep all their clocks in sync
[2023-11-29 23:55:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I just directed the worker nodes to sync from the scheduler.  That should keep all their clocks in sync

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[2023-11-30 11:31:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay then
[2023-11-30 11:31:12] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay then
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