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[2024-01-01 18:52:51] <Lucifer_arma> well, my roommate has moved out, and I am sitting in my living room for the first time in a long time knowing that I can just be here without having to deal with some tone-deaf person who doesn't know when a conversation is over
[2024-01-01 18:52:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, my roommate has moved out, and I am sitting in my living room for the first time in a long time knowing that I can just be here without having to deal with some tone-deaf person who doesn't know when a conversation is over
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[2024-01-04 16:29:24] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| My game has brokened
[2024-01-04 16:29:25] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| My game has brokened
[2024-01-04 16:31:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| how so?
[2024-01-04 16:32:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| how so?
[2024-01-04 16:36:05] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Keeps freezing. I'm pretty sure it's not my internet, everything else works just fine.
[2024-01-04 16:36:05] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Keeps freezing. I'm pretty sure it's not my internet, everything else works just fine.
[2024-01-04 16:36:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Armagetron is extremely sensitive to internet hiccups. All the same, it could be something else, what sort of setup are you on?
[2024-01-04 16:36:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Armagetron is extremely sensitive to internet hiccups. All the same, it could be something else, what sort of setup are you on?
[2024-01-04 16:38:10] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Uh. Lenovo Thinkbook 5, running the game from a random thumbdrive I found in a drawer. (I can't install things directly to the laptop bc of all the anti-virus software my dad installed)
[2024-01-04 16:38:11] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Uh. Lenovo Thinkbook 5, running the game from a random thumbdrive I found in a drawer. (I can't install things directly to the laptop bc of all the anti-virus software my dad installed)
[2024-01-04 16:39:16] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| And I have a Starlink router on the other side of the wall from me
[2024-01-04 16:39:16] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| And I have a Starlink router on the other side of the wall from me
[2024-01-04 16:39:28] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| wait, you're on starlink?
[2024-01-04 16:39:28] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| wait, you're on starlink?
[2024-01-04 16:39:32] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| yeah
[2024-01-04 16:39:32] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| yeah
[2024-01-04 16:39:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, no wonder
[2024-01-04 16:39:32] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, no wonder
[2024-01-04 16:39:39] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| oh?
[2024-01-04 16:39:40] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| oh?
[2024-01-04 16:39:54] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| those freezes are most likely packets dropping as your dishy switches to the next satellite in teh chain
[2024-01-04 16:39:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| those freezes are most likely packets dropping as your dishy switches to the next satellite in teh chain
[2024-01-04 16:40:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| like I said, armagetron is *extremely* sensitive to internet hiccups
[2024-01-04 16:40:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| like I said, armagetron is *extremely* sensitive to internet hiccups
[2024-01-04 16:40:23] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Ah, ok.
[2024-01-04 16:40:23] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Ah, ok.
[2024-01-04 16:40:43] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| So I just wait?
[2024-01-04 16:40:43] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| So I just wait?
[2024-01-04 16:41:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a chance you could compile it yourself and loop the communication stuff to force each packet to be sent a few times, but that probably won't stop the freezing entirely.
[2024-01-04 16:41:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a chance you could compile it yourself and loop the communication stuff to force each packet to be sent a few times, but that probably won't stop the freezing entirely.
[2024-01-04 16:41:49] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Uh... no, waiting won't fix it I don't think. Do you have the option of trialling a 4g connection? Like, using your phone as a hotspot?
[2024-01-04 16:41:49] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Uh... no, waiting won't fix it I don't think. Do you have the option of trialling a 4g connection? Like, using your phone as a hotspot?
[2024-01-04 16:42:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| if that behaviour stops when using 4g, then ya definitely starlink
[2024-01-04 16:42:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| if that behaviour stops when using 4g, then ya definitely starlink
[2024-01-04 16:42:35] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| My phone is on 2g mobile data right now, I hit my data cap last week
[2024-01-04 16:42:36] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| My phone is on 2g mobile data right now, I hit my data cap last week
[2024-01-04 16:42:43] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| should be fine for testing
[2024-01-04 16:42:43] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| should be fine for testing
[2024-01-04 16:42:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| armagetron doesn't need much more than a few kb of bandwidth
[2024-01-04 16:42:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| armagetron doesn't need much more than a few kb of bandwidth
[2024-01-04 16:43:01] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| ok
[2024-01-04 16:43:02] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| ok
[2024-01-04 16:43:34] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| *new problem, where the heck did I put my phone...*
[2024-01-04 16:43:35] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| *new problem, where the heck did I put my phone...*
[2024-01-04 16:43:58] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| see, this is where you should make like us boomers and keep a landline handy. I lose my phone *constantly*
[2024-01-04 16:43:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| see, this is where you should make like us boomers and keep a landline handy. I lose my phone *constantly*
[2024-01-04 16:44:32] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Actually, we do have a landline. That works 50% of the time
[2024-01-04 16:44:32] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Actually, we do have a landline. That works 50% of the time
[2024-01-04 16:45:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| guess its a generational thing. When I lose my phone I don't bother hunting, I just call it
[2024-01-04 16:45:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| guess its a generational thing. When I lose my phone I don't bother hunting, I just call it
[2024-01-04 16:47:36] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Yeah for some reason it won't call my phone
[2024-01-04 16:47:37] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Yeah for some reason it won't call my phone
[2024-01-04 16:47:57] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| or maybe it's my phone
[2024-01-04 16:47:57] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| or maybe it's my phone
[2024-01-04 16:48:05] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| your phone's battery died
[2024-01-04 16:48:06] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| your phone's battery died
[2024-01-04 16:48:41] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| No, it just refuses to receive any calls from number that weren't on my old phone.
[2024-01-04 16:48:42] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| No, it just refuses to receive any calls from number that weren't on my old phone.
[2024-01-04 16:59:15] <armagetron-bridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Found it.
[2024-01-04 16:59:15] <armagetronbridge> 05discord:grape_juice8347| Found it.
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[2024-01-04 22:49:01] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2024-01-05 23:37:40] <Lucifer_arma> hi
[2024-01-05 23:37:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| hi
[2024-01-05 23:37:50] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hello
[2024-01-05 23:37:50] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hello
[2024-01-05 23:37:53] <Lucifer_arma> ping
[2024-01-05 23:37:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ping
[2024-01-05 23:37:58] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| pong
[2024-01-05 23:37:58] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:ninjapotato1080| pong
[2024-01-05 23:37:59] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| pong
[2024-01-05 23:38:00] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| pong
[2024-01-05 23:38:27] <Lucifer_arma> ty
[2024-01-05 23:38:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ty
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[2024-01-06 14:48:36] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| I hope everyone’s doing well
[2024-01-06 14:48:36] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:Rx.Luigi (Best LDF Player Ever)| I hope everyone’s doing well
[2024-01-06 18:07:58] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| welcome back @duckyonquack.999
[2024-01-06 18:07:58] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| welcome back @duckyonquack.999
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[2024-01-07 11:46:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:NoBrain| wb luigi
[2024-01-07 11:46:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:NoBrain| wb luigi
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[2024-01-08 02:10:16] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:cdoll| Hi, I used to play a long time ago. I played mainly Mud puddle Swampland. ๐
[2024-01-08 02:10:16] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:cdoll| Hi, I used to play a long time ago. I played mainly Mud puddle Swampland. ๐
[2024-01-08 02:12:18] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I recognise the name. Welcome back, although I don't think those servers exist any more @cdoll
[2024-01-08 02:12:18] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I recognise the name. Welcome back, although I don't think those servers exist any more @cdoll
[2024-01-08 02:16:50] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:cdoll| Oh no, that's terrible to learn.
[2024-01-08 02:16:51] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:cdoll| Oh no, that's terrible to learn.
[2024-01-08 02:17:02] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:cdoll| I had so much fun playing this game as a teen.
[2024-01-08 02:17:02] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:cdoll| I had so much fun playing this game as a teen.
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[2024-01-08 06:32:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Mud puddle should be up again soon, it was one of KevinH's servers. Couple of those servers had some shuffling around of files and stuff to do, I've just been preoccupied with work and mental health and suchlike.
[2024-01-08 06:32:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Mud puddle should be up again soon, it was one of KevinH's servers. Couple of those servers had some shuffling around of files and stuff to do, I've just been preoccupied with work and mental health and suchlike.
[2024-01-08 07:17:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh whoops, it was already up but the machine itself is down. I'll go fix that today
[2024-01-08 07:17:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh whoops, it was already up but the machine itself is down. I'll go fix that today
[2024-01-08 09:08:05] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| all back up @cdoll
[2024-01-08 09:08:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| all back up @cdoll
[2024-01-08 09:13:45] <armagetron-bridge> 11discord:cdoll| Hey that's awesome. I'll be sure to check it out when I have a moment. I appreciate it.
[2024-01-08 09:13:45] <armagetronbridge> 11discord:cdoll| Hey that's awesome. I'll be sure to check it out when I have a moment. I appreciate it.
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[2024-01-08 21:03:38] <armagetron-bridge> 09discord:acoustyk| How do I play on the server? It won't let me in
[2024-01-08 21:03:38] <armagetronbridge> 09discord:acoustyk| How do I play on the server? It won't let me in
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[2024-01-09 11:15:34] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @acoustyk Which server do you mean? Some servers are for pre-organised matches only but you should be able to get into the server, just not play on it. Most other servers you can play on normally without having to add yourself to the pre-organised match list. If you do want to play in a pre-organised match, say so here and I or someone will help you with the commands to do that.
[2024-01-09 11:15:34] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @acoustyk Which server do you mean? Some servers are for pre-organised matches only but you should be able to get into the server, just not play on it. Most other servers you can play on normally without having to add yourself to the pre-organised match list. If you do want to play in a pre-organised match, say so here and I or someone will help you with the commands to do that.
[2024-01-09 11:17:09] <armagetron-bridge> 09discord:acoustyk| I'll check later. I can't believe this game is still in active development. ๐ I remember playing it on mandrake linux back around 2002-2003
[2024-01-09 11:17:09] <armagetronbridge> 09discord:acoustyk| I'll check later. I can't believe this game is still in active development. ๐ I remember playing it on mandrake linux back around 2002-2003
[2024-01-09 11:19:12] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Nice! well "active" is debatable but yeah it is just about still going. Don't be shy about playing in matches, the more players we can get, the better.
[2024-01-09 11:19:12] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Nice! well "active" is debatable but yeah it is just about still going. Don't be shy about playing in matches, the more players we can get, the better.
[2024-01-09 11:19:53] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Ping me if you wanna practice sumo
[2024-01-09 11:19:53] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Ping me if you wanna practice sumo
[2024-01-09 11:20:41] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also check this https://discord.com/channels/209759416604426242/708372534428565596
[2024-01-09 11:20:41] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Also check this https://discord.com/channels/209759416604426242/708372534428565596
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[2024-01-10 00:42:58] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://makeymakey.com/blogs/blog/fun-fact-friday-how-many-keypresses#:~:text=Most%20keyboards%20cannot%20handle%20more,are%20being%20pressed%20at%20once%3F
[2024-01-10 00:42:59] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://makeymakey.com/blogs/blog/fun-fact-friday-how-many-keypresses#:~:text=Most%20keyboards%20cannot%20handle%20more,are%20being%20pressed%20at%20once%3F
[2024-01-10 01:19:40] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I posted that above so you can test your keyboard bindings. Sometimes you might notice a a turn drop even though you are sure you pressed the key. I think most commonly you did in fact press the key, but perhaps you didn't fully lift your finger from a previous key press and that might have blocked your turn (or pressed the second key too soon before lifting the previous). Somethin to think about.
[2024-01-10 01:19:40] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I posted that above so you can test your keyboard bindings. Sometimes you might notice a a turn drop even though you are sure you pressed the key. I think most commonly you did in fact press the key, but perhaps you didn't fully lift your finger from a previous key press and that might have blocked your turn (or pressed the second key too soon before lifting the previous). Somethin to think about.
[2024-01-10 01:22:43] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've mentioned it before, but low end keyboards sometimes have less than ideal key matrices (multiplexing) and you can't always know if your keybindings have too many keys mapped to the same bus.
[2024-01-10 01:22:44] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I've mentioned it before, but low end keyboards sometimes have less than ideal key matrices (multiplexing) and you can't always know if your keybindings have too many keys mapped to the same bus.
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[2024-01-11 18:06:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| hey what's the status on macos builds?
[2024-01-11 18:06:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| hey what's the status on macos builds?
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[2024-01-12 10:42:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why it says retrocycles supports macos but its a empty depot?
[2024-01-12 10:42:48] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why it says retrocycles supports macos but its a empty depot?
[2024-01-12 10:42:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| on steam
[2024-01-12 10:42:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| on steam
[2024-01-12 11:30:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @zman_0 I thought macos builds were working now?
[2024-01-12 11:30:10] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @zman_0 I thought macos builds were working now?
[2024-01-12 11:31:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| found out why, there's a configuration specified for macos in the app
[2024-01-12 11:31:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| found out why, there's a configuration specified for macos in the app
[2024-01-12 11:31:32] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| well
[2024-01-12 11:31:32] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| well
[2024-01-12 11:31:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| there's a empty macos depot
[2024-01-12 11:31:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| there's a empty macos depot
[2024-01-12 11:31:49] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| so thats why its compatible and installable on steam
[2024-01-12 11:31:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| so thats why its compatible and installable on steam
[2024-01-12 11:35:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 Z-Man: check in your steamworks control panel about the macos availability
[2024-01-12 11:35:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 Z-Man: check in your steamworks control panel about the macos availability
[2024-01-12 11:35:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| btw he doesnt get pinged on irc because the discord username is different @northernscrub
[2024-01-12 11:35:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| btw he doesnt get pinged on irc because the discord username is different @northernscrub
[2024-01-12 11:40:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @northernscrub MacOS folder in the armagetronad sources weren't changed in 14 years
[2024-01-12 11:40:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @northernscrub MacOS folder in the armagetronad sources weren't changed in 14 years
[2024-01-12 11:40:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| last changed 14 years ago
[2024-01-12 11:40:37] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| last changed 14 years ago
[2024-01-12 11:46:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I forget what changed specifically, but I'm pretty sure z-man put up a new build process outside of the existing svn. In fact I'm not sure what repo solution we're using atm, I think it might be gitlab?
[2024-01-12 11:46:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I forget what changed specifically, but I'm pretty sure z-man put up a new build process outside of the existing svn. In fact I'm not sure what repo solution we're using atm, I think it might be gitlab?
[2024-01-12 11:52:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| can i help?
[2024-01-12 11:52:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| can i help?
[2024-01-12 12:15:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I mean, it's foss, so sure. I'm not sureif the process is any different with gitlab, mind
[2024-01-12 12:15:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I mean, it's foss, so sure. I'm not sureif the process is any different with gitlab, mind
[2024-01-12 12:15:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| might be a good idea to wait for nelg or z-man to chime in thoughj
[2024-01-12 12:15:26] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| might be a good idea to wait for nelg or z-man to chime in thoughj
[2024-01-12 12:17:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| nelg got mac builds of 0.2.9.1
[2024-01-12 12:18:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| nelg got mac builds of 0.2.9.1
[2024-01-12 12:33:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @wwnelg your mac build fails to authenticate to forums for some reason
[2024-01-12 12:33:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @wwnelg your mac build fails to authenticate to forums for some reason
[2024-01-12 12:34:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @armanelgtron
[2024-01-12 12:34:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @armanelgtron
[2024-01-12 16:55:00] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, we have macOS builds, but so far only on the alpha branch. @Juesto : You need to go to the properties (sprocket icon), "Betas" tab and select "Alpha". Dunno why steam advertises it as generally available, that certainly was not the intention.
[2024-01-12 16:55:00] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, we have macOS builds, but so far only on the alpha branch. @Juesto : You need to go to the properties (sprocket icon), "Betas" tab and select "Alpha". Dunno why steam advertises it as generally available, that certainly was not the intention.
[2024-01-12 17:02:44] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, I don't have the general macOS checkboxes checked. Steam is being stupid all on its own. It's probably doing that because I had to set up a launch option for macOS, or the alpha builds would not work... these are branch independent. Bummer.
[2024-01-12 17:02:44] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, I don't have the general macOS checkboxes checked. Steam is being stupid all on its own. It's probably doing that because I had to set up a launch option for macOS, or the alpha builds would not work... these are branch independent. Bummer.
[2024-01-12 17:11:43] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah, try removing the launch options, it also claims there's a depot for macos assigned, its not just steam client being stupid
[2024-01-12 17:11:43] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yeah, try removing the launch options, it also claims there's a depot for macos assigned, its not just steam client being stupid
[2024-01-12 17:12:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh that explains it, so there's mac but not for the public branch
[2024-01-12 17:12:08] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh that explains it, so there's mac but not for the public branch
[2024-01-12 21:08:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 i just noticed, the retrocycles alpha uses old features such as config in var and the bitmap texture for the font instead of vector
[2024-01-12 21:08:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 i just noticed, the retrocycles alpha uses old features such as config in var and the bitmap texture for the font instead of vector
[2024-01-12 21:08:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| why is that?
[2024-01-12 21:08:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| why is that?
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[2024-01-13 03:54:53] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @Juesto The new features are only in the 'experimental' branch. We constantly get stuck getting that into a releasable state. The easy blame target is that people left the project with unfinished work that is hard to understand and fix up because C++.
[2024-01-13 03:54:53] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @Juesto The new features are only in the 'experimental' branch. We constantly get stuck getting that into a releasable state. The easy blame target is that people left the project with unfinished work that is hard to understand and fix up because C++.
[2024-01-13 04:52:32] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Just curious, but is it possible to slowly backport all the good bits from .4 to .2? Obviously sound is broken in .4 but sound in .2 is fine without changes. So what are the major differences between the two? New network/rubber code and cockpits? The font? Zones?
[2024-01-13 04:52:32] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Just curious, but is it possible to slowly backport all the good bits from .4 to .2? Obviously sound is broken in .4 but sound in .2 is fine without changes. So what are the major differences between the two? New network/rubber code and cockpits? The font? Zones?
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[2024-01-13 08:02:50] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As far as I know, this is already happening
[2024-01-13 08:02:50] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As far as I know, this is already happening
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[2024-01-13 23:17:36] <Lucifer_arma> I think sound is mostly fixed in 0.4. The only issue left that I'm aware of is the zone noises at the beginning of the round, but I haven't seen those being an issue at all when I've played recently
[2024-01-13 23:17:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think sound is mostly fixed in 0.4. The only issue left that I'm aware of is the zone noises at the beginning of the round, but I haven't seen those being an issue at all when I've played recently
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[2024-01-14 02:42:19] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I actually don't mind the countdown. I replaced the number sounds with a clock "tick" and a short "beep" for GO, and it's really the best, least distracting way to keep the functional part of the sound event without having them overlap weirdly.
[2024-01-14 02:42:19] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I actually don't mind the countdown. I replaced the number sounds with a clock "tick" and a short "beep" for GO, and it's really the best, least distracting way to keep the functional part of the sound event without having them overlap weirdly.
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[2024-01-14 08:17:19] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
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[2024-01-14 13:51:39] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 how far from release is the mac version?
[2024-01-14 13:51:39] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 how far from release is the mac version?
[2024-01-14 14:33:53] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @Juesto There are no currently known issues. I just started the release process by merging to the beta_0.2.9 branch, I just haven't gotten around to announcing it ๐
[2024-01-14 14:33:53] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @Juesto There are no currently known issues. I just started the release process by merging to the beta_0.2.9 branch, I just haven't gotten around to announcing it ๐
[2024-01-14 14:35:46] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Lucifer_arma: We could decouple the timing of the countdown sound from the actual timer. That would make it wrong, but maybe that is better?
[2024-01-14 14:35:46] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Lucifer_arma: We could decouple the timing of the countdown sound from the actual timer. That would make it wrong, but maybe that is better?
[2024-01-14 14:41:31] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @amazing_stories I'm not doing much backporting. I'm still pretending to myself that 0.4 is going to get released and take over and that any backporting therefore would be futile.
[2024-01-14 14:41:32] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @amazing_stories I'm not doing much backporting. I'm still pretending to myself that 0.4 is going to get released and take over and that any backporting therefore would be futile.
[2024-01-14 14:41:32] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Of course, we should be open to admitting that in fact sty+ct+ap is the future (I mean, serverside, they already rule the world) and throw everything of use into that branch, bury the rest.
[2024-01-14 14:41:32] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Of course, we should be open to admitting that in fact sty+ct+ap is the future (I mean, serverside, they already rule the world) and throw everything of use into that branch, bury the rest.
[2024-01-14 14:41:33] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| We already concluded that should a move to a proper engine happen, much of the new stuff in 0.4 is obsolete anyway. (But such a move would not be accepted, I don't think. It is impossible to keep the feel of the game intact. The camera will behave ever so slightly differently, even if we take over all of the quirky equations from the current camera.)
[2024-01-14 14:41:33] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| We already concluded that should a move to a proper engine happen, much of the new stuff in 0.4 is obsolete anyway. (But such a move would not be accepted, I don't think. It is impossible to keep the feel of the game intact. The camera will behave ever so slightly differently, even if we take over all of the quirky equations from the current camera.)
[2024-01-14 14:48:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah thanks
[2024-01-14 14:48:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah thanks
[2024-01-14 14:49:25] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| so no improvements, the standard has been established and very little changes should be done?
[2024-01-14 14:49:26] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| so no improvements, the standard has been established and very little changes should be done?
[2024-01-14 14:51:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about making sty+ct+ap the default armagetronad experience then?
[2024-01-14 14:51:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about making sty+ct+ap the default armagetronad experience then?
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[2024-01-14 16:12:25] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Could happen. I plan to re-fork it myself, with merge fixes (they borked the formatting of some files a while back, making all merges with 0.2.9 painful to impossible; I worked out how to mend that) and where the builds don't break. From there, it would be only a tiny step to publish these builds along with the others.
[2024-01-14 16:12:26] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Could happen. I plan to re-fork it myself, with merge fixes (they borked the formatting of some files a while back, making all merges with 0.2.9 painful to impossible; I worked out how to mend that) and where the builds don't break. From there, it would be only a tiny step to publish these builds along with the others.
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[2024-01-14 16:23:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Excellent!
[2024-01-14 16:23:43] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Excellent!
[2024-01-14 16:24:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| now the question is when
[2024-01-14 16:24:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| now the question is when
[2024-01-14 19:48:14] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| 2026
[2024-01-14 19:48:14] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| 2026
[2024-01-14 19:48:30] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| ๐
[2024-01-14 19:48:31] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| ๐
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[2024-01-14 22:04:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| really? :|
[2024-01-14 22:04:49] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| really? :|
[2024-01-14 22:47:21] <Lucifer_arma> 2026 is hopelessly optimistic
[2024-01-14 22:47:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| 2026 is hopelessly optimistic
[2024-01-14 22:48:17] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not willing to concede, necessarily, not that it's a competition. There's been enough cross-pollinization that I honesly think we can still assimilate sty+blah into 0.4.
[2024-01-14 22:48:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not willing to concede, necessarily, not that it's a competition. There's been enough cross-pollinization that I honesly think we can still assimilate sty+blah into 0.4.
[2024-01-14 22:48:49] <Lucifer_arma> I've definitely decided to put lua in there and remove the ruby stuff (it doesn't work anyway), and I think most/all of what's in sty+blah can be done with proper lua hooks
[2024-01-14 22:48:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've definitely decided to put lua in there and remove the ruby stuff (it doesn't work anyway), and I think most/all of what's in sty+blah can be done with proper lua hooks
[2024-01-14 22:49:28] <Lucifer_arma> I just happen to be in a sad position where I really need to get some new source of income or I won't be able to make rent next month (or I will, but I won't make bills right after that)
[2024-01-14 22:49:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I just happen to be in a sad position where I really need to get some new source of income or I won't be able to make rent next month (or I will, but I won't make bills right after that)
[2024-01-14 22:50:46] <Lucifer_arma> adding lua won't be terribly difficult, since this is exactly what it's designed for. I'll make a singleton class for the lua instance, and then it can be dropped anywhere it's needed.
[2024-01-14 22:50:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| adding lua won't be terribly difficult, since this is exactly what it's designed for. I'll make a singleton class for the lua instance, and then it can be dropped anywhere it's needed.
[2024-01-14 22:51:06] <Lucifer_arma> being a tiny c library, it's the fastest scripting language we can integrate, and it's literally designed to be an embedded language
[2024-01-14 22:51:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| being a tiny c library, it's the fastest scripting language we can integrate, and it's literally designed to be an embedded language
[2024-01-14 22:52:19] <Lucifer_arma> I want to round up all the current "scripting" hooks we have (executing external scripts) and turn the hooks themselves into lua scripts. Then, whatever external scripts people have written can be replaced with new lua scripts that'll run better/faster/hopefully
[2024-01-14 22:52:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I want to round up all the current "scripting" hooks we have (executing external scripts) and turn the hooks themselves into lua scripts. Then, whatever external scripts people have written can be replaced with new lua scripts that'll run better/faster/hopefully
[2024-01-14 22:53:35] <Lucifer_arma> Then I want to add a generic object infrastructure that can be used to make things like balls and flags and stuff, and just add lua hooks to everything. That'll give us CTF.
[2024-01-14 22:53:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Then I want to add a generic object infrastructure that can be used to make things like balls and flags and stuff, and just add lua hooks to everything. That'll give us CTF.
[2024-01-14 22:54:32] <Lucifer_arma> after the first couple of hours (read: days of hours) of getting the first round of hooks working, the rest should nearly write themselves
[2024-01-14 22:54:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| after the first couple of hours (read: days of hours) of getting the first round of hooks working, the rest should nearly write themselves
[2024-01-14 22:56:19] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: @zman_0: I'm not willing to do anything to "fix" the countdown because I don't think it's broken, necessarily. It was a nice idea, I thought, mostly because it was mine (the audio part, anyway). I think the decision is to either put the Final Decided Upon Sounds in, or remove the audio.
[2024-01-14 22:56:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: @zman_0: I'm not willing to do anything to "fix" the countdown because I don't think it's broken, necessarily. It was a nice idea, I thought, mostly because it was mine (the audio part, anyway). I think the decision is to either put the Final Decided Upon Sounds in, or remove the audio.
[2024-01-14 22:56:47] <Lucifer_arma> the current sounds were always just a placeholder, just like the music that's there right now, created just to make the code work that implemented it
[2024-01-14 22:56:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the current sounds were always just a placeholder, just like the music that's there right now, created just to make the code work that implemented it
[2024-01-14 23:00:32] <Lucifer_arma> I was looking through everything back in November, but I was kinda busy with some other things at the time, and the time off I took at work ended up being taken up entirely by Landru/writing, so I didn't find the arma time I was hoping for
[2024-01-14 23:00:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was looking through everything back in November, but I was kinda busy with some other things at the time, and the time off I took at work ended up being taken up entirely by Landru/writing, so I didn't find the arma time I was hoping for
[2024-01-14 23:00:42] <Lucifer_arma> I'm going to take some more time off soon, but I might be spending that time looking for a job.
[2024-01-14 23:00:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm going to take some more time off soon, but I might be spending that time looking for a job.
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[2024-01-15 13:00:51] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: No pressure, obviously pysical life has priority.
[2024-01-15 13:00:51] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: No pressure, obviously pysical life has priority.
[2024-01-15 13:07:41] <Z-Man> Lua is great. It is simple; if you know any programming language, you already know most of lua, it's just a bit of different syntax. I'd suggest having a go with the sol Library: https://github.com/ThePhD/sol2 Kinda obvious because it's the first thing google suggests :) The author is a super passionate and talented C++ guy.
[2024-01-15 13:07:42] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lua is great. It is simple; if you know any programming language, you already know most of lua, it's just a bit of different syntax. I'd suggest having a go with the sol Library: https://github.com/ThePhD/sol2 Kinda obvious because it's the first thing google suggests :) The author is a super passionate and talented C++ guy.
[2024-01-15 13:09:29] <Z-Man> Neovim uses Lua as scripting language, and that is a proper beast. We should update the AI names, I doubt anyone knows what elm is any more.
[2024-01-15 13:09:29] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Neovim uses Lua as scripting language, and that is a proper beast. We should update the AI names, I doubt anyone knows what elm is any more.
[2024-01-15 13:14:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| The web lang? It's still pretty popular
[2024-01-15 13:14:57] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| The web lang? It's still pretty popular
[2024-01-15 13:16:13] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| The email client not so much, I don't think.
[2024-01-15 13:16:13] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| The email client not so much, I don't think.
[2024-01-15 13:20:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| where i can see the list of bots?
[2024-01-15 13:20:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| where i can see the list of bots?
[2024-01-15 13:21:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean ai names
[2024-01-15 13:21:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean ai names
[2024-01-15 13:26:11] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://gitlab.com/armagetronad/armagetronad/-/blob/trunk/config/aiplayers.cfg.in?ref_type=heads#L22
[2024-01-15 13:26:12] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://gitlab.com/armagetronad/armagetronad/-/blob/trunk/config/aiplayers.cfg.in?ref_type=heads#L22
[2024-01-15 13:28:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah hmm
[2024-01-15 13:28:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah hmm
[2024-01-15 13:28:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im seeing that windows 7, unreal 10 arent taking effect
[2024-01-15 13:28:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im seeing that windows 7, unreal 10 arent taking effect
[2024-01-15 13:28:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| because its taken as values
[2024-01-15 13:28:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| because its taken as values
[2024-01-15 13:29:07] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| they're intended to be values
[2024-01-15 13:29:07] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| they're intended to be values
[2024-01-15 13:29:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh whatever, i guess its a bit of a visual play for developers
[2024-01-15 13:29:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh whatever, i guess its a bit of a visual play for developers
[2024-01-15 13:29:30] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its confusing for someone just reading it casually
[2024-01-15 13:29:30] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its confusing for someone just reading it casually
[2024-01-15 13:29:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| tabs are a mess
[2024-01-15 13:29:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| tabs are a mess
[2024-01-15 13:29:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| indentation that is
[2024-01-15 13:29:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| indentation that is
[2024-01-15 13:30:37] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i think it's to do how the tabs are being handled yeah
[2024-01-15 13:30:37] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i think it's to do how the tabs are being handled yeah
[2024-01-15 13:31:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont see a macos xcode project file in the updated tree
[2024-01-15 13:31:12] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont see a macos xcode project file in the updated tree
[2024-01-15 13:31:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| is homebrew required to build a-la-linux?
[2024-01-15 13:31:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| is homebrew required to build a-la-linux?
[2024-01-15 13:31:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| which i dont like because it requires lowering the system security by allowing users write to /usr/local
[2024-01-15 13:31:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| which i dont like because it requires lowering the system security by allowing users write to /usr/local
[2024-01-15 13:32:10] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| in apple silicon its better with /opt/homebrew
[2024-01-15 13:32:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| in apple silicon its better with /opt/homebrew
[2024-01-15 13:36:15] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i used macports instead of homebrew, but as long as everything is installed you should be able to use the scripts mentioned here: https://wiki.armagetronad.org/MacOS#Get_source_and_build
[2024-01-15 13:36:15] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i used macports instead of homebrew, but as long as everything is installed you should be able to use the scripts mentioned here: https://wiki.armagetronad.org/MacOS#Get_source_and_build
[2024-01-15 13:36:15] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| that being `sh ./src/macosx/configure_for_bundle.sh` then `sh ./src/macosx/build_bundle.sh`
[2024-01-15 13:36:16] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| that being `sh ./src/macosx/configure_for_bundle.sh` then `sh ./src/macosx/build_bundle.sh`
[2024-01-15 13:36:47] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| to get a proper application that you could move to the applications folder
[2024-01-15 13:36:48] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| to get a proper application that you could move to the applications folder
[2024-01-15 13:36:56] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| if you dont need that you could also just build like you would on linux
[2024-01-15 13:36:57] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| if you dont need that you could also just build like you would on linux
[2024-01-15 13:44:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd rather compile in a environment without macports nor homebrew
[2024-01-15 13:44:02] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd rather compile in a environment without macports nor homebrew
[2024-01-15 13:46:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| unfortunately the old armagetronad-osxlibs is outdated
[2024-01-15 13:46:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| unfortunately the old armagetronad-osxlibs is outdated
[2024-01-15 13:47:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| we might need a new one
[2024-01-15 13:47:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| we might need a new one
[2024-01-15 13:47:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| for users with only xcode
[2024-01-15 13:47:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| for users with only xcode
[2024-01-15 13:49:30] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| if you're really worried about it you could always build in a VM
[2024-01-15 13:49:30] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| if you're really worried about it you could always build in a VM
[2024-01-15 13:52:54] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont have enough storage for this
[2024-01-15 13:52:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont have enough storage for this
[2024-01-15 13:53:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd rather not spend a lot of storage with macports and i dont like the homebrew way
[2024-01-15 13:53:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd rather not spend a lot of storage with macports and i dont like the homebrew way
[2024-01-15 13:55:56] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Do you have to build for some reason? There are Mac clients to just download.
[2024-01-15 13:55:57] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Do you have to build for some reason? There are Mac clients to just download.
[2024-01-15 13:55:57] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| 0.4: https://download.armagetronad.org/staging/snapshots/2024/0.4.0_alpha_z5671/armagetronad-experimental-0.4.0_alpha_z5671.dmg
[2024-01-15 13:55:58] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| 0.4: https://download.armagetronad.org/staging/snapshots/2024/0.4.0_alpha_z5671/armagetronad-experimental-0.4.0_alpha_z5671.dmg
[2024-01-15 13:55:58] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| 0.2.9.2: https://download.armagetronad.org/staging/beta/2024/0.2.9.2_beta_z2962/armagetronad-beta-0.2.9.2_beta_z2962.dmg
[2024-01-15 13:55:59] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| 0.2.9.2: https://download.armagetronad.org/staging/beta/2024/0.2.9.2_beta_z2962/armagetronad-beta-0.2.9.2_beta_z2962.dmg
[2024-01-15 14:00:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| interested in the build process for my own benefit
[2024-01-15 14:00:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| interested in the build process for my own benefit
[2024-01-15 14:21:49] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| and in case of patches
[2024-01-15 14:21:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| and in case of patches
[2024-01-15 14:25:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im interested in building for windows too
[2024-01-15 14:25:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im interested in building for windows too
[2024-01-15 14:25:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| is it msvc now or still codeblocks?
[2024-01-15 14:25:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| is it msvc now or still codeblocks?
[2024-01-15 14:25:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd rather use a ide to explore the code meaningfully
[2024-01-15 14:25:51] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd rather use a ide to explore the code meaningfully
[2024-01-15 14:52:49] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| VI > IDE
[2024-01-15 14:52:50] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| VI > IDE
[2024-01-15 14:56:22] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| still codeblocks
[2024-01-15 14:56:23] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| still codeblocks
[2024-01-15 15:04:43] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @zman_0 So I use 0.4 and have done for a long time. I was just wondering a few things:
[2024-01-15 15:04:43] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @zman_0 So I use 0.4 and have done for a long time. I was just wondering a few things:
[2024-01-15 15:04:43] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| 1) Is 0.2+sty+ap+etc the future now or is 0.4?
[2024-01-15 15:04:44] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| 1) Is 0.2+sty+ap+etc the future now or is 0.4?
[2024-01-15 15:04:45] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| 2) Are there any features in 0.4 that will not make it into 0.2?
[2024-01-15 15:04:45] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| 2) Are there any features in 0.4 that will not make it into 0.2?
[2024-01-15 15:05:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah
[2024-01-15 15:05:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah
[2024-01-15 15:05:32] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| isnt it complicated to get it going or something?
[2024-01-15 15:05:32] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| isnt it complicated to get it going or something?
[2024-01-15 15:05:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| plus my installation is outdated most likely
[2024-01-15 15:05:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| plus my installation is outdated most likely
[2024-01-15 15:17:48] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| @monkey_arma based on the messages above from him, I think the plan is very much still 0.4 becomes the main release.
[2024-01-15 15:17:49] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| @monkey_arma based on the messages above from him, I think the plan is very much still 0.4 becomes the main release.
[2024-01-15 15:17:49] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| https://discord.com/channels/209759416604426242/209759416604426242/1196177297506566186
[2024-01-15 15:17:50] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| https://discord.com/channels/209759416604426242/209759416604426242/1196177297506566186
[2024-01-15 15:18:52] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @codefossa Reading that it is not clear to me that 0.4 will become the main release.
[2024-01-15 15:18:52] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @codefossa Reading that it is not clear to me that 0.4 will become the main release.
[2024-01-15 15:19:31] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| Sounds like his goal at least.
[2024-01-15 15:19:31] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| Sounds like his goal at least.
[2024-01-15 15:20:30] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| He states that ct+sty+ap should be the main release
[2024-01-15 15:20:30] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| He states that ct+sty+ap should be the main release
[2024-01-15 15:22:12] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:Light| True and also says a lot of 0.4 stuff is basically outdated now anyways. I guess less clear than I originally took it.
[2024-01-15 15:22:12] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:Light| True and also says a lot of 0.4 stuff is basically outdated now anyways. I guess less clear than I originally took it.
[2024-01-15 15:22:33] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Yes
[2024-01-15 15:22:33] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Yes
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[2024-01-15 23:02:56] <Lucifer_arma> The sol library is what sold me on lua, because it's so insanely easy to integrate :)
[2024-01-15 23:02:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| The sol library is what sold me on lua, because it's so insanely easy to integrate :)
[2024-01-15 23:05:52] <Lucifer_arma> Kate > vi
[2024-01-15 23:05:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Kate > vi
[2024-01-15 23:16:12] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| Geany > Kate
[2024-01-15 23:16:12] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| Geany > Kate
[2024-01-15 23:21:50] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| This is the correct answer, though Kate is totally awesome. I had to use it on a Qt based system and was very happy with it. Can barely use VI anymore not that my job isn't managing servers or programming.
[2024-01-15 23:21:50] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| This is the correct answer, though Kate is totally awesome. I had to use it on a Qt based system and was very happy with it. Can barely use VI anymore not that my job isn't managing servers or programming.
[2024-01-15 23:24:40] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:omniverideus| Hey any folk here know where the HFT server’s disappeared to?
[2024-01-15 23:24:40] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:omniverideus| Hey any folk here know where the HFT server’s disappeared to?
[2024-01-15 23:27:11] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah, apparently the data center that was running @dukevin's VPS shut down
[2024-01-15 23:27:11] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah, apparently the data center that was running @dukevin's VPS shut down
[2024-01-15 23:28:56] <Lucifer_arma> The only things I need in a text editor are a directory tree widget starting at the root directory of the project I'm working on, a tabwidget containing all the files that are open, and solid syntax highlighting
[2024-01-15 23:28:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| The only things I need in a text editor are a directory tree widget starting at the root directory of the project I'm working on, a tabwidget containing all the files that are open, and solid syntax highlighting
[2024-01-15 23:29:04] <Lucifer_arma> oh, and a terminal widget
[2024-01-15 23:29:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh, and a terminal widget
[2024-01-15 23:29:34] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:omniverideus| Aw no, I’ll host it for Duke for free. I have his email, we’ll sort it
[2024-01-15 23:29:35] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:omniverideus| Aw no, I’ll host it for Duke for free. I have his email, we’ll sort it
[2024-01-15 23:43:08] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:omniverideus| emailed - hopefully he still has everything
[2024-01-15 23:43:08] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:omniverideus| emailed - hopefully he still has everything
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[2024-01-16 07:27:21] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| @omniverideus I'm slowly rebuilding the portfolio in drips and drabs. About two thirds of the servers are restored, the rest will come soon
[2024-01-16 07:27:21] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| @omniverideus I'm slowly rebuilding the portfolio in drips and drabs. About two thirds of the servers are restored, the rest will come soon
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[2024-01-16 07:39:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| guru3: Speaking of dukevin's servers, one of those was tunnel trouble. In the config for that server, I found a couple of very lightly-documented options. Did `MAP_ROTATION` etcetera stay in the main trunk?
[2024-01-16 07:39:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| guru3: Speaking of dukevin's servers, one of those was tunnel trouble. In the config for that server, I found a couple of very lightly-documented options. Did `MAP_ROTATION` etcetera stay in the main trunk?
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[2024-01-16 08:41:53] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i think you're mixing up dukevin and kevinh again
[2024-01-16 08:41:53] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i think you're mixing up dukevin and kevinh again
[2024-01-16 08:42:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ah fuck
[2024-01-16 08:42:03] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ah fuck
[2024-01-16 08:42:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| four hours kip
[2024-01-16 08:42:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| four hours kip
[2024-01-16 08:58:57] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @monkey_arma 1) As far as I am concerned, 0.4 is supposed to be the future.
[2024-01-16 08:58:57] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @monkey_arma 1) As far as I am concerned, 0.4 is supposed to be the future.
[2024-01-16 08:58:57] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| 2) Tons. True type fonts, cockpits, protobuf networking, zones2. Though I'm not sure how much of the internal zones2 logic is going to stick around anyway, nobody knows how to do anything useful with it.
[2024-01-16 08:58:58] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| 2) Tons. True type fonts, cockpits, protobuf networking, zones2. Though I'm not sure how much of the internal zones2 logic is going to stick around anyway, nobody knows how to do anything useful with it.
[2024-01-16 08:58:59] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| 3) Yes, please, git for everything. 0.2.8.3, 0.2.9, 0.4, sty+ct+ap. Central source of truth for our branches is the Gitlab project.
[2024-01-16 08:58:59] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| 3) Yes, please, git for everything. 0.2.8.3, 0.2.9, 0.4, sty+ct+ap. Central source of truth for our branches is the Gitlab project.
[2024-01-16 11:00:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i like notepad++ and pluma
[2024-01-16 11:00:37] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i like notepad++ and pluma
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[2024-01-16 16:00:26] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @wwnelg @dukevin Want me to help get legacy_0.2.9 and sty+ct+ap back together, and get regular client builds for all platforms going? https://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=40635
[2024-01-16 16:00:26] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @wwnelg @dukevin Want me to help get legacy_0.2.9 and sty+ct+ap back together, and get regular client builds for all platforms going? https://forums3.armagetronad.net/viewtopic.php?t=40635
[2024-01-16 16:47:53] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Huh. I just actually tried the client for the first time, and I have to say, it is quite impressive.
[2024-01-16 16:47:53] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Huh. I just actually tried the client for the first time, and I have to say, it is quite impressive.
[2024-01-16 16:48:02] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| really?
[2024-01-16 16:48:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| really?
[2024-01-16 16:48:38] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, I definitely want everyone to get easy access to it without compiling stuff.
[2024-01-16 16:48:39] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, I definitely want everyone to get easy access to it without compiling stuff.
[2024-01-16 16:48:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im looking at issues and merge requests, some things are doable or already done by now
[2024-01-16 16:48:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im looking at issues and merge requests, some things are doable or already done by now
[2024-01-16 17:10:32] <Z-Man> Editor wise, I used to be an emacs guy, probably because the big editor on the Amiga was MicroEmacs. And, of course, I used emacs-likes like jed when on the terminal. Tried some full IDEs in between, like Eclipse, Code::Blocks and QTCreator, none stuck. These days, I think I'm pretty much settled on Visual Studio Code on one end (where even rarely used functions are easy to find) and nvim with tons of customized extensions on the other,
[2024-01-16 17:10:32] <Z-Man> where the things I do often are at most three keystrokes away, and I get all the modern trappings like code completion, code browsing and debugging with the speed of a terminal editor, all without forcing your projects into any specific structure. Though using cmake helps a lot.
[2024-01-16 17:10:32] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Editor wise, I used to be an emacs guy, probably because the big editor on the Amiga was MicroEmacs. And, of course, I used emacs-likes like jed when on the terminal. Tried some full IDEs in between, like Eclipse, Code::Blocks and QTCreator, none stuck. These days, I think I'm pretty much settled on Visual Studio Code on one end (where even rarely used functions are easy to find) <clipped message>
[2024-01-16 17:10:32] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| and nvim with tons of customized extensions on the other,
[2024-01-16 17:10:33] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| where the things I do often are at most three keystrokes away, and I get all the modern trappings like code completion, code browsing and debugging with the speed of a terminal editor, all without forcing your projects into any specific structure. Though using cmake helps a lot.
[2024-01-16 17:17:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh cool
[2024-01-16 17:17:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| oh cool
[2024-01-16 17:18:02] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about mac?
[2024-01-16 17:18:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about mac?
[2024-01-16 17:18:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| no xcode
[2024-01-16 17:18:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| no xcode
[2024-01-16 17:18:18] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| for armagetronad it seems
[2024-01-16 17:18:19] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| for armagetronad it seems
[2024-01-16 17:18:31] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont have a mac with homebrew nor macports
[2024-01-16 17:18:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont have a mac with homebrew nor macports
[2024-01-16 17:18:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| no plans to install either
[2024-01-16 17:18:37] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| no plans to install either
[2024-01-16 17:57:46] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| @Juesto there are probably some ancient xcode project files somewhere, although I can't immediately find them. In any case, you're welcome to try to get it building with xcode
[2024-01-16 17:57:47] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| @Juesto there are probably some ancient xcode project files somewhere, although I can't immediately find them. In any case, you're welcome to try to get it building with xcode
[2024-01-16 18:02:13] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| 14 years old but they're removed on the newer branches, its the MacOSX folder and it requires changing the library mappings altogether
[2024-01-16 18:02:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| 14 years old but they're removed on the newer branches, its the MacOSX folder and it requires changing the library mappings altogether
[2024-01-16 18:13:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its there on release 0.2.9 but removed from branches afterwards
[2024-01-16 18:13:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its there on release 0.2.9 but removed from branches afterwards
[2024-01-16 18:17:19] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Getting library dependencies set up is a pain on Windows and macOS. On Windows, we have the winlibs package. On macOS, there was something similar for the XCode build, but I'm pretty sure it would no longer work. Hence, homebrew. Makes it as easy as on any Linux, and the result is distributable and runs on standard macOS, unlike macports.
[2024-01-16 18:17:19] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Getting library dependencies set up is a pain on Windows and macOS. On Windows, we have the winlibs package. On macOS, there was something similar for the XCode build, but I'm pretty sure it would no longer work. Hence, homebrew. Makes it as easy as on any Linux, and the result is distributable and runs on standard macOS, unlike macports.
[2024-01-16 18:17:45] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| I'm only happy on macOS because I can turn it quite a lot into Linux ๐
[2024-01-16 18:17:45] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| I'm only happy on macOS because I can turn it quite a lot into Linux ๐
[2024-01-16 18:19:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
[2024-01-16 18:19:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| lol
[2024-01-16 18:19:56] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| not willing to maintain macos libraries eh?
[2024-01-16 18:19:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| not willing to maintain macos libraries eh?
[2024-01-16 18:20:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| tell me what is needed and i can see other ways of getting it and put it into xcode
[2024-01-16 18:20:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| tell me what is needed and i can see other ways of getting it and put it into xcode
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[2024-01-17 09:01:05] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| xCode is a bit platform specific, which makes it harder to develop armagetron across platforms. If a supporting pacakge could be regularly maintained without changing the flow of the existing codebase, though...
[2024-01-17 09:01:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| xCode is a bit platform specific, which makes it harder to develop armagetron across platforms. If a supporting pacakge could be regularly maintained without changing the flow of the existing codebase, though...
[2024-01-17 09:33:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Fair enough
[2024-01-17 09:33:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Fair enough
[2024-01-17 09:34:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about making the winlibs repository a general purpose one that builds for macos and windows users?
[2024-01-17 09:34:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| how about making the winlibs repository a general purpose one that builds for macos and windows users?
[2024-01-17 09:34:31] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| since usually the codebases support multiple oses
[2024-01-17 09:34:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| since usually the codebases support multiple oses
[2024-01-17 09:35:24] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| bzflag has a dependencies repo that allows macos and windows users build via command line and shell scripts
[2024-01-17 09:35:24] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| bzflag has a dependencies repo that allows macos and windows users build via command line and shell scripts
[2024-01-17 10:44:41] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @zman_0 Thanks for the clarification.
[2024-01-17 10:44:41] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @zman_0 Thanks for the clarification.
[2024-01-17 10:55:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you could figure out a clean and straightforward implementation, I don't think anyone would be particularly opposed to it. The major requirement is that the process is repeatable by any learned individual with access to FOSS tools - and that includes being able to build for *other* IDE environments on MacOS. As long as the differences between the two are clear and well documen <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 10:55:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| If you could figure out a clean and straightforward implementation, I don't think anyone would be particularly opposed to it. The major requirement is that the process is repeatable by any learned individual with access to FOSS tools - and that includes being able to build for *other* IDE environments on MacOS. As long as the differences between the two are clear and well documen <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 10:55:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ted, it could be a useful addition.
[2024-01-17 10:55:31] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ted, it could be a useful addition.
[2024-01-17 10:55:31] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That said, homebrew does appear to be working at the moment. As long as that process exists, it will suffice
[2024-01-17 10:55:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That said, homebrew does appear to be working at the moment. As long as that process exists, it will suffice
[2024-01-17 10:58:17] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ^ that isn't intended as a dissuasion, btw
[2024-01-17 10:58:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ^ that isn't intended as a dissuasion, btw
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[2024-01-17 12:12:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i understand, i just think the way bzflag does it is a good balance, of course with the option of homebrew/macports and the independent one
[2024-01-17 12:12:51] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i understand, i just think the way bzflag does it is a good balance, of course with the option of homebrew/macports and the independent one
[2024-01-17 12:13:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| xcode doesnt have autoconf/automake out of the box
[2024-01-17 12:13:18] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| xcode doesnt have autoconf/automake out of the box
[2024-01-17 12:14:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| in windows you could use vcpkg and mingw
[2024-01-17 12:14:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| in windows you could use vcpkg and mingw
[2024-01-17 12:59:53] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| The winlibs setup is also suboptimal. We stick to it because our library dependencies and windows build system have not changed in a long time, but partly that is also a feedback effect: Because changing the Windows build system, say upgrading code::blocks to something less than ten years old, would mean rebuilding winlibs, so we don't as long as we don't have to.
[2024-01-17 12:59:53] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| The winlibs setup is also suboptimal. We stick to it because our library dependencies and windows build system have not changed in a long time, but partly that is also a feedback effect: Because changing the Windows build system, say upgrading code::blocks to something less than ten years old, would mean rebuilding winlibs, so we don't as long as we don't have to.
[2024-01-17 13:02:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| MSVC builds are faster than MINGW/gcc on windows fyi
[2024-01-17 13:02:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| MSVC builds are faster than MINGW/gcc on windows fyi
[2024-01-17 13:02:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| as in more performant
[2024-01-17 13:02:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| as in more performant
[2024-01-17 13:02:40] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| My personal ideal right now is that everything is defined in the main source module, with external dependencies of course. We have that for the Linux builds, for them, the build machines are docker images defined by dockerfiles in the main git tree. The bit that is iffing me there is that you still have to manually build the images and upload them to the repository, I'd prefer it <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 13:02:40] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| My personal ideal right now is that everything is defined in the main source module, with external dependencies of course. We have that for the Linux builds, for them, the build machines are docker images defined by dockerfiles in the main git tree. The bit that is iffing me there is that you still have to manually build the images and upload them to the repository, I'd prefer it <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 13:02:40] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| if the build would automatically handle that.
[2024-01-17 13:02:41] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| if the build would automatically handle that.
[2024-01-17 13:03:31] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| For the Windows build machine, the same applies; only that, it being windows, the setup is not completely automatic. You still have to klick OK a couple of times.
[2024-01-17 13:03:32] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| For the Windows build machine, the same applies; only that, it being windows, the setup is not completely automatic. You still have to klick OK a couple of times.
[2024-01-17 13:03:56] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| nothing that some computer vision and ahk cant fix
[2024-01-17 13:03:57] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| nothing that some computer vision and ahk cant fix
[2024-01-17 13:04:27] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont codeblocks and other stuff have cli stuff without prompts?
[2024-01-17 13:04:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| dont codeblocks and other stuff have cli stuff without prompts?
[2024-01-17 13:04:52] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| For the build, yes, and we use that; for the installer, no.
[2024-01-17 13:04:52] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| For the build, yes, and we use that; for the installer, no.
[2024-01-17 13:04:59] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah hm
[2024-01-17 13:05:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah hm
[2024-01-17 13:05:26] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| which installer framework is used here?
[2024-01-17 13:05:26] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| which installer framework is used here?
[2024-01-17 13:05:32] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| At least not for the one we need. Later ones are available over winget or the chocolate thing.
[2024-01-17 13:05:32] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| At least not for the one we need. Later ones are available over winget or the chocolate thing.
[2024-01-17 13:05:49] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| chocolatey, also there's scoop
[2024-01-17 13:05:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| chocolatey, also there's scoop
[2024-01-17 13:06:08] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| What do you mean by framework?
[2024-01-17 13:06:08] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| What do you mean by framework?
[2024-01-17 13:06:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| as in, nsis, inno, wix, etc
[2024-01-17 13:06:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| as in, nsis, inno, wix, etc
[2024-01-17 13:06:37] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| ah, our installer? that is nsis.
[2024-01-17 13:06:37] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| ah, our installer? that is nsis.
[2024-01-17 13:06:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| nsis has unattended command line arguments iirc
[2024-01-17 13:06:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| nsis has unattended command line arguments iirc
[2024-01-17 13:07:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| for runtime that is
[2024-01-17 13:07:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| for runtime that is
[2024-01-17 13:08:05] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, and we're using that. The build is completely headless, on all platforms.
[2024-01-17 13:08:05] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, and we're using that. The build is completely headless, on all platforms.
[2024-01-17 13:08:13] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2024-01-17 13:08:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2024-01-17 13:08:45] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| wdym "for the installer" then?
[2024-01-17 13:08:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| wdym "for the installer" then?
[2024-01-17 13:09:06] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| The installer that installs nsis, and the installer that installs code::blocks.
[2024-01-17 13:09:06] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| The installer that installs nsis, and the installer that installs code::blocks.
[2024-01-17 13:09:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah i see
[2024-01-17 13:09:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah i see
[2024-01-17 13:09:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| shouldnt those have automation options?
[2024-01-17 13:09:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| shouldnt those have automation options?
[2024-01-17 13:10:51] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Depending on what you mean by "should". They don't, at least not the versions we use. I wish they had.
[2024-01-17 13:10:51] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Depending on what you mean by "should". They don't, at least not the versions we use. I wish they had.
[2024-01-17 13:11:22] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| there is /S except for the last step
[2024-01-17 13:11:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| there is /S except for the last step
[2024-01-17 13:11:28] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Oh yeah, another problem is that for the windows build to run automated and headless, we're using wine. Sone tools don't work there. Winget is one of them.
[2024-01-17 13:11:28] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Oh yeah, another problem is that for the windows build to run automated and headless, we're using wine. Sone tools don't work there. Winget is one of them.
[2024-01-17 13:11:45] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| looking at some 2009 post
[2024-01-17 13:11:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| looking at some 2009 post
[2024-01-17 13:12:14] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| true, winget is uwp/onecore and runs on newer versions of win10
[2024-01-17 13:12:14] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| true, winget is uwp/onecore and runs on newer versions of win10
[2024-01-17 13:13:29] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| for codeblocks you could provide a zip file of the program files
[2024-01-17 13:13:29] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| for codeblocks you could provide a zip file of the program files
[2024-01-17 13:13:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| instead of relying on the installer
[2024-01-17 13:13:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| instead of relying on the installer
[2024-01-17 13:13:53] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Then I would have to maintain that. That's not less work.
[2024-01-17 13:13:53] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Then I would have to maintain that. That's not less work.
[2024-01-17 13:13:59] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| STOP TRYING TO HELP
[2024-01-17 13:14:00] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| STOP TRYING TO HELP
[2024-01-17 13:15:03] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im sorry
[2024-01-17 13:15:03] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im sorry
[2024-01-17 13:15:12] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| No worries ๐
[2024-01-17 13:15:12] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| No worries ๐
[2024-01-17 13:16:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| just making a zip of the codeblocks program files available is not high maintainance unless you're updating it frequently
[2024-01-17 13:16:08] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| just making a zip of the codeblocks program files available is not high maintainance unless you're updating it frequently
[2024-01-17 13:16:12] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| If you want to add xcode compilation support, knock yourself out; I'll merge it for those who want to use it.
[2024-01-17 13:16:13] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| If you want to add xcode compilation support, knock yourself out; I'll merge it for those who want to use it.
[2024-01-17 13:16:36] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| @Juesto when you say MSVC is faster than MINGW/GCC, are you saying that the build process is faster or that the resulting program is faster?
[2024-01-17 13:16:36] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| @Juesto when you say MSVC is faster than MINGW/GCC, are you saying that the build process is faster or that the resulting program is faster?
[2024-01-17 13:16:42] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, but I also don't have to update the windows build docker image frequently.
[2024-01-17 13:16:42] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, but I also don't have to update the windows build docker image frequently.
[2024-01-17 13:16:45] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the latter
[2024-01-17 13:16:45] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the latter
[2024-01-17 13:17:02] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| have you actually tested that claim? I don't doubt that there could be slight speed differences under certain conditions, but I have a hard time believing that there's actually an overall meaningful speed difference between the two, especially one that would make it worthwhile to switch from CodeBlocks to Visual Studio.
[2024-01-17 13:17:02] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| have you actually tested that claim? I don't doubt that there could be slight speed differences under certain conditions, but I have a hard time believing that there's actually an overall meaningful speed difference between the two, especially one that would make it worthwhile to switch from CodeBlocks to Visual Studio.
[2024-01-17 13:17:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| slightly faster execution
[2024-01-17 13:17:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| slightly faster execution
[2024-01-17 13:17:16] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its minor at most
[2024-01-17 13:17:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its minor at most
[2024-01-17 13:17:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| execution speed within armagetron isn't an issue persay, it's a comparatively tiny application
[2024-01-17 13:17:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| execution speed within armagetron isn't an issue persay, it's a comparatively tiny application
[2024-01-17 13:17:55] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| through its annoying that the windows sdk is hefty
[2024-01-17 13:17:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| through its annoying that the windows sdk is hefty
[2024-01-17 13:18:38] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| nelg, im not saying there's big differences
[2024-01-17 13:18:38] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| nelg, im not saying there's big differences
[2024-01-17 13:18:50] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| just minor
[2024-01-17 13:18:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| just minor
[2024-01-17 13:19:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i guess i could compile armagetronad without codeblocks but using msys2/mingw
[2024-01-17 13:19:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i guess i could compile armagetronad without codeblocks but using msys2/mingw
[2024-01-17 13:20:09] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| speaking of IDEs, what options are there on linux? which ones do yall use?
[2024-01-17 13:20:09] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| speaking of IDEs, what options are there on linux? which ones do yall use?
[2024-01-17 13:20:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| besides visual studio code and gnome and kde offers
[2024-01-17 13:20:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| besides visual studio code and gnome and kde offers
[2024-01-17 13:21:08] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| neovim currently for actual coding.
[2024-01-17 13:21:08] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| neovim currently for actual coding.
[2024-01-17 13:21:26] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| isnt that just a enhanced text editor?
[2024-01-17 13:21:26] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| isnt that just a enhanced text editor?
[2024-01-17 13:21:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'd say the bigger issue is single-threadiness. I think I was spitballing this before from a conceptual mindset, if we could offload stuff like scoring, logins (as with z-thread), console output and text chat, and background stuff like adjusting configs on-the-fly, that would be interesting. It's more interesting from a server standpoint, because offloading the unimportant stuff <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 13:21:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'd say the bigger issue is single-threadiness. I think I was spitballing this before from a conceptual mindset, if we could offload stuff like scoring, logins (as with z-thread), console output and text chat, and background stuff like adjusting configs on-the-fly, that would be interesting. It's more interesting from a server standpoint, because offloading the unimportant stuff <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 13:21:29] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| might actually improve in-game performance. Positional data and other in-memory stuff would benefit a lot from that, especially when it comes to things like heavy-output scenarios, such as Nanu's data gathering
[2024-01-17 13:21:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| might actually improve in-game performance. Positional data and other in-memory stuff would benefit a lot from that, especially when it comes to things like heavy-output scenarios, such as Nanu's data gathering
[2024-01-17 13:21:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh wow I type slowly
[2024-01-17 13:21:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh wow I type slowly
[2024-01-17 13:21:53] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| its ok, yeah that's a good goal to work on
[2024-01-17 13:21:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| its ok, yeah that's a good goal to work on
[2024-01-17 13:22:00] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, just like VS Code is just an enhanced text editor.
[2024-01-17 13:22:00] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, just like VS Code is just an enhanced text editor.
[2024-01-17 13:22:09] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh fair enough
[2024-01-17 13:22:10] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh fair enough
[2024-01-17 13:22:29] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean, i was asking about proper ides not text editors pretending to be one thanks to the plugins
[2024-01-17 13:22:30] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i mean, i was asking about proper ides not text editors pretending to be one thanks to the plugins
[2024-01-17 13:22:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I still use full-fat visual studio, when I'm in linux I run it in cassowary. I'm locked into .NET at the moment though, so once I start moving to rust that'll change
[2024-01-17 13:22:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I still use full-fat visual studio, when I'm in linux I run it in cassowary. I'm locked into .NET at the moment though, so once I start moving to rust that'll change
[2024-01-17 13:23:03] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| qtcreator worked reasonably well for me then.
[2024-01-17 13:23:03] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| qtcreator worked reasonably well for me then.
[2024-01-17 13:23:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah nice
[2024-01-17 13:23:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ah nice
[2024-01-17 13:23:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I have to say though, I do enjoy the features of VS, even if it *is* a COM nightmare under the hood
[2024-01-17 13:23:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I have to say though, I do enjoy the features of VS, even if it *is* a COM nightmare under the hood
[2024-01-17 13:23:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you could use xamarin monodevelop
[2024-01-17 13:23:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you could use xamarin monodevelop
[2024-01-17 13:23:58] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| can't, I need full-fat .NET 4.... 4.something. Core is no good
[2024-01-17 13:23:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| can't, I need full-fat .NET 4.... 4.something. Core is no good
[2024-01-17 13:24:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| monodevelop does mono/net framework
[2024-01-17 13:24:16] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| monodevelop does mono/net framework
[2024-01-17 13:24:43] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Only kinda, and it lacks a lot of the push features that I need. It also doesn't support DotVVM, which is a framework that I'm building with at the moment
[2024-01-17 13:24:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Only kinda, and it lacks a lot of the push features that I need. It also doesn't support DotVVM, which is a framework that I'm building with at the moment
[2024-01-17 13:24:51] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2024-01-17 13:24:51] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see
[2024-01-17 13:25:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Pretty much entirely locked in for the moment. Besides, changing now would make developement very difficult, the project is nowhere near a completed state and I need to save what little energy I have for actually advancing it
[2024-01-17 13:25:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Pretty much entirely locked in for the moment. Besides, changing now would make developement very difficult, the project is nowhere near a completed state and I need to save what little energy I have for actually advancing it
[2024-01-17 13:25:49] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| no worries
[2024-01-17 13:25:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| no worries
[2024-01-17 13:27:54] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 what's the current mininum for macos? 10.13?
[2024-01-17 13:27:55] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 what's the current mininum for macos? 10.13?
[2024-01-17 13:28:05] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| for armagetron advanced i mean
[2024-01-17 13:28:05] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| for armagetron advanced i mean
[2024-01-17 13:28:29] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Do I look like someone who knows what OSX version numbers mean?
[2024-01-17 13:28:29] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Do I look like someone who knows what OSX version numbers mean?
[2024-01-17 13:28:34] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Or codenames.
[2024-01-17 13:28:35] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Or codenames.
[2024-01-17 13:28:53] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| im just wondering what mac version armagetron targets? latest?
[2024-01-17 13:28:54] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| im just wondering what mac version armagetron targets? latest?
[2024-01-17 13:33:01] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| No. What was the one before Catalina? I guess that one.
[2024-01-17 13:33:01] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| No. What was the one before Catalina? I guess that one.
[2024-01-17 13:36:39] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Mojave, 10.14
[2024-01-17 13:36:39] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Mojave, 10.14
[2024-01-17 13:37:46] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| uhhhhhhhhhhh
[2024-01-17 13:37:46] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| uhhhhhhhhhhh
[2024-01-17 13:37:59] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, 10.14.6 Mojave is the version of the build system. The build probably can work on older machines, but I have no sensible way of checking.
[2024-01-17 13:38:01] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, 10.14.6 Mojave is the version of the build system. The build probably can work on older machines, but I have no sensible way of checking.
[2024-01-17 13:38:06] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| what are the changes that were done to the source tree in relation to mac os?
[2024-01-17 13:38:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| what are the changes that were done to the source tree in relation to mac os?
[2024-01-17 13:39:09] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| To the C++ code itself? Locations of the user storage locations, mostly.
[2024-01-17 13:39:09] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| To the C++ code itself? Locations of the user storage locations, mostly.
[2024-01-17 13:39:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the changes from the old macos setup to what is used now
[2024-01-17 13:39:35] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the changes from the old macos setup to what is used now
[2024-01-17 13:39:40] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| for building
[2024-01-17 13:39:40] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| for building
[2024-01-17 13:40:01] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Throw away the old setup, build a new process based on the Unix builds.
[2024-01-17 13:40:01] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Throw away the old setup, build a new process based on the Unix builds.
[2024-01-17 13:40:33] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Then a completely new packaging script for the app bundle, the signing and notarizing (which did not exist back then), and a new dwg image build script.
[2024-01-17 13:40:33] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Then a completely new packaging script for the app bundle, the signing and notarizing (which did not exist back then), and a new dwg image build script.
[2024-01-17 13:41:09] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| what minimum/target version does the app bundle script specify?
[2024-01-17 13:41:09] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| what minimum/target version does the app bundle script specify?
[2024-01-17 13:41:17] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i guess i could just check on the released version
[2024-01-17 13:41:17] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i guess i could just check on the released version
[2024-01-17 18:55:36] <Lucifer_arma> I've never found a good IDE. The last one I used with any regularity was Borland C++ Builder, and that was only because I was learning C++ and was actually using windows for my daily driver.
[2024-01-17 18:55:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've never found a good IDE. The last one I used with any regularity was Borland C++ Builder, and that was only because I was learning C++ and was actually using windows for my daily driver.
[2024-01-17 18:56:17] <Lucifer_arma> I've fiddled with qtcreator, code::blocks, msvc, eclipse, etc. Kdevelop. I have to admit I really tried to get KDevelop to work for me.
[2024-01-17 18:56:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've fiddled with qtcreator, code::blocks, msvc, eclipse, etc. Kdevelop. I have to admit I really tried to get KDevelop to work for me.
[2024-01-17 18:57:02] <Lucifer_arma> I determined the problem with IDEs is the "integrated" part. I use so many random-ass tools that no IDE could realistically integrate everything in a way that's superior to just having a terminal widget in a text editor
[2024-01-17 18:57:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I determined the problem with IDEs is the "integrated" part. I use so many random-ass tools that no IDE could realistically integrate everything in a way that's superior to just having a terminal widget in a text editor
[2024-01-17 18:57:20] <Lucifer_arma> and even then, I wind up opening so many terminals that I just have one desktop devoted to Konsole
[2024-01-17 18:57:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and even then, I wind up opening so many terminals that I just have one desktop devoted to Konsole
[2024-01-17 18:58:28] <Lucifer_arma> I would be interested in moving over to CMake, and have even toyed with building arma with cmake. The problem, of course, is that our autoconf/automake build is so feature rich that I just don't see cmake really being able to displace it
[2024-01-17 18:58:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I would be interested in moving over to CMake, and have even toyed with building arma with cmake. The problem, of course, is that our autoconf/automake build is so feature rich that I just don't see cmake really being able to displace it
[2024-01-17 18:58:57] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, arma is easily the most build-configurable software package in the world, with the possible exception of the linux kernel itself :)
[2024-01-17 18:58:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I mean, arma is easily the most build-configurable software package in the world, with the possible exception of the linux kernel itself :)
[2024-01-17 19:00:33] <Lucifer_arma> so for me, the best changes to make to the build system would be to make all platforms use the autotools, or to move to a build system that would work for all platforms, like cmake. Having a separate build system for each platform is a real pain in the ass, and not being able to cross compile has been a limitation
[2024-01-17 19:00:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so for me, the best changes to make to the build system would be to make all platforms use the autotools, or to move to a build system that would work for all platforms, like cmake. Having a separate build system for each platform is a real pain in the ass, and not being able to cross compile has been a limitation
[2024-01-17 19:02:12] <Lucifer_arma> but I would specify that this holy grail build system also has to build the distributables for each platform, including rpm/deb packages, the windows installer, and the mac dmg (or whatever they're using now)
[2024-01-17 19:02:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I would specify that this holy grail build system also has to build the distributables for each platform, including rpm/deb packages, the windows installer, and the mac dmg (or whatever they're using now)
[2024-01-17 19:03:02] <Lucifer_arma> ideally, it would be able to do that in a cross compiling context, i.e. building the mac image from a linux machine without using a vm, but that's not necessary
[2024-01-17 19:03:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ideally, it would be able to do that in a cross compiling context, i.e. building the mac image from a linux machine without using a vm, but that's not necessary
[2024-01-17 19:05:02] <Lucifer_arma> and, of course, even more ideally, this futuristic build system would be able to target xbox, ps, whatever nintendo is making, etc. I don't care if arma can't target them right now, I'd just like to know it could be in our future, since, you know, there are libraries that make it possible/easy to port opengl to opengles/vulkan
[2024-01-17 19:05:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and, of course, even more ideally, this futuristic build system would be able to target xbox, ps, whatever nintendo is making, etc. I don't care if arma can't target them right now, I'd just like to know it could be in our future, since, you know, there are libraries that make it possible/easy to port opengl to opengles/vulkan
[2024-01-17 19:05:19] <Lucifer_arma> android and ios, of course
[2024-01-17 19:05:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| android and ios, of course
[2024-01-17 19:05:34] <Lucifer_arma> I *think* this can be done with cmake, but I don't know it for a fact
[2024-01-17 19:05:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I *think* this can be done with cmake, but I don't know it for a fact
[2024-01-17 19:08:04] <Lucifer_arma> finally, msvc vs mingw is a non-starter. Ignoring all technical points, the base arma build system and the distributables we provide need to come from open source tools
[2024-01-17 19:08:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| finally, msvc vs mingw is a non-starter. Ignoring all technical points, the base arma build system and the distributables we provide need to come from open source tools
[2024-01-17 19:08:35] <Lucifer_arma> I don't mind supporting msvc, but it can only ever be optional
[2024-01-17 19:08:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't mind supporting msvc, but it can only ever be optional
[2024-01-17 19:09:38] <Lucifer_arma> iirc, we made the switch to mingw because it had finally reached a point where its builds were competitive with msvc builds, and microsoft was doing a lot of weird shit with the msvc license, including going after open source projects distributing the msvc runtime
[2024-01-17 19:09:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| iirc, we made the switch to mingw because it had finally reached a point where its builds were competitive with msvc builds, and microsoft was doing a lot of weird shit with the msvc license, including going after open source projects distributing the msvc runtime
[2024-01-17 19:11:18] <Lucifer_arma> I'm all for microsoft trying to not be evil, and letting them move on from their past evildoing, but we're never going to have a world where it makes sense for an open source project to rely on anything closed source
[2024-01-17 19:11:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm all for microsoft trying to not be evil, and letting them move on from their past evildoing, but we're never going to have a world where it makes sense for an open source project to rely on anything closed source
[2024-01-17 19:11:54] <Lucifer_arma> the only reason anybody ever did in the past was because there were technical hurdles, but those are all gone now, and have been for some time.
[2024-01-17 19:11:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the only reason anybody ever did in the past was because there were technical hurdles, but those are all gone now, and have been for some time.
[2024-01-17 19:21:50] <Lucifer_arma> on the subject of threading, the reason we didn't do much in the past was because thread support was weird cross-platform and there's not a lot of places where threading made sense. But nowadays, with cpus providing great threading models, I think we're missing the boat by not threading whatever can be threaded
[2024-01-17 19:21:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| on the subject of threading, the reason we didn't do much in the past was because thread support was weird cross-platform and there's not a lot of places where threading made sense. But nowadays, with cpus providing great threading models, I think we're missing the boat by not threading whatever can be threaded
[2024-01-17 19:22:22] <Lucifer_arma> I would argue against actual multiprocessing, except in the case of developing a server waiting room, because it's unnecessary complications
[2024-01-17 19:22:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I would argue against actual multiprocessing, except in the case of developing a server waiting room, because it's unnecessary complications
[2024-01-17 19:23:17] <Lucifer_arma> but nowadays, even the base model cpus people are using and the kernels they're running provide great threading support and acceleration, and multithreaded code just isn't nearly as hard to work with as multiprocessing
[2024-01-17 19:23:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but nowadays, even the base model cpus people are using and the kernels they're running provide great threading support and acceleration, and multithreaded code just isn't nearly as hard to work with as multiprocessing
[2024-01-17 19:24:22] <Lucifer_arma> with AI accelerators hitting the market, if it makes sense for us to use those for anything other than graphics, then we should, but that's another ten years down the road before we should expect it to be widespread in our userbase
[2024-01-17 19:24:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| with AI accelerators hitting the market, if it makes sense for us to use those for anything other than graphics, then we should, but that's another ten years down the road before we should expect it to be widespread in our userbase
[2024-01-17 19:29:37] <Lucifer_arma> I've also changed my views on boost. Now that boost is (and has been for some time) the incubation project for whatever goes into the standard C++ libraries, I'm ok with using boost. I'd still prefer not to have to install the 200GB boost package. :)
[2024-01-17 19:29:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've also changed my views on boost. Now that boost is (and has been for some time) the incubation project for whatever goes into the standard C++ libraries, I'm ok with using boost. I'd still prefer not to have to install the 200GB boost package. :)
[2024-01-17 19:30:36] <Lucifer_arma> I say that because boost::thread has been integrated into a recent c++ standard, but I don't know if we've moved up to it yet
[2024-01-17 19:30:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I say that because boost::thread has been integrated into a recent c++ standard, but I don't know if we've moved up to it yet
[2024-01-17 19:30:47] <Lucifer_arma> or it's about to be, something like that
[2024-01-17 19:30:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| or it's about to be, something like that
[2024-01-17 19:32:36] <Lucifer_arma> I'm saying that there should be a c++ standard the provides cross platform threads soon, which would be the last big barrier for us to use threads more aggressively/liberally
[2024-01-17 19:32:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm saying that there should be a c++ standard the provides cross platform threads soon, which would be the last big barrier for us to use threads more aggressively/liberally
[2024-01-17 19:34:21] <Lucifer_arma> which ties into the msvc vs mingw question. GCC has become a kind of de facto reference implementation for C and C++. So using it everywhere is a nobrainer
[2024-01-17 19:34:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| which ties into the msvc vs mingw question. GCC has become a kind of de facto reference implementation for C and C++. So using it everywhere is a nobrainer
[2024-01-17 19:41:16] <Lucifer_arma> there is still a caveat with threading on android that I feel obligated to point out. If we ever port to android, we'll need to link to a different C library than the one that comes with android (bison?) because it's threading implementation is non-existent
[2024-01-17 19:41:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there is still a caveat with threading on android that I feel obligated to point out. If we ever port to android, we'll need to link to a different C library than the one that comes with android (bison?) because it's threading implementation is non-existent
[2024-01-17 19:42:53] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| LLVM/Clang is replacing GCC in many areas btw. Just something to think about for the future. Note that LLVM/Clang can be used as a drop in replacement for GCC, if I'm not mistaken.
[2024-01-17 19:42:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| LLVM/Clang is replacing GCC in many areas btw. Just something to think about for the future. Note that LLVM/Clang can be used as a drop in replacement for GCC, if I'm not mistaken.
[2024-01-17 19:43:48] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I think the only area in which it needs to improve is the debugger. It will get there though.
[2024-01-17 19:43:48] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I think the only area in which it needs to improve is the debugger. It will get there though.
[2024-01-17 19:44:14] <Lucifer_arma> I have been seeing some noise about that. I should probably look into it at some point. But if it can serve as a drop-in replacement for gcc, then we don't need to target it :)
[2024-01-17 19:44:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I have been seeing some noise about that. I should probably look into it at some point. But if it can serve as a drop-in replacement for gcc, then we don't need to target it :)
[2024-01-17 19:44:36] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I knew you were going to say that.
[2024-01-17 19:44:36] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I knew you were going to say that.
[2024-01-17 19:45:34] <Lucifer_arma> gcc isn't panacea. It definitely has its flaws. So I'm hardly married to it. ;)
[2024-01-17 19:45:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| gcc isn't panacea. It definitely has its flaws. So I'm hardly married to it. ;)
[2024-01-17 19:48:17] <Lucifer_arma> as a side note, I think arm is reaching a point where we can declare it the pinnacle of transistor-based CPU architectures and migrate all computing to arm cpus
[2024-01-17 19:48:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as a side note, I think arm is reaching a point where we can declare it the pinnacle of transistor-based CPU architectures and migrate all computing to arm cpus
[2024-01-17 19:48:50] <Lucifer_arma> I may be biased, though, since 90% of my computers in my home are all arm
[2024-01-17 19:48:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I may be biased, though, since 90% of my computers in my home are all arm
[2024-01-17 19:48:59] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I'm assuming that's humour?
[2024-01-17 19:48:59] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I'm assuming that's humour?
[2024-01-17 19:49:14] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Because RISCV is the future surely, no?
[2024-01-17 19:49:15] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Because RISCV is the future surely, no?
[2024-01-17 19:49:34] <Lucifer_arma> no? arm has managed to assimilate pretty much everything
[2024-01-17 19:49:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no? arm has managed to assimilate pretty much everything
[2024-01-17 19:49:54] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Even Nvidia will be using RISCV chips in the near future.
[2024-01-17 19:49:54] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Even Nvidia will be using RISCV chips in the near future.
[2024-01-17 19:50:05] <Lucifer_arma> really? I thought they just went all-in on arm
[2024-01-17 19:50:06] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| really? I thought they just went all-in on arm
[2024-01-17 19:50:16] <Lucifer_arma> they even tried to buy arm
[2024-01-17 19:50:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| they even tried to buy arm
[2024-01-17 19:50:27] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Nvidia did?
[2024-01-17 19:50:28] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Nvidia did?
[2024-01-17 19:50:44] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, they got shut down by EU regulators. antitrust concerns.
[2024-01-17 19:50:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, they got shut down by EU regulators. antitrust concerns.
[2024-01-17 19:50:51] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hah
[2024-01-17 19:50:51] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hah
[2024-01-17 19:51:03] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| well the future is definitely RISCV
[2024-01-17 19:51:04] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| well the future is definitely RISCV
[2024-01-17 19:51:06] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| IMO
[2024-01-17 19:51:07] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| IMO
[2024-01-17 19:51:57] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| No royalties for a start and also different versions for different scale jobs....embedded, desktops, etc
[2024-01-17 19:51:57] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| No royalties for a start and also different versions for different scale jobs....embedded, desktops, etc
[2024-01-17 19:51:59] <Lucifer_arma> idk. I haven't seen any riscv boards for under like $300. But it seems like every couple of months, some new SoC arm thing comes out that's not raspberry pi and costs around $100
[2024-01-17 19:51:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| idk. I haven't seen any riscv boards for under like $300. But it seems like every couple of months, some new SoC arm thing comes out that's not raspberry pi and costs around $100
[2024-01-17 19:52:13] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| RISCV hasnt taken off yet
[2024-01-17 19:52:14] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| RISCV hasnt taken off yet
[2024-01-17 19:52:24] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but it will very soon
[2024-01-17 19:52:24] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but it will very soon
[2024-01-17 19:52:26] <Lucifer_arma> arm has all that. That's why apple went to arm for its new laptops
[2024-01-17 19:52:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| arm has all that. That's why apple went to arm for its new laptops
[2024-01-17 19:52:50] <Lucifer_arma> I think there's even a top 500 arm computer
[2024-01-17 19:52:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think there's even a top 500 arm computer
[2024-01-17 19:52:55] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but arm is not an open hardware standard
[2024-01-17 19:52:56] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but arm is not an open hardware standard
[2024-01-17 19:53:05] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| so people gotta pay royalties etc
[2024-01-17 19:53:06] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| so people gotta pay royalties etc
[2024-01-17 19:53:14] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| RISCV is open
[2024-01-17 19:53:14] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| RISCV is open
[2024-01-17 19:53:30] <Lucifer_arma> eh, sorta. It's not exactly closed, either.
[2024-01-17 19:53:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| eh, sorta. It's not exactly closed, either.
[2024-01-17 19:53:59] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not throwing my support behind arm, mind you. I'm just commenting on what I'm seeing. I'd prefer an open standard, every time.
[2024-01-17 19:53:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not throwing my support behind arm, mind you. I'm just commenting on what I'm seeing. I'd prefer an open standard, every time.
[2024-01-17 19:54:18] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| me too and I'm not just saying it will take off because it's open either
[2024-01-17 19:54:18] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| me too and I'm not just saying it will take off because it's open either
[2024-01-17 19:54:59] <Lucifer_arma> arm has been threading the needle on that, and so far, doing pretty well. I have to admit, though, that knowing that arm is derived ultimately from the 6502, I have sentimental reasons to want it to succeed
[2024-01-17 19:55:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| arm has been threading the needle on that, and so far, doing pretty well. I have to admit, though, that knowing that arm is derived ultimately from the 6502, I have sentimental reasons to want it to succeed
[2024-01-17 19:55:28] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| well arm is better than x86 but that's not difficult
[2024-01-17 19:55:29] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| well arm is better than x86 but that's not difficult
[2024-01-17 19:55:41] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| x86 is very CISC
[2024-01-17 19:55:41] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| x86 is very CISC
[2024-01-17 19:56:16] <Lucifer_arma> it's hard to be amd64, since it really addressed all the flaws of the 32-bit arch. But risc is definitely the future, and arm is risc
[2024-01-17 19:56:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's hard to be amd64, since it really addressed all the flaws of the 32-bit arch. But risc is definitely the future, and arm is risc
[2024-01-17 19:56:27] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yes
[2024-01-17 19:56:28] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yes
[2024-01-17 19:56:43] <Lucifer_arma> it started as like a 16-bit risc version of the 6502, iirc.
[2024-01-17 19:56:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it started as like a 16-bit risc version of the 6502, iirc.
[2024-01-17 19:56:52] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ok
[2024-01-17 19:56:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ok
[2024-01-17 19:57:21] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| RISCV has 32, 64, 128 bit versions for different purposes iirc
[2024-01-17 19:57:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| RISCV has 32, 64, 128 bit versions for different purposes iirc
[2024-01-17 19:58:03] <Lucifer_arma> I feel like we're either not going to transition to 128 bit, or when we do, that'll be it for digital computers and whatever comes next (quantum computers?) is what's going to replace it
[2024-01-17 19:58:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I feel like we're either not going to transition to 128 bit, or when we do, that'll be it for digital computers and whatever comes next (quantum computers?) is what's going to replace it
[2024-01-17 19:58:03] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| deli is writing an essay i can see
[2024-01-17 19:58:04] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| deli is writing an essay i can see
[2024-01-17 19:58:23] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| quantum computing is scary
[2024-01-17 19:58:23] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| quantum computing is scary
[2024-01-17 19:58:34] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but yeah its the future
[2024-01-17 19:58:34] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but yeah its the future
[2024-01-17 19:58:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| The more I think about it, the more I think RISCV is going to end up being the go-to for graphical processing, rendering, big-chunk, and scalable dedi stuff. Arm has the advantage, though, of being extremely flexible, mich like x86/64. I'm also a little biased, because my DC runs Ampere architecture and I've grown very fond of it, but I can't deny that the ability to run scalable <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 19:58:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| The more I think about it, the more I think RISCV is going to end up being the go-to for graphical processing, rendering, big-chunk, and scalable dedi stuff. Arm has the advantage, though, of being extremely flexible, mich like x86/64. I'm also a little biased, because my DC runs Ampere architecture and I've grown very fond of it, but I can't deny that the ability to run scalable <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 19:58:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| VMs with varying workloads at considerably reduced power requirement is a no-brainer. I can even run a VM to emulate the x64 platform if I need to, which is helpful given my need to run .NET in the wild. When it comes to massively scaled complex data, though, RISCV has definite advantages - assuming I can get the hardware built for the workload that is.
[2024-01-17 19:58:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| VMs with varying workloads at considerably reduced power requirement is a no-brainer. I can even run a VM to emulate the x64 platform if I need to, which is helpful given my need to run .NET in the wild. When it comes to massively scaled complex data, though, RISCV has definite advantages - assuming I can get the hardware built for the workload that is.
[2024-01-17 20:00:28] <Lucifer_arma> the big question is if riscv can get serious traction before arm assimilates it. Arm's flexibility is its killer feature. I mean, my database server has 8 cores, where four are arm7 and four are arm5, and when it's idling, it uses the arm5 ones to save power
[2024-01-17 20:00:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the big question is if riscv can get serious traction before arm assimilates it. Arm's flexibility is its killer feature. I mean, my database server has 8 cores, where four are arm7 and four are arm5, and when it's idling, it uses the arm5 ones to save power
[2024-01-17 20:01:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also we don't have true quantum entanglement yet, and we're decades if not centuries off it. I read a few prominent papers and they pretty much all say the same thing - we can *kind of* simulate entanglement, but it's not true entanglement because the atoms don't remain consistent when the environment changes. As soon as one side of the pair is altered, the entanglement breaks - <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 20:01:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| so essentially what we've done is spin up two identicle bicycle wheels and let them spin down together at the same time. Soon as you move one wheel, its inertia changes and they are no longer spinning identically.
[2024-01-17 20:01:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also we don't have true quantum entanglement yet, and we're decades if not centuries off it. I read a few prominent papers and they pretty much all say the same thing - we can *kind of* simulate entanglement, but it's not true entanglement because the atoms don't remain consistent when the environment changes. As soon as one side of the pair is altered, the entanglement breaks - <clipped message>
[2024-01-17 20:01:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| so essentially what we've done is spin up two identicle bicycle wheels and let them spin down together at the same time. Soon as you move one wheel, its inertia changes and they are no longer spinning identically.
[2024-01-17 20:02:10] <Lucifer_arma> apple did something similar with their new chip. I forget what it's called. And while they did a lot of proprietary assholery with it, too, they really showed what can be done, and there's a lot of chips coming on the market that are "server class"
[2024-01-17 20:02:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| apple did something similar with their new chip. I forget what it's called. And while they did a lot of proprietary assholery with it, too, they really showed what can be done, and there's a lot of chips coming on the market that are "server class"
[2024-01-17 20:02:24] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| 8 cores? pffffffff. My Altras have 80 cores apiece
[2024-01-17 20:02:24] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| 8 cores? pffffffff. My Altras have 80 cores apiece
[2024-01-17 20:02:45] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but it only cost me like $150
[2024-01-17 20:02:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, but it only cost me like $150
[2024-01-17 20:03:17] <Lucifer_arma> arm still has some work to penetrate the server market, but someone did put together a supercomputer with it
[2024-01-17 20:03:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| arm still has some work to penetrate the server market, but someone did put together a supercomputer with it
[2024-01-17 20:03:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya you got me beat, my DC was 'speeeeeeeennsive
[2024-01-17 20:03:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya you got me beat, my DC was 'speeeeeeeennsive
[2024-01-17 20:04:02] <Lucifer_arma> my cluster is coming in around $600, and has a total of 20 cores
[2024-01-17 20:04:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| my cluster is coming in around $600, and has a total of 20 cores
[2024-01-17 20:04:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| hey, no, they've pretty much *done* the groundwork. Ampere have three generations of server cpu out already
[2024-01-17 20:04:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| hey, no, they've pretty much *done* the groundwork. Ampere have three generations of server cpu out already
[2024-01-17 20:04:23] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| https://riscv.org/about/technical-steering-committee/
[2024-01-17 20:04:23] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| https://riscv.org/about/technical-steering-committee/
[2024-01-17 20:04:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh you're fucking shitting me monkey
[2024-01-17 20:04:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh you're fucking shitting me monkey
[2024-01-17 20:04:46] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| In that committee you will find people from Intel, Nvidia, Microsoft, Google ...
[2024-01-17 20:04:46] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| In that committee you will find people from Intel, Nvidia, Microsoft, Google ...
[2024-01-17 20:04:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| david chen
[2024-01-17 20:04:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| david chen
[2024-01-17 20:05:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| WAY to fuck over a project
[2024-01-17 20:05:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| WAY to fuck over a project
[2024-01-17 20:06:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh ffs
[2024-01-17 20:06:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh ffs
[2024-01-17 20:06:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| peter chun too
[2024-01-17 20:06:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| peter chun too
[2024-01-17 20:06:12] <Lucifer_arma> qualcomm, seagate
[2024-01-17 20:06:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| qualcomm, seagate
[2024-01-17 20:06:19] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| huawei
[2024-01-17 20:06:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| huawei
[2024-01-17 20:06:20] <Lucifer_arma> curiously, there's no AMD or Apple
[2024-01-17 20:06:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| curiously, there's no AMD or Apple
[2024-01-17 20:06:22] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| alibaba
[2024-01-17 20:06:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| alibaba
[2024-01-17 20:06:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I fucking guarantee it, RISCV is going nowhere for the time being
[2024-01-17 20:06:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I fucking guarantee it, RISCV is going nowhere for the time being
[2024-01-17 20:06:50] <Lucifer_arma> is it because amd, apple, and intel can't be in the same room together?
[2024-01-17 20:06:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| is it because amd, apple, and intel can't be in the same room together?
[2024-01-17 20:06:55] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| no
[2024-01-17 20:06:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| no
[2024-01-17 20:06:59] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| AMD will have to follow suit if Intel are going down the RISCV route. Apple ....i dont know what they will do
[2024-01-17 20:06:59] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| AMD will have to follow suit if Intel are going down the RISCV route. Apple ....i dont know what they will do
[2024-01-17 20:07:16] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| also no IBM btw
[2024-01-17 20:07:16] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| also no IBM btw
[2024-01-17 20:07:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Huawei is on the do-not-buy list. Alibaba is just bad news
[2024-01-17 20:07:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Huawei is on the do-not-buy list. Alibaba is just bad news
[2024-01-17 20:07:25] <Lucifer_arma> Apple's all in on arm right now.
[2024-01-17 20:07:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Apple's all in on arm right now.
[2024-01-17 20:07:36] <Lucifer_arma> ZTE is also on the do-not-buy list
[2024-01-17 20:07:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ZTE is also on the do-not-buy list
[2024-01-17 20:07:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| shit are they in there too
[2024-01-17 20:07:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| shit are they in there too
[2024-01-17 20:07:50] <Lucifer_arma> yep
[2024-01-17 20:07:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yep
[2024-01-17 20:08:06] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ugh so is tencent
[2024-01-17 20:08:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ugh so is tencent
[2024-01-17 20:08:12] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| sorry monkey
[2024-01-17 20:08:12] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| sorry monkey
[2024-01-17 20:08:25] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hey dont blame me
[2024-01-17 20:08:26] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hey dont blame me
[2024-01-17 20:08:26] <Lucifer_arma> it's an impressive assortment, but it looks like a lot of people are there just to keep an eye on it
[2024-01-17 20:08:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's an impressive assortment, but it looks like a lot of people are there just to keep an eye on it
[2024-01-17 20:08:44] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| it hasnt snowballed yet but i think it will soon
[2024-01-17 20:08:44] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| it hasnt snowballed yet but i think it will soon
[2024-01-17 20:09:21] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| nah, not blaming you, just a damn shame. Those four being involved basically guarantees that anything RISCV attempts will have to be on a manufacturing platform at least three or four generations old
[2024-01-17 20:09:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| nah, not blaming you, just a damn shame. Those four being involved basically guarantees that anything RISCV attempts will have to be on a manufacturing platform at least three or four generations old
[2024-01-17 20:09:44] <Lucifer_arma> it's also going to limit US involvement
[2024-01-17 20:09:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's also going to limit US involvement
[2024-01-17 20:09:58] <Lucifer_arma> there's no way that shit is going into us government hardware, military or otherwise
[2024-01-17 20:09:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there's no way that shit is going into us government hardware, military or otherwise
[2024-01-17 20:10:01] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| maybe more than that actually. Isn't the restriction up to 10nm?
[2024-01-17 20:10:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| maybe more than that actually. Isn't the restriction up to 10nm?
[2024-01-17 20:10:14] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| dependent on application I think
[2024-01-17 20:10:14] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| dependent on application I think
[2024-01-17 20:10:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| it's not just the US either. It's the UK, most of Europe, Oceanie
[2024-01-17 20:10:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| it's not just the US either. It's the UK, most of Europe, Oceanie
[2024-01-17 20:10:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| *oceania
[2024-01-17 20:10:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| *oceania
[2024-01-17 20:10:48] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| No offence but the US will be a third world country by the time China has taken over
[2024-01-17 20:10:49] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| No offence but the US will be a third world country by the time China has taken over
[2024-01-17 20:10:49] <Lucifer_arma> theoretically, as an open standard, those guys being there shouldn't be a problem as long as the hardware comes from other people
[2024-01-17 20:10:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| theoretically, as an open standard, those guys being there shouldn't be a problem as long as the hardware comes from other people
[2024-01-17 20:11:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Technically yes
[2024-01-17 20:11:03] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Technically yes
[2024-01-17 20:11:10] <Lucifer_arma> we already crossed over into third world status then the canadian dollar traded higher than the US dollar
[2024-01-17 20:11:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we already crossed over into third world status then the canadian dollar traded higher than the US dollar
[2024-01-17 20:11:15] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| but their involvement is going to turn a lot of skilled people away
[2024-01-17 20:11:15] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| but their involvement is going to turn a lot of skilled people away
[2024-01-17 20:11:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| wat
[2024-01-17 20:11:23] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| wat
[2024-01-17 20:11:31] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| lol in the UK brexit sealed our fate as third world too
[2024-01-17 20:11:31] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| lol in the UK brexit sealed our fate as third world too
[2024-01-17 20:11:31] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the canadian rupee is higher than the dollarydoo?
[2024-01-17 20:11:32] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the canadian rupee is higher than the dollarydoo?
[2024-01-17 20:11:39] <Lucifer_arma> jeez, that was back in the 2008 recession
[2024-01-17 20:11:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| jeez, that was back in the 2008 recession
[2024-01-17 20:11:43] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| o
[2024-01-17 20:11:43] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| o
[2024-01-17 20:12:07] <Lucifer_arma> my brother was working for a canadian company at the time, so he got a raise :)
[2024-01-17 20:12:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| my brother was working for a canadian company at the time, so he got a raise :)
[2024-01-17 20:12:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I was a little twerp on a skateboard back then
[2024-01-17 20:12:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I was a little twerp on a skateboard back then
[2024-01-17 20:12:23] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I kinda knew about the recession but it didn't really mean much to me
[2024-01-17 20:12:23] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I kinda knew about the recession but it didn't really mean much to me
[2024-01-17 20:12:39] <Lucifer_arma> oh, it fucked me. I've only recently recovered financially from it
[2024-01-17 20:12:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh, it fucked me. I've only recently recovered financially from it
[2024-01-17 20:12:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| wait
[2024-01-17 20:12:57] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| wait
[2024-01-17 20:12:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| hol up
[2024-01-17 20:12:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| hol up
[2024-01-17 20:13:12] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Sergey Yakushkin
[2024-01-17 20:13:12] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Sergey Yakushkin
[2024-01-17 20:13:15] <Lucifer_arma> there is still google and intel in there
[2024-01-17 20:13:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there is still google and intel in there
[2024-01-17 20:13:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I knew I recognised that name
[2024-01-17 20:13:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I knew I recognised that name
[2024-01-17 20:13:32] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Russian chiplet designer
[2024-01-17 20:13:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Russian chiplet designer
[2024-01-17 20:13:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| sanctioned completely
[2024-01-17 20:13:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| sanctioned completely
[2024-01-17 20:13:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| can't do any business at all with anyone in the west
[2024-01-17 20:13:52] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| can't do any business at all with anyone in the west
[2024-01-17 20:14:17] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| and last I heard all their design partners pulled out
[2024-01-17 20:14:17] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| and last I heard all their design partners pulled out
[2024-01-17 20:14:25] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| which included, incidentally, arm
[2024-01-17 20:14:25] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| which included, incidentally, arm
[2024-01-17 20:14:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| wow, it really has been a shit few years
[2024-01-17 20:14:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| wow, it really has been a shit few years
[2024-01-17 21:10:39] <-- DruidMonroe has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
[2024-01-17 21:17:13] <Lucifer_arma> it might be about to get worse. Have you been paying attention to the US election?
[2024-01-17 21:17:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it might be about to get worse. Have you been paying attention to the US election?
[2024-01-17 22:19:19] <Lucifer_arma> well, based on what I was just reading, gcc should be expected to outperform msvc pretty regularly. If you really want to switch compilers for higher performing builds, you should switch to clang, which narrowly beats gcc in a few cases
[2024-01-17 22:19:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, based on what I was just reading, gcc should be expected to outperform msvc pretty regularly. If you really want to switch compilers for higher performing builds, you should switch to clang, which narrowly beats gcc in a few cases
[2024-01-17 22:19:44] <Lucifer_arma> so I've changed my mind. I don't see a point to supporting msvc
[2024-01-17 22:19:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so I've changed my mind. I don't see a point to supporting msvc
[2024-01-17 22:46:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| just check gentoo for the vast amount of configurable options in many packages
[2024-01-17 22:46:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| just check gentoo for the vast amount of configurable options in many packages
[2024-01-17 22:46:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| arma isnt the only one
[2024-01-17 22:46:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| arma isnt the only one
[2024-01-17 22:46:20] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh, i guess things change a bit
[2024-01-17 22:46:20] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh, i guess things change a bit
[2024-01-17 22:46:37] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| for an operating system msvc is better or something, or it was a few years ago
[2024-01-17 22:46:37] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| for an operating system msvc is better or something, or it was a few years ago
[2024-01-17 22:46:49] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| eg reactos
[2024-01-17 22:46:50] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| eg reactos
[2024-01-17 22:47:37] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i did ask if you had actually tested that claim ๐
[2024-01-17 22:47:37] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i did ask if you had actually tested that claim ๐
[2024-01-17 23:23:41] <Lucifer_arma> it's actually sensible to expect both gcc and clang to outperform msvc. Both have huge communities supporting them, as well as cpu vendors optimizing for their own cpus.
[2024-01-17 23:23:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's actually sensible to expect both gcc and clang to outperform msvc. Both have huge communities supporting them, as well as cpu vendors optimizing for their own cpus.
[2024-01-17 23:24:03] <Lucifer_arma> Additionally, several cpu vendors, including apple and intel, use clang as the base for their own compilers
[2024-01-17 23:24:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Additionally, several cpu vendors, including apple and intel, use clang as the base for their own compilers
[2024-01-17 23:24:56] <Lucifer_arma> gcc does a lot of its optimizations in the middle, after translating the source tree to its internal representation, so every language it supports gets the optimizations, as well as contributes optimizations
[2024-01-17 23:24:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| gcc does a lot of its optimizations in the middle, after translating the source tree to its internal representation, so every language it supports gets the optimizations, as well as contributes optimizations
[2024-01-17 23:25:37] <Lucifer_arma> both clang and gcc do another round of optimizations in the linker, so the results of that round are going to be dependent on cpu support, of course
[2024-01-17 23:25:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| both clang and gcc do another round of optimizations in the linker, so the results of that round are going to be dependent on cpu support, of course
[2024-01-17 23:26:04] <Lucifer_arma> aaaaand, cpu vendors upstream optimizations for their cpus to both clang and gcc
[2024-01-17 23:26:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| aaaaand, cpu vendors upstream optimizations for their cpus to both clang and gcc
[2024-01-17 23:27:20] <Lucifer_arma> I thought it had to be wrong that msvc was still generating higher performing code, since gcc had reached parity when we made the decision to drop msvc and embrace mingw. It didn't make sense to me that msvc would have done better.
[2024-01-17 23:27:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I thought it had to be wrong that msvc was still generating higher performing code, since gcc had reached parity when we made the decision to drop msvc and embrace mingw. It didn't make sense to me that msvc would have done better.
[2024-01-17 23:28:04] <Lucifer_arma> now, it's true that msvc can still generate faster code for windows applications because it has what you'd call special knowledge of windows internals
[2024-01-17 23:28:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| now, it's true that msvc can still generate faster code for windows applications because it has what you'd call special knowledge of windows internals
[2024-01-17 23:28:17] <Lucifer_arma> it makes me wonder if you could build windows with gcc, would you get a faster OS?
[2024-01-17 23:28:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it makes me wonder if you could build windows with gcc, would you get a faster OS?
[2024-01-17 23:28:56] <Lucifer_arma> Anyway, I found someone who found that his gcc-built benchmark suite on a raspberry pi outperformed the same suite built with msvc on his desktop
[2024-01-17 23:28:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Anyway, I found someone who found that his gcc-built benchmark suite on a raspberry pi outperformed the same suite built with msvc on his desktop
[2024-01-17 23:30:43] <Lucifer_arma> for security, I would expect gcc specifically to generate safer code, and there's some information to suggest that that's true, but I haven't found anything that resembles proof
[2024-01-17 23:30:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| for security, I would expect gcc specifically to generate safer code, and there's some information to suggest that that's true, but I haven't found anything that resembles proof
[2024-01-17 23:34:24] <Lucifer_arma> also, riscv looks like it's in better shape than our look at the steering committee would have indicated.
[2024-01-17 23:34:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, riscv looks like it's in better shape than our look at the steering committee would have indicated.
[2024-01-17 23:35:12] <Lucifer_arma> all of the initial development was done before any of the more questionable individuals joined, so you could have a complete general purpose CPU ISA without needing any of their work
[2024-01-17 23:35:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| all of the initial development was done before any of the more questionable individuals joined, so you could have a complete general purpose CPU ISA without needing any of their work
[2024-01-17 23:35:29] <Lucifer_arma> it really looks more like they're just there to facilitate their own companies' cpu development
[2024-01-17 23:35:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it really looks more like they're just there to facilitate their own companies' cpu development
[2024-01-17 23:37:50] <Lucifer_arma> but it looks like the biggest reason to prefer msvc over gcc is either because you're using the ide, or you really need to use a newer c++ standard and gcc's biggest criticism is that it's slow to take up new c++ standards
[2024-01-17 23:37:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but it looks like the biggest reason to prefer msvc over gcc is either because you're using the ide, or you really need to use a newer c++ standard and gcc's biggest criticism is that it's slow to take up new c++ standards
[2024-01-17 23:38:08] <Lucifer_arma> curiously, clang doesn't have that criticism and is roughly comparable to gcc
[2024-01-17 23:38:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| curiously, clang doesn't have that criticism and is roughly comparable to gcc
[2024-01-17 23:38:26] <Lucifer_arma> so, if there's anything we should do to support clang, I think I could get behind that :)
[2024-01-17 23:38:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so, if there's anything we should do to support clang, I think I could get behind that :)
[2024-01-17 23:38:50] <Lucifer_arma> (to nobody's surprise, someone singing the virtues of msvc led to me liking another open source compiler)
[2024-01-17 23:38:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (to nobody's surprise, someone singing the virtues of msvc led to me liking another open source compiler)
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[2024-01-18 01:05:44] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| as far as i know, armagetron supports clang in that it will build and run no problem
[2024-01-18 01:05:44] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| as far as i know, armagetron supports clang in that it will build and run no problem
[2024-01-18 01:06:14] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i believe z-man put effort into making sure that it does, in fact, build under clang and run at some point
[2024-01-18 01:06:15] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i believe z-man put effort into making sure that it does, in fact, build under clang and run at some point
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[2024-01-18 15:09:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see neat
[2024-01-18 15:09:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i see neat
[2024-01-18 15:09:53] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| apparently armagetronad is not compatible with arch build flags
[2024-01-18 15:09:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| apparently armagetronad is not compatible with arch build flags
[2024-01-18 15:10:36] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Lucifer_arma: which compiler?
[2024-01-18 15:10:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Lucifer_arma: which compiler?
[2024-01-18 15:11:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| msvc used to be stuck in the past as far as c++ standards go
[2024-01-18 15:11:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| msvc used to be stuck in the past as far as c++ standards go
[2024-01-18 15:36:57] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| clang
[2024-01-18 15:36:57] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| clang
[2024-01-18 15:38:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh
[2024-01-18 15:38:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh
[2024-01-18 15:46:13] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| well, good, please tell me how to compile natively in macos with xcode toolchain and without autoconf/automake present
[2024-01-18 15:46:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| well, good, please tell me how to compile natively in macos with xcode toolchain and without autoconf/automake present
[2024-01-18 15:47:11] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 sorry to bother you again, but: are you open to add macos compatibility to the winlibs repository?
[2024-01-18 15:47:11] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| @zman_0 sorry to bother you again, but: are you open to add macos compatibility to the winlibs repository?
[2024-01-18 15:47:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd like to integrate it like bzflag does
[2024-01-18 15:47:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i'd like to integrate it like bzflag does
[2024-01-18 16:00:13] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| or at least in a similar fashion
[2024-01-18 16:00:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| or at least in a similar fashion
[2024-01-18 17:00:18] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| @Juesto Nah, winlibs is for Windows. If you need something for macOS, that needs to go into maclibs, logically.
[2024-01-18 17:00:18] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| @Juesto Nah, winlibs is for Windows. If you need something for macOS, that needs to go into maclibs, logically.
[2024-01-18 17:00:18] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| What might be sensible: A small, codeless CMake/Conan based side repository, or even just a conanfile.txt, that can be used on macOS and Windows to fetch and build our dependencies so that they are available under a fixed path and xcode and code::blocks can just use that. It would also make it easier to switch compilers on Windows, just tell the thing to use a different toolchain <clipped message>
[2024-01-18 17:00:19] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| What might be sensible: A small, codeless CMake/Conan based side repository, or even just a conanfile.txt, that can be used on macOS and Windows to fetch and build our dependencies so that they are available under a fixed path and xcode and code::blocks can just use that. It would also make it easier to switch compilers on Windows, just tell the thing to use a different toolchain <clipped message>
[2024-01-18 17:00:20] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| , whatever you need.
[2024-01-18 17:00:20] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| , whatever you need.
[2024-01-18 17:04:31] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: CMake, I think, supports every system worth supporting. I mean, console builds are cross compiles, always, so it does not have to do much to support them. And for the flexibility of our current build system, that kind of also is a curse. We only need very little of it. Rebranding all the filenames for -experimental builds and Retrocycles. The rest is all for common problems, determining installation folders and stuff, compiler
[2024-01-18 17:04:31] <Z-Man> and linker flags, all problems everyone else has, too; they are bound to be easily solvable canonically.
[2024-01-18 17:04:31] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: CMake, I think, supports every system worth supporting. I mean, console builds are cross compiles, always, so it does not have to do much to support them. And for the flexibility of our current build system, that kind of also is a curse. We only need very little of it. Rebranding all the filenames for -experimental builds and Retrocycles. The rest is all for common <clipped message>
[2024-01-18 17:04:31] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| problems, determining installation folders and stuff, compiler
[2024-01-18 17:04:33] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| and linker flags, all problems everyone else has, too; they are bound to be easily solvable canonically.
[2024-01-18 17:05:35] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Z-Man: yeah that would be nice
[2024-01-18 17:05:36] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Z-Man: yeah that would be nice
[2024-01-18 17:06:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| Most of what windows needs is available on linux and macos easily for source compilation that is compatible with xcode
[2024-01-18 17:06:00] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| Most of what windows needs is available on linux and macos easily for source compilation that is compatible with xcode
[2024-01-18 17:06:15] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ideally, a relative path
[2024-01-18 17:06:15] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ideally, a relative path
[2024-01-18 17:09:37] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, of course a relative path ๐ And you're right, I could even get that thing started on Linux, it just would not be used there.
[2024-01-18 17:09:38] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Yeah, of course a relative path ๐ And you're right, I could even get that thing started on Linux, it just would not be used there.
[2024-01-18 17:10:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| winlibs already contains multiplatform stuff
[2024-01-18 17:10:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| winlibs already contains multiplatform stuff
[2024-01-18 17:10:51] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I've compiled some programs that use CMake and things have gone smoothly every time for me. Some people use Ninja with it, I can't even rememer what Ninja does to be honest. Then there's Meson (which Wayland uses as it's build system). That's all python though IIRC.
[2024-01-18 17:10:51] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| I've compiled some programs that use CMake and things have gone smoothly every time for me. Some people use Ninja with it, I can't even rememer what Ninja does to be honest. Then there's Meson (which Wayland uses as it's build system). That's all python though IIRC.
[2024-01-18 17:10:52] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| so why not put those platforms together?
[2024-01-18 17:10:53] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| so why not put those platforms together?
[2024-01-18 17:11:05] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| platform libraries
[2024-01-18 17:11:06] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| platform libraries
[2024-01-18 17:11:27] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Sorta. Not for all of the libraries. It's not a good starting point, also it is big.
[2024-01-18 17:11:27] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Sorta. Not for all of the libraries. It's not a good starting point, also it is big.
[2024-01-18 17:11:31] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| not a big fan of cmake or conan but sure
[2024-01-18 17:11:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| not a big fan of cmake or conan but sure
[2024-01-18 17:11:33] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay hmm
[2024-01-18 17:11:34] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| okay hmm
[2024-01-18 17:11:45] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| what's wrong with CMake?
[2024-01-18 17:11:46] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| what's wrong with CMake?
[2024-01-18 17:11:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| at least, sdl, zlib, openssl
[2024-01-18 17:11:48] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| at least, sdl, zlib, openssl
[2024-01-18 17:12:00] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont remember what armagetronad uses
[2024-01-18 17:12:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| i dont remember what armagetronad uses
[2024-01-18 17:12:50] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| Now that I think about it, the right place for the conanfile would be the main source module. It's bound to be small, and will need to change with the main source. For winlibs, we reference the revision to use in the main source module, kind of like a handmade git submodule (famously terrible to use).
[2024-01-18 17:12:50] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| Now that I think about it, the right place for the conanfile would be the main source module. It's bound to be small, and will need to change with the main source. For winlibs, we reference the revision to use in the main source module, kind of like a handmade git submodule (famously terrible to use).
[2024-01-18 17:14:13] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| CMake is simpler and quicker than GNU autotools, IMO.
[2024-01-18 17:14:13] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| CMake is simpler and quicker than GNU autotools, IMO.
[2024-01-18 17:15:36] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh so Ninja is to replace Make ok
[2024-01-18 17:15:36] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh so Ninja is to replace Make ok
[2024-01-18 17:21:23] <armagetron-bridge> 12discord:zman_0| (All build system talk is hypothetical, as far as I am concerned. What little time I invested in the last three years mostly went into build system stuff. It's fine now. I hate it, of course, but I also don't want to touch anything that would break it)
[2024-01-18 17:21:23] <armagetronbridge> 12discord:zman_0| (All build system talk is hypothetical, as far as I am concerned. What little time I invested in the last three years mostly went into build system stuff. It's fine now. I hate it, of course, but I also don't want to touch anything that would break it)
[2024-01-18 17:23:31] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| OK
[2024-01-18 17:23:32] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| OK
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[2024-01-18 23:33:36] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think I know cmake well enough to tackle arma with it, yet. I mean, I know it well enough to get arma built and running in the source directory. Last time I was fiddling with it, I was working on installing stuff and running into issues
[2024-01-18 23:33:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't think I know cmake well enough to tackle arma with it, yet. I mean, I know it well enough to get arma built and running in the source directory. Last time I was fiddling with it, I was working on installing stuff and running into issues
[2024-01-18 23:34:18] <Lucifer_arma> it very well may be that the build system shouldn't be the install system and we'd be better off writing our own installer script, like in python, and plugging that into cmake
[2024-01-18 23:34:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it very well may be that the build system shouldn't be the install system and we'd be better off writing our own installer script, like in python, and plugging that into cmake
[2024-01-18 23:37:39] <Lucifer_arma> but the switch to cmake should be a lot more complicated than the switch from make to autotools, so yeah, hypothetical ;)
[2024-01-18 23:37:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but the switch to cmake should be a lot more complicated than the switch from make to autotools, so yeah, hypothetical ;)
[2024-01-18 23:38:27] <Lucifer_arma> but if it turned out that cmake and conan work so well together that managing dependencies on other platforms and while cross compiling becomes a breeze, I'd start fiddling with it in my down time.
[2024-01-18 23:38:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but if it turned out that cmake and conan work so well together that managing dependencies on other platforms and while cross compiling becomes a breeze, I'd start fiddling with it in my down time.
[2024-01-18 23:38:49] <Lucifer_arma> I want to learn more cmake, and it's surprisingly helpful to start with something where you already know what the end result should look like
[2024-01-18 23:38:50] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I want to learn more cmake, and it's surprisingly helpful to start with something where you already know what the end result should look like
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[2024-01-19 23:17:13] <Lucifer_arma> after sitting on that a bit, I'm actually interested in checking this out. Specifically, switching to cmake for building and writing out own installer build scripts that also install on posix systems
[2024-01-19 23:17:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| after sitting on that a bit, I'm actually interested in checking this out. Specifically, switching to cmake for building and writing out own installer build scripts that also install on posix systems
[2024-01-19 23:17:49] <Lucifer_arma> on windows and on mac os x, are there sufficient commandline apps/frameworks available to python that we could build the installers from a python script?
[2024-01-19 23:17:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| on windows and on mac os x, are there sufficient commandline apps/frameworks available to python that we could build the installers from a python script?
[2024-01-19 23:18:20] <Lucifer_arma> for the guy wanting xcode support, I have a memory of cmake being able to generate xcode project files
[2024-01-19 23:18:21] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| for the guy wanting xcode support, I have a memory of cmake being able to generate xcode project files
[2024-01-19 23:19:18] <Lucifer_arma> also, for a developer working on arma in a windows context specifically, but potentially also mac, how easy is it to work with cmake?
[2024-01-19 23:19:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, for a developer working on arma in a windows context specifically, but potentially also mac, how easy is it to work with cmake?
[2024-01-19 23:19:48] <Lucifer_arma> so the whole stack including dependency management would be conan for dependencies, cmake for building, our custom python script to put together the distributables
[2024-01-19 23:19:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so the whole stack including dependency management would be conan for dependencies, cmake for building, our custom python script to put together the distributables
[2024-01-19 23:21:02] <Lucifer_arma> I've recently written some python code to manage dependencies in linux that can replace the configure script. How much of the checks that configure does are actually useful? I mean, do we really need configure to determine endianness?
[2024-01-19 23:21:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've recently written some python code to manage dependencies in linux that can replace the configure script. How much of the checks that configure does are actually useful? I mean, do we really need configure to determine endianness?
[2024-01-19 23:25:27] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: ?
[2024-01-19 23:25:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: ?
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[2024-01-20 09:07:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't think there's a non-commandline python installer for windows, but there are projects that use Inno to run a python script. You could theoretically use the portable winpython library to run an installation script, using the Inno installer to create the filestructure.
[2024-01-20 09:07:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't think there's a non-commandline python installer for windows, but there are projects that use Inno to run a python script. You could theoretically use the portable winpython library to run an installation script, using the Inno installer to create the filestructure.
[2024-01-20 09:07:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| There's an example of a standalone python application alongside Inno here: https://cyrille.rossant.net/create-a-standalone-windows-installer-for-your-python-application/
[2024-01-20 09:07:05] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| There's an example of a standalone python application alongside Inno here: https://cyrille.rossant.net/create-a-standalone-windows-installer-for-your-python-application/
[2024-01-20 09:08:03] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's not *quite* what you're after, but it might be adaptable enough to our requirements. You could even use the installer to launch a python script that *builds* armagetron in-situ, although that would take a little time and would require a number of other tools.
[2024-01-20 09:08:03] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| That's not *quite* what you're after, but it might be adaptable enough to our requirements. You could even use the installer to launch a python script that *builds* armagetron in-situ, although that would take a little time and would require a number of other tools.
[2024-01-20 11:43:48] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the python installer accepts silent installation i believe
[2024-01-20 11:43:49] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the python installer accepts silent installation i believe
[2024-01-20 11:44:12] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the python installer on windows is a gui one
[2024-01-20 11:44:13] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the python installer on windows is a gui one
[2024-01-20 11:44:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| ¯\_(ใ)_/¯
[2024-01-20 11:44:28] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| ¯\_(ใ)_/¯
[2024-01-20 11:45:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| yes i know that cmake can generate xcode, msvc project files
[2024-01-20 11:45:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| yes i know that cmake can generate xcode, msvc project files
[2024-01-20 16:18:49] <Z-Man> Lucifer_arma: All the installer builder scripts right now are shell/batch scripts. So yeah, Python should work fine for them, too. The Unix and macOS scripts rely on the autotools generated 'make install' to produce something sensible if you tell it to install into a custom root directory, they build from there.
[2024-01-20 16:18:49] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Lucifer_arma: All the installer builder scripts right now are shell/batch scripts. So yeah, Python should work fine for them, too. The Unix and macOS scripts rely on the autotools generated 'make install' to produce something sensible if you tell it to install into a custom root directory, they build from there.
[2024-01-20 16:19:24] <Z-Man> Apparently, cmake has support for building a couple of installers already: https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/manual/cpack-generators.7.html#manual:cpack-generators(7) NSIS for Windows is one.
[2024-01-20 16:19:24] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Apparently, cmake has support for building a couple of installers already: https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/manual/cpack-generators.7.html#manual:cpack-generators(7) NSIS for Windows is one.
[2024-01-20 16:20:30] <Z-Man> And a replacement for our current 'make install' would be `cmake --build . --target INSTALL`, according to this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48428647/how-to-use-cmake-to-install
[2024-01-20 16:20:30] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| And a replacement for our current 'make install' would be `cmake --build . --target INSTALL`, according to this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/48428647/how-to-use-cmake-to-install
[2024-01-20 16:21:28] <Z-Man> I'm not too keen on replacing the existing shell scripts with python scripts. They don't have to do a lot of logic, but have to call a lot of external programs.
[2024-01-20 16:21:29] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| I'm not too keen on replacing the existing shell scripts with python scripts. They don't have to do a lot of logic, but have to call a lot of external programs.
[2024-01-20 16:22:32] <Z-Man> Of course, one thing I personally tend to do often in scripts of this kind, whenever I need to modify a file: I just call 'sed' with some replacements on it. Or write it in a here-document with variable substitutions. Those things are probably more elegant in Python.
[2024-01-20 16:22:33] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Of course, one thing I personally tend to do often in scripts of this kind, whenever I need to modify a file: I just call 'sed' with some replacements on it. Or write it in a here-document with variable substitutions. Those things are probably more elegant in Python.
[2024-01-20 16:25:19] <Z-Man> Cmake also supports DESTDIR, which is what is used in packaging a lot: https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/envvar/DESTDIR.html I assume if you build makefiles via cmake, 'make install' already does what you expect.
[2024-01-20 16:25:19] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Cmake also supports DESTDIR, which is what is used in packaging a lot: https://cmake.org/cmake/help/latest/envvar/DESTDIR.html I assume if you build makefiles via cmake, 'make install' already does what you expect.
[2024-01-20 16:26:26] <Z-Man> And CMake and Conan are both big on cross compilation. Essentially, you just give them a toolchain definition file and they stick to it.
[2024-01-20 16:26:26] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| And CMake and Conan are both big on cross compilation. Essentially, you just give them a toolchain definition file and they stick to it.
[2024-01-20 16:27:21] <Z-Man> Well, try to. When trying to do that to your Cerritos Engine, cross compiling from Linux to Windows, the toolchain was not properly passed along to a second level dependency. Nobody is perfect.
[2024-01-20 16:27:21] <armagetronbridge> 15irc:Z-Man| Well, try to. When trying to do that to your Cerritos Engine, cross compiling from Linux to Windows, the toolchain was not properly passed along to a second level dependency. Nobody is perfect.
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[2024-01-20 22:31:55] <Lucifer_arma> well, the only reason for the python script to build the installers/distributables is because it would be cross platform. We would end up with the same series of commands in the instructions to build and install from source for every platform.
[2024-01-20 22:31:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, the only reason for the python script to build the installers/distributables is because it would be cross platform. We would end up with the same series of commands in the instructions to build and install from source for every platform.
[2024-01-20 22:32:32] <Lucifer_arma> even if all it did on some platforms was just invoke "make install" or "cmake --build --target install" like you have there
[2024-01-20 22:32:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| even if all it did on some platforms was just invoke "make install" or "cmake --build --target install" like you have there
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[2024-01-21 04:59:29] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:Jip| Just stepping by again after a while, how is everybody? ๐
[2024-01-21 04:59:30] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:Jip| Just stepping by again after a while, how is everybody? ๐
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[2024-01-21 09:52:31] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| well, it should be possible to have support for an autoconf-less setup
[2024-01-21 09:52:31] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| well, it should be possible to have support for an autoconf-less setup
[2024-01-21 09:52:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the dependencies should be easy to obtain on mac without brew/ports
[2024-01-21 09:52:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the dependencies should be easy to obtain on mac without brew/ports
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[2024-01-21 10:47:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| wb! still going strong, tournaments every month, development still ongoing. What modes you play?
[2024-01-21 10:47:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| wb! still going strong, tournaments every month, development still ongoing. What modes you play?
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[2024-01-21 22:45:18] <Lucifer_arma> Z-Man: for some reason I'm remembering cmake not writing an install target into the makefiles. I'll have to take another look, since I'm looking at using cmake for everything else anyway. When starting a project from scratch, building CMakeLists is pretty easy :)
[2024-01-21 22:45:18] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Z-Man: for some reason I'm remembering cmake not writing an install target into the makefiles. I'll have to take another look, since I'm looking at using cmake for everything else anyway. When starting a project from scratch, building CMakeLists is pretty easy :)
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[2024-01-22 13:39:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Started putting together a timeline for my novel series because keeping track of stuff is *hard*. Didn't realise just how much "future history" I had in mind. Also didn't realise how complex I made this. Why do I do these things to myself?
[2024-01-22 13:39:57] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Started putting together a timeline for my novel series because keeping track of stuff is *hard*. Didn't realise just how much "future history" I had in mind. Also didn't realise how complex I made this. Why do I do these things to myself?
[2024-01-22 16:41:51] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSwUwwM5ZZQ
[2024-01-22 16:41:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSwUwwM5ZZQ
[2024-01-22 16:51:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: Also relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFMvesTUjAA
[2024-01-22 16:51:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: Also relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFMvesTUjAA
[2024-01-22 16:54:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| My company is embedded with an R&D firm atm working on a light vehicle mounted anti-drone system based on a similar concept, with a little more manual control. The design atm pretty much runs off a welding rig and a little 5kw generator, sat in the back of a toyota. Be wicked if we could actually deliver one
[2024-01-22 16:54:19] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| My company is embedded with an R&D firm atm working on a light vehicle mounted anti-drone system based on a similar concept, with a little more manual control. The design atm pretty much runs off a welding rig and a little 5kw generator, sat in the back of a toyota. Be wicked if we could actually deliver one
[2024-01-22 16:56:12] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| also gets slightly more interesting when you realsie we had a successful test of a laser anti-air system a good six or seven years ago, only it needed a ridiculous amount of power at the time
[2024-01-22 16:56:12] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| also gets slightly more interesting when you realsie we had a successful test of a laser anti-air system a good six or seven years ago, only it needed a ridiculous amount of power at the time
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[2024-01-22 19:18:22] <Lucifer_arma> lasers are definitely going to be a big part of warfare in the future, and I'm really not sure if that's going to be for the best
[2024-01-22 19:18:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| lasers are definitely going to be a big part of warfare in the future, and I'm really not sure if that's going to be for the best
[2024-01-22 19:18:51] <Lucifer_arma> I mean, on the one hand, firing lasers doesn't create unexploded ordnance the way bombs and missiles and shells do. On the other hand, their targets will be unexploded ordnance. :/
[2024-01-22 19:18:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I mean, on the one hand, firing lasers doesn't create unexploded ordnance the way bombs and missiles and shells do. On the other hand, their targets will be unexploded ordnance. :/
[2024-01-22 19:19:57] <Lucifer_arma> I'm curious how they do against animals. Like, will they leave animals horrifically burned, or will they kill them quickly and (relatively speaking) humanely?
[2024-01-22 19:19:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm curious how they do against animals. Like, will they leave animals horrifically burned, or will they kill them quickly and (relatively speaking) humanely?
[2024-01-22 19:24:20] <Lucifer_arma> I think I'm going to do my next video on post-scarcity, but I need to download a bunch of star trek so I can put clips of replicators in it :)
[2024-01-22 19:24:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think I'm going to do my next video on post-scarcity, but I need to download a bunch of star trek so I can put clips of replicators in it :)
[2024-01-22 19:32:42] <Lucifer_arma> it's either that or I whine about how terrible the newest tron movie is
[2024-01-22 19:32:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's either that or I whine about how terrible the newest tron movie is
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[2024-01-22 19:49:51] <Lucifer_arma> nope, it's going to be a video about my first book. :) I think I'm going to shoot it today and see if I can get it posted later tonight.
[2024-01-22 19:49:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| nope, it's going to be a video about my first book. :) I think I'm going to shoot it today and see if I can get it posted later tonight.
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[2024-01-23 01:08:13] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I fucking fell on the ice and messed up my arm pretty bad. Thought it was broken, but seems to be a little better after an hour now. Feel bad for me, I can't type or even use a mouse goddamnit!
[2024-01-23 01:08:13] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I fucking fell on the ice and messed up my arm pretty bad. Thought it was broken, but seems to be a little better after an hour now. Feel bad for me, I can't type or even use a mouse goddamnit!
[2024-01-23 01:35:53] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Johnny| That sucks man . Yah one bad fall can be life changing. Glad it went broken
[2024-01-23 01:35:54] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Johnny| That sucks man . Yah one bad fall can be life changing. Glad it went broken
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[2024-01-23 08:19:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: Any new weapons system is going to be misused by *somebody*. There's no two ways about it. You can't get away from creating new systems and platforms either, because then the less corrigible among us will succeed us in that development.
[2024-01-23 08:19:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Lucifer_arma: Any new weapons system is going to be misused by *somebody*. There's no two ways about it. You can't get away from creating new systems and platforms either, because then the less corrigible among us will succeed us in that development.
[2024-01-23 08:19:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| These fancy new lasers, though, have one distinct feature that theoretically protects non-combatants - and that's focal length. Even these fancy new solid state lasers need some sort of phase change, which makes the outgoing light conical in shape. That guarantees a reduction in intensity with distance, meaning that anything that refracts from the ionosphere is likely too unfocus <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 08:19:40] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| These fancy new lasers, though, have one distinct feature that theoretically protects non-combatants - and that's focal length. Even these fancy new solid state lasers need some sort of phase change, which makes the outgoing light conical in shape. That guarantees a reduction in intensity with distance, meaning that anything that refracts from the ionosphere is likely too unfocus <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 08:19:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ed to do anything to anyone.
[2024-01-23 08:19:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ed to do anything to anyone.
[2024-01-23 08:19:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for handheld weaponry, I don't think we'll be seeing laser rifles any time soon. The apparatus is much too delicate to be encased in something that small and that vulnerable. However, there is a different avenue that we coul dtake, and that's plasma. A theoretical plasma rifle (jfc hello halo) is going to be far more sturdy than a laser rifle, and has one key advantage: It's n <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 08:19:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| As for handheld weaponry, I don't think we'll be seeing laser rifles any time soon. The apparatus is much too delicate to be encased in something that small and that vulnerable. However, there is a different avenue that we coul dtake, and that's plasma. A theoretical plasma rifle (jfc hello halo) is going to be far more sturdy than a laser rifle, and has one key advantage: It's n <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 08:19:43] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ot necessarily lethal. One could theoretically be merely rendered unconscious or immobile by such a weapon, leading to one's capture as opposed to one's untimely demise. A non-lethal war would be a great improvement, although even that has the potential to be abused. I doubt the Americans will go this route, though.
[2024-01-23 08:19:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ot necessarily lethal. One could theoretically be merely rendered unconscious or immobile by such a weapon, leading to one's capture as opposed to one's untimely demise. A non-lethal war would be a great improvement, although even that has the potential to be abused. I doubt the Americans will go this route, though.
[2024-01-23 08:19:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCHH24bGZh4
[2024-01-23 08:19:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also relevant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCHH24bGZh4
[2024-01-23 08:20:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| shoutout to NonCredibleDefense
[2024-01-23 08:20:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| shoutout to NonCredibleDefense
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[2024-01-23 13:43:53] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @amazing_stories That is exactly what happened to me a few weeks ago. My elbow dislocated and they had to put it back in hospital. I can type now but i cant lift much or do sports and wont be able to for months according to the physio. Consultant said it will be a year before my arm is back to normal.
[2024-01-23 13:43:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @amazing_stories That is exactly what happened to me a few weeks ago. My elbow dislocated and they had to put it back in hospital. I can type now but i cant lift much or do sports and wont be able to for months according to the physio. Consultant said it will be a year before my arm is back to normal.
[2024-01-23 14:02:09] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @northernscrub The next world war will be computer-based...using AI, Machine learning and the internet. I don't think lasers will even come in to it.
[2024-01-23 14:02:09] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @northernscrub The next world war will be computer-based...using AI, Machine learning and the internet. I don't think lasers will even come in to it.
[2024-01-23 14:34:08] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Oh wow your injury is way worse. I've narrowed down my problem to swelling in my elbow. Since I'm slowly gaining mobility and grip strength it doesn't make sense there would be a fracture, and the pain seems to run the entire length of my arm centered around the spot just above my elbow on the back. It's is not nearly as swollen and bruised as I expected but man when I woke up th <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 14:34:08] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Oh wow your injury is way worse. I've narrowed down my problem to swelling in my elbow. Since I'm slowly gaining mobility and grip strength it doesn't make sense there would be a fracture, and the pain seems to run the entire length of my arm centered around the spot just above my elbow on the back. It's is not nearly as swollen and bruised as I expected but man when I woke up th <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 14:34:09] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| is morning it hurt so much I thought for sure my arm was broken. Ibuprofen seems to be helping. This post the first thing I've been able to type since last night so I'm guessing a few more days of this. Drove my car today and couldn't really shift, had to use a combination of finger strength and my torso, but mostly had to use my left hand (manual transmission). Can't lift anythi <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 14:34:09] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| is morning it hurt so much I thought for sure my arm was broken. Ibuprofen seems to be helping. This post the first thing I've been able to type since last night so I'm guessing a few more days of this. Drove my car today and couldn't really shift, had to use a combination of finger strength and my torso, but mostly had to use my left hand (manual transmission). Can't lift anythi <clipped message>
[2024-01-23 14:34:10] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ng over a kilo.
[2024-01-23 14:34:10] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ng over a kilo.
[2024-01-23 14:34:38] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I doubt it, tbh. We already have conventions in place to prevent automated decision making in warfare. It's the only sensible thing to do. Maybe in a few hundred years, sure, but not in our lifetime
[2024-01-23 14:34:38] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I doubt it, tbh. We already have conventions in place to prevent automated decision making in warfare. It's the only sensible thing to do. Maybe in a few hundred years, sure, but not in our lifetime
[2024-01-23 14:43:16] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| at least you drive a manual ๐
[2024-01-23 14:43:16] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| at least you drive a manual ๐
[2024-01-23 14:45:33] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ha. My first car was manual because I was dirt poor and that's all I could afford so I had to learn, and somehow I keep ending up with manual cars even though I have no preference... I just buy what's available at the time.
[2024-01-23 14:45:34] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| ha. My first car was manual because I was dirt poor and that's all I could afford so I had to learn, and somehow I keep ending up with manual cars even though I have no preference... I just buy what's available at the time.
[2024-01-23 14:58:06] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Here in the UK, most people drive manuals. The only people with automatics are those that live in big cities and don't drive much. I don't know why that is.
[2024-01-23 14:58:07] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Here in the UK, most people drive manuals. The only people with automatics are those that live in big cities and don't drive much. I don't know why that is.
[2024-01-23 15:05:34] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @northernscrub I wouldn't be so sure about that. The rate of change in technology is insane. The head of AI and machine learning at Google resigned recently for the reasons I mention. I call it "Terminator Syndrome". Expect it in our lifetime.
[2024-01-23 15:05:34] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| @northernscrub I wouldn't be so sure about that. The rate of change in technology is insane. The head of AI and machine learning at Google resigned recently for the reasons I mention. I call it "Terminator Syndrome". Expect it in our lifetime.
[2024-01-23 15:08:08] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I agree that most people are drastically underestimating the power of AI tools. I used to be indifferent to AI but over the last year I've become an AI alarmist, trying to explain to people how crazy things can get potentially over the next decade.
[2024-01-23 15:08:08] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I agree that most people are drastically underestimating the power of AI tools. I used to be indifferent to AI but over the last year I've become an AI alarmist, trying to explain to people how crazy things can get potentially over the next decade.
[2024-01-23 15:10:58] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Oh yeah for sure. We already have AI bots playing this game on the servers. With the growth of internet of things and smart technology, we are heading for trouble. There are hackers out there that can hack pretty much anything.
[2024-01-23 15:10:58] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Oh yeah for sure. We already have AI bots playing this game on the servers. With the growth of internet of things and smart technology, we are heading for trouble. There are hackers out there that can hack pretty much anything.
[2024-01-23 15:13:22] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Did you see the video of the guys that hacked a jeep?
[2024-01-23 15:13:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Did you see the video of the guys that hacked a jeep?
[2024-01-23 15:13:35] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| They had full control over it from just a laptop
[2024-01-23 15:13:35] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| They had full control over it from just a laptop
[2024-01-23 15:13:49] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| No., wow.
[2024-01-23 15:13:49] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| No., wow.
[2024-01-23 15:13:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| that was a decade ago
[2024-01-23 15:13:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| that was a decade ago
[2024-01-23 15:14:21] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| and pretty much every vehicle post 2010 is vulnerable
[2024-01-23 15:14:21] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| and pretty much every vehicle post 2010 is vulnerable
[2024-01-23 15:14:30] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| https://www.wired.com/video/watch/hackers-wireless-jeep-attack-stranded-me-on-a-highway
[2024-01-23 15:14:30] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| https://www.wired.com/video/watch/hackers-wireless-jeep-attack-stranded-me-on-a-highway
[2024-01-23 15:14:31] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| a modern vehicle is a rolling IP address
[2024-01-23 15:14:32] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| a modern vehicle is a rolling IP address
[2024-01-23 15:15:36] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I have many things to say about AI, but really the most important one I keep telling people is that every technology is potentially a weapon, and right now AI tools are good enough to be weapons we don't have countermeasures for, or at least they are developed faster than we can combat them.
[2024-01-23 15:15:37] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I have many things to say about AI, but really the most important one I keep telling people is that every technology is potentially a weapon, and right now AI tools are good enough to be weapons we don't have countermeasures for, or at least they are developed faster than we can combat them.
[2024-01-23 15:15:39] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Security is relative, not absolute in computing.
[2024-01-23 15:15:39] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Security is relative, not absolute in computing.
[2024-01-23 15:16:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| not even airgapping is a solution anymore, it's conceivable that merely listening to a device as it emits electrical noise can result in a live feed of its threads
[2024-01-23 15:16:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| not even airgapping is a solution anymore, it's conceivable that merely listening to a device as it emits electrical noise can result in a live feed of its threads
[2024-01-23 15:18:43] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i went to my local college on an open day about a year ago or less and they said that they could hack a modern car with just a laptop. They weren't even proper hackers, just lecturers in mechanics and some other stuff.
[2024-01-23 15:18:43] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i went to my local college on an open day about a year ago or less and they said that they could hack a modern car with just a laptop. They weren't even proper hackers, just lecturers in mechanics and some other stuff.
[2024-01-23 15:19:03] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| so yeah, it concerns the fuck out of me.
[2024-01-23 15:19:03] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| so yeah, it concerns the fuck out of me.
[2024-01-23 15:19:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| laptop? lol, you can do it from aphone
[2024-01-23 15:19:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| laptop? lol, you can do it from aphone
[2024-01-23 15:19:19] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| busybox is far more powerful than it used to be
[2024-01-23 15:19:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| busybox is far more powerful than it used to be
[2024-01-23 15:20:23] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ive heard of it but not used it. its an embedded linux type tool right?
[2024-01-23 15:20:23] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ive heard of it but not used it. its an embedded linux type tool right?
[2024-01-23 15:20:41] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| it's a kernel all of its own
[2024-01-23 15:20:41] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| it's a kernel all of its own
[2024-01-23 15:20:45] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ah ok
[2024-01-23 15:20:45] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ah ok
[2024-01-23 15:20:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| based on unix
[2024-01-23 15:20:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| based on unix
[2024-01-23 15:20:54] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| android runs on it
[2024-01-23 15:20:55] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| android runs on it
[2024-01-23 15:20:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ios runs on a variant thereof
[2024-01-23 15:21:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ios runs on a variant thereof
[2024-01-23 15:21:17] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| all androids run on it or?
[2024-01-23 15:21:18] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| all androids run on it or?
[2024-01-23 15:21:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, yes, it's what android is built on top of
[2024-01-23 15:21:34] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, yes, it's what android is built on top of
[2024-01-23 15:21:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh ok i knew android was linuxish but didnt know it ran on top of busybox
[2024-01-23 15:21:54] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh ok i knew android was linuxish but didnt know it ran on top of busybox
[2024-01-23 15:22:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, technically is *is* a form of linux
[2024-01-23 15:22:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| well, technically is *is* a form of linux
[2024-01-23 15:22:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| it can even support bash
[2024-01-23 15:22:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| it can even support bash
[2024-01-23 15:23:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a few android terminals that even run pacman
[2024-01-23 15:23:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| there's a few android terminals that even run pacman
[2024-01-23 15:23:24] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| the package manager or the game ๐
[2024-01-23 15:23:24] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| the package manager or the game ๐
[2024-01-23 15:23:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| heh
[2024-01-23 15:23:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| heh
[2024-01-23 15:23:36] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the former
[2024-01-23 15:23:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the former
[2024-01-23 15:23:41] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah i was j/k
[2024-01-23 15:23:41] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah i was j/k
[2024-01-23 15:24:21] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| also did you guys hear about the facebook AI engine?
[2024-01-23 15:24:21] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| also did you guys hear about the facebook AI engine?
[2024-01-23 15:25:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| don't much care for facebook, but I'm hardly surprised. Zuck is a massive bellend
[2024-01-23 15:25:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| don't much care for facebook, but I'm hardly surprised. Zuck is a massive bellend
[2024-01-23 15:26:18] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| facebook set up two instances of their AI engine to talk to one another. They ended up creating their own language to be more efficient and private and facebook had to stop the experiment. I agree yes that Zuck is a prick.
[2024-01-23 15:26:19] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| facebook set up two instances of their AI engine to talk to one another. They ended up creating their own language to be more efficient and private and facebook had to stop the experiment. I agree yes that Zuck is a prick.
[2024-01-23 15:26:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh that was zuck's lot? lol
[2024-01-23 15:26:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh that was zuck's lot? lol
[2024-01-23 15:27:22] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah
[2024-01-23 15:27:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah
[2024-01-23 15:27:56] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| if a cunt like that has that sort of AI power...imagine what other have...
[2024-01-23 15:27:56] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| if a cunt like that has that sort of AI power...imagine what other have...
[2024-01-23 15:34:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| not really, busybox is a collection of tools typically used in limited environments
[2024-01-23 15:34:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| not really, busybox is a collection of tools typically used in limited environments
[2024-01-23 15:36:10] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| right ok, ive never used it myself but yeah i was surprised to hear its a kernel too
[2024-01-23 15:36:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| right ok, ive never used it myself but yeah i was surprised to hear its a kernel too
[2024-01-23 15:36:48] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i thought android was just running a modified and extended linux kernel.
[2024-01-23 15:36:48] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i thought android was just running a modified and extended linux kernel.
[2024-01-23 15:42:02] <Lucifer_arma> Cars have been vulnerable for awhile. I read an article a number of years ago describing exactly what the vulnerabilities were then, and the reason the article existed was because the researchers had been trying for a couple of years to get manufacturers to plug the security holes
[2024-01-23 15:42:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Cars have been vulnerable for awhile. I read an article a number of years ago describing exactly what the vulnerabilities were then, and the reason the article existed was because the researchers had been trying for a couple of years to get manufacturers to plug the security holes
[2024-01-23 15:42:24] <Lucifer_arma> and when they refused, over a long period of time, the researchers published to put more pressure on the manufacturers
[2024-01-23 15:42:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and when they refused, over a long period of time, the researchers published to put more pressure on the manufacturers
[2024-01-23 15:43:41] <Lucifer_arma> I'm absolutely certain that AI fears are overblown, or reflect a misunderstanding of how AI works. :)
[2024-01-23 15:43:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm absolutely certain that AI fears are overblown, or reflect a misunderstanding of how AI works. :)
[2024-01-23 15:44:17] <Lucifer_arma> Neural networks are built on a basic mathematical model of how neurons work in a brain, but it's both a really basic model, and a pretty flawed model
[2024-01-23 15:44:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Neural networks are built on a basic mathematical model of how neurons work in a brain, but it's both a really basic model, and a pretty flawed model
[2024-01-23 15:45:19] <Lucifer_arma> but, even if it was a pretty solid and accurate model, you'd still need to put so many nodes in a model that there doesn't exist a computer yet that can run this hypothetical model in realtime
[2024-01-23 15:45:19] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but, even if it was a pretty solid and accurate model, you'd still need to put so many nodes in a model that there doesn't exist a computer yet that can run this hypothetical model in realtime
[2024-01-23 15:45:43] <Lucifer_arma> and I'm pretty sure transistor-based CPUs are just never going to be able to because of their physical limitations
[2024-01-23 15:45:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and I'm pretty sure transistor-based CPUs are just never going to be able to because of their physical limitations
[2024-01-23 15:46:31] <Lucifer_arma> so why not build a big ass cluster? Latency. There's so much latency in a cluster that an actual emergent intelligence would just be too slow
[2024-01-23 15:46:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so why not build a big ass cluster? Latency. There's so much latency in a cluster that an actual emergent intelligence would just be too slow
[2024-01-23 15:47:43] <Lucifer_arma> the other things we get wrong about AI is that if we do ever manage to make the shift from artificial intelligence to real intelligence, we always imagine that it'll be some super-intelligent computer that immediately has no need for humans
[2024-01-23 15:47:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the other things we get wrong about AI is that if we do ever manage to make the shift from artificial intelligence to real intelligence, we always imagine that it'll be some super-intelligent computer that immediately has no need for humans
[2024-01-23 15:48:31] <Lucifer_arma> but realistically, since AI development is incremental, the first intelligences to be built are going to be much "lower" on the evolutionary tree. Think bees or ants, not hyper-intelligent T1000s
[2024-01-23 15:48:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but realistically, since AI development is incremental, the first intelligences to be built are going to be much "lower" on the evolutionary tree. Think bees or ants, not hyper-intelligent T1000s
[2024-01-23 15:52:05] <Lucifer_arma> it's a fun science fiction trope that if you put enough logical components together, sooner or later a malicious intelligence is an inevitable development, but that's just a trope
[2024-01-23 15:52:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's a fun science fiction trope that if you put enough logical components together, sooner or later a malicious intelligence is an inevitable development, but that's just a trope
[2024-01-23 15:53:07] <Lucifer_arma> if it helps, there have been some recent studies that show that we take TV too seriously. While it's another example of science learning something we already knew, it's really helpful to remember that hollywood physics isn't real physics
[2024-01-23 15:53:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if it helps, there have been some recent studies that show that we take TV too seriously. While it's another example of science learning something we already knew, it's really helpful to remember that hollywood physics isn't real physics
[2024-01-23 15:54:08] <Lucifer_arma> so I see fears of AI being along the same psychological lines as the 9/11 inside jobbers who think it's physically impossible for a plane to bring down a skyscraper because their best understanding of physics comes from movies
[2024-01-23 15:54:08] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so I see fears of AI being along the same psychological lines as the 9/11 inside jobbers who think it's physically impossible for a plane to bring down a skyscraper because their best understanding of physics comes from movies
[2024-01-23 15:55:45] <Lucifer_arma> of course, unlike the 9/11 jobbers, AI research is a much more theoretical area, and my dabbling in AI doesn't make me anything near an expert on the subject
[2024-01-23 15:55:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| of course, unlike the 9/11 jobbers, AI research is a much more theoretical area, and my dabbling in AI doesn't make me anything near an expert on the subject
[2024-01-23 15:56:54] <Lucifer_arma> I'm saying I could be wrong. I don't think I am, but I still could be. :) I *do* think that AI fears represent fundamental insecurities in how humans behave as a species.
[2024-01-23 15:56:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm saying I could be wrong. I don't think I am, but I still could be. :) I *do* think that AI fears represent fundamental insecurities in how humans behave as a species.
[2024-01-23 15:58:00] <Lucifer_arma> Take Asimov's laws of robotics. We can all probably agree that they are a good idea to build into AI at some point. But then we also know that some humans out there somewhere will build an AI without those laws of robotics because they need to do something those laws would stop
[2024-01-23 15:58:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Take Asimov's laws of robotics. We can all probably agree that they are a good idea to build into AI at some point. But then we also know that some humans out there somewhere will build an AI without those laws of robotics because they need to do something those laws would stop
[2024-01-23 15:58:36] <Lucifer_arma> we also have serious issues about whether or not we're even capable of building in to an AI any such laws of robotics.
[2024-01-23 15:58:37] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we also have serious issues about whether or not we're even capable of building in to an AI any such laws of robotics.
[2024-01-23 15:58:55] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| You're entitled to your opinion of course but I disagree. Obviously not all AI is highly intelligent, in fact, I'm sure most is not. However, I believe that powerful enough AI, with the ability to *learn*, in the wrong hands, will be very dangerous indeed. I also believe that we are in an AI race, similar to an arms race, but we don't hear about it because governments etc want to keep it that way.
[2024-01-23 15:58:55] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| You're entitled to your opinion of course but I disagree. Obviously not all AI is highly intelligent, in fact, I'm sure most is not. However, I believe that powerful enough AI, with the ability to *learn*, in the wrong hands, will be very dangerous indeed. I also believe that we are in an AI race, similar to an arms race, but we don't hear about it because governments etc want to keep it that way.
[2024-01-23 15:59:01] <Lucifer_arma> There's also insecurity revolving around whether or not we'd even recognize if we built an actual intelligence. How would we recognize it?
[2024-01-23 15:59:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| There's also insecurity revolving around whether or not we'd even recognize if we built an actual intelligence. How would we recognize it?
[2024-01-23 16:00:28] <Lucifer_arma> but what is learning, exactly? Deep learning on computers is about being able to make inferences. It's basically a very general mathematical algorithm that enables a computer to make illogical inferences
[2024-01-23 16:00:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but what is learning, exactly? Deep learning on computers is about being able to make inferences. It's basically a very general mathematical algorithm that enables a computer to make illogical inferences
[2024-01-23 16:01:06] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Also, the technology we see in every day life is normally about 10 years behind what governments etc have. So, the most powerful governments in the world must have shit hot computers (quantum/biological/w/e) by now.
[2024-01-23 16:01:06] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Also, the technology we see in every day life is normally about 10 years behind what governments etc have. So, the most powerful governments in the world must have shit hot computers (quantum/biological/w/e) by now.
[2024-01-23 16:01:15] <Lucifer_arma> I'm curious how big chatGPT is. I haven't seen any specs on it. How many layers? How many nodes? etc.
[2024-01-23 16:01:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm curious how big chatGPT is. I haven't seen any specs on it. How many layers? How many nodes? etc.
[2024-01-23 16:01:37] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| lol good point actually, i wonder how big it is myself
[2024-01-23 16:01:38] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| lol good point actually, i wonder how big it is myself
[2024-01-23 16:02:50] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| As for recognising if we built actual intelligence, we'll recognise it when it kicks our asses.
[2024-01-23 16:02:50] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| As for recognising if we built actual intelligence, we'll recognise it when it kicks our asses.
[2024-01-23 16:02:56] <Lucifer_arma> the turing test is about insecurity, not really about a computer that's good enough to pass itself off as a human. The basic question being asked is "Would we be able to tell the difference between an artificial intelligence that can fool us, or a real intelligence that can think?"
[2024-01-23 16:02:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the turing test is about insecurity, not really about a computer that's good enough to pass itself off as a human. The basic question being asked is "Would we be able to tell the difference between an artificial intelligence that can fool us, or a real intelligence that can think?"
[2024-01-23 16:05:10] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| as you rightly say, i think silicon, binary computers, have limitations. However, i will repeat that we don't know what level of technology gorvernents have. I suspect they are either using or are getting close to quantum or biological computers etc.
[2024-01-23 16:05:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| as you rightly say, i think silicon, binary computers, have limitations. However, i will repeat that we don't know what level of technology gorvernents have. I suspect they are either using or are getting close to quantum or biological computers etc.
[2024-01-23 16:05:29] <Lucifer_arma> I'd like to see someone figure out how many transistors it would take to simulate an actual biological neuron. There's so much information in a signal as its passing through a neuron that even though the latency seems slow, it's really high speed
[2024-01-23 16:05:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'd like to see someone figure out how many transistors it would take to simulate an actual biological neuron. There's so much information in a signal as its passing through a neuron that even though the latency seems slow, it's really high speed
[2024-01-23 16:06:46] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah for sure. i watched a program a while ago on biological computing. its getting closer to creating animals and, im sure, one day, humans
[2024-01-23 16:06:47] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah for sure. i watched a program a while ago on biological computing. its getting closer to creating animals and, im sure, one day, humans
[2024-01-23 16:07:21] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| IMO its not *if*, it's *when*
[2024-01-23 16:07:21] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| IMO its not *if*, it's *when*
[2024-01-23 16:10:35] <Lucifer_arma> but it also takes a lot more than just intelligence for an AI to turn against us and start working on world domination
[2024-01-23 16:10:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but it also takes a lot more than just intelligence for an AI to turn against us and start working on world domination
[2024-01-23 16:11:31] <Lucifer_arma> I think we're missing one of the fundamental parts of the Terminator premise. When SkyNet reached a point where it had access to everything it needed to reproduce and maintain itself, *that* is when it turned against humans
[2024-01-23 16:11:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think we're missing one of the fundamental parts of the Terminator premise. When SkyNet reached a point where it had access to everything it needed to reproduce and maintain itself, *that* is when it turned against humans
[2024-01-23 16:12:35] <Lucifer_arma> but it still ignores a really important point, which is that all the different components would have to need each other to be able to take over the world
[2024-01-23 16:12:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but it still ignores a really important point, which is that all the different components would have to need each other to be able to take over the world
[2024-01-23 16:13:06] <Lucifer_arma> if the intelligence that manages the stock market can exist just fine without building autonomous vehicles, then the autonomous vehicles aren't necessarily going to be allies with it
[2024-01-23 16:13:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if the intelligence that manages the stock market can exist just fine without building autonomous vehicles, then the autonomous vehicles aren't necessarily going to be allies with it
[2024-01-23 16:14:03] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Possibly. Although if Facebook's AI can make changes to itself for efficiency and privacy reasons, then imagine what a government's AI could do. Especially if it is initially programmed in favour of the Government that created it but then it *learns* to ignore it. Or if there were a bug in its programming...could be an issue you never know...
[2024-01-23 16:14:04] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| Possibly. Although if Facebook's AI can make changes to itself for efficiency and privacy reasons, then imagine what a government's AI could do. Especially if it is initially programmed in favour of the Government that created it but then it *learns* to ignore it. Or if there were a bug in its programming...could be an issue you never know...
[2024-01-23 16:14:04] <Lucifer_arma> so there would have to be a unified intelligence or alliance of computerized beings that manage everything from the resource extraction, the entire supply chain, and the manufacturing
[2024-01-23 16:14:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so there would have to be a unified intelligence or alliance of computerized beings that manage everything from the resource extraction, the entire supply chain, and the manufacturing
[2024-01-23 16:15:38] <Lucifer_arma> I'm not sure the concept of bugs applies here. A bug is when a deterministic algorithm fails. AIs are powered by deterministic algorithms at the model level, but what an AI does is not deterministic
[2024-01-23 16:15:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm not sure the concept of bugs applies here. A bug is when a deterministic algorithm fails. AIs are powered by deterministic algorithms at the model level, but what an AI does is not deterministic
[2024-01-23 16:17:22] <Lucifer_arma> I think the biggest problem that AIs give us is that even in their state of artificiality, they're still capable of rendering large swathes of the workforce obsolete
[2024-01-23 16:17:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think the biggest problem that AIs give us is that even in their state of artificiality, they're still capable of rendering large swathes of the workforce obsolete
[2024-01-23 16:17:23] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| maybe or maybe not. if looking at biological computing, i believe that animals of some sort could be created and have their "programming" altered. I guess it comes down to our scientific/religious beliefs. it fundamentally depends on what animals with a CNS really are. IMO, animals are just things with a CNS and their genetics is their programming.
[2024-01-23 16:17:23] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| maybe or maybe not. if looking at biological computing, i believe that animals of some sort could be created and have their "programming" altered. I guess it comes down to our scientific/religious beliefs. it fundamentally depends on what animals with a CNS really are. IMO, animals are just things with a CNS and their genetics is their programming.
[2024-01-23 16:18:05] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| "bug" depends on what definition you follow
[2024-01-23 16:18:05] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| "bug" depends on what definition you follow
[2024-01-23 16:18:28] <Lucifer_arma> and since we have this culture that basically says that anybody who isn't working is unnecessary, we're about to have a lot of people who are unnecessary
[2024-01-23 16:18:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and since we have this culture that basically says that anybody who isn't working is unnecessary, we're about to have a lot of people who are unnecessary
[2024-01-23 16:18:40] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yes i agree
[2024-01-23 16:18:41] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yes i agree
[2024-01-23 16:18:58] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| amazon are supposed to be replacing humans with drones arent they?
[2024-01-23 16:18:58] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| amazon are supposed to be replacing humans with drones arent they?
[2024-01-23 16:19:02] <Lucifer_arma> we have to shift to a way of thinking where people don't have to work anymore, and they don't have to be rich to deserve to live decent lives even without working
[2024-01-23 16:19:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| we have to shift to a way of thinking where people don't have to work anymore, and they don't have to be rich to deserve to live decent lives even without working
[2024-01-23 16:19:25] <Lucifer_arma> (we're already okay with having a class of ultra-rich people who don't do any work or contribute meaningfully to society)
[2024-01-23 16:19:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (we're already okay with having a class of ultra-rich people who don't do any work or contribute meaningfully to society)
[2024-01-23 16:19:53] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| if people could all get on that would be fine but people often dont get on
[2024-01-23 16:19:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| if people could all get on that would be fine but people often dont get on
[2024-01-23 16:20:45] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| technology should be there to improve lives but instead, in our capitalist world, it's there to make cash at the expense of the many
[2024-01-23 16:20:45] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| technology should be there to improve lives but instead, in our capitalist world, it's there to make cash at the expense of the many
[2024-01-23 16:21:57] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i dont see that changing
[2024-01-23 16:21:57] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i dont see that changing
[2024-01-23 16:22:32] <Lucifer_arma> well, it's a bit more complicated than that. Technology does improve lives all across the board. We're in more of a grey area
[2024-01-23 16:22:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, it's a bit more complicated than that. Technology does improve lives all across the board. We're in more of a grey area
[2024-01-23 16:22:45] <Lucifer_arma> but capitalism is one of the biggest threats to our existence right now
[2024-01-23 16:22:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but capitalism is one of the biggest threats to our existence right now
[2024-01-23 16:22:55] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| it does in many ways
[2024-01-23 16:22:56] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| it does in many ways
[2024-01-23 16:23:20] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| here where i live, we have good tech but still many people are homeless
[2024-01-23 16:23:20] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| here where i live, we have good tech but still many people are homeless
[2024-01-23 16:23:46] <Lucifer_arma> the homeless population in the western world is getting bigger. If I don't find some money soon, I may be joining them. :/
[2024-01-23 16:23:46] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the homeless population in the western world is getting bigger. If I don't find some money soon, I may be joining them. :/
[2024-01-23 16:24:11] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| one of our politicians said "homelessness is a lifestyle choice and charities that help homeless people should be punished". That speaks for itself i think
[2024-01-23 16:24:11] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| one of our politicians said "homelessness is a lifestyle choice and charities that help homeless people should be punished". That speaks for itself i think
[2024-01-23 16:24:30] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| sorry to hear that lucifer
[2024-01-23 16:24:30] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| sorry to hear that lucifer
[2024-01-23 16:25:46] <Lucifer_arma> I'm thinking about resurrecting the gofundme I made a long time ago, but being an introvert, I just don't know that many people. :/
[2024-01-23 16:25:47] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm thinking about resurrecting the gofundme I made a long time ago, but being an introvert, I just don't know that many people. :/
[2024-01-23 16:26:49] <Lucifer_arma> but I'm basically in the same trap that most people are in in the western world, particularly in the US. I work full-time in a so-called professional job, but it doesn't pay enough to cover cost of living
[2024-01-23 16:26:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I'm basically in the same trap that most people are in in the western world, particularly in the US. I work full-time in a so-called professional job, but it doesn't pay enough to cover cost of living
[2024-01-23 16:27:01] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| You're an introvert? that surprises me, you seem outgoing...however online its always hard to tell how people really are
[2024-01-23 16:27:01] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| You're an introvert? that surprises me, you seem outgoing...however online its always hard to tell how people really are
[2024-01-23 16:27:14] <Lucifer_arma> the company I work for trades on nasdaq for around $900+
[2024-01-23 16:27:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the company I work for trades on nasdaq for around $900+
[2024-01-23 16:27:24] <Lucifer_arma> I'm an outgoing introvert. :)
[2024-01-23 16:27:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm an outgoing introvert. :)
[2024-01-23 16:27:29] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah no offence but your country is even more fucked than mine...and mine is fucked!
[2024-01-23 16:27:29] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah no offence but your country is even more fucked than mine...and mine is fucked!
[2024-01-23 16:27:53] <Lucifer_arma> so the company is driven by the capitalist class, the shareholders, and treats people as a cost to be controlled and minimized
[2024-01-23 16:27:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so the company is driven by the capitalist class, the shareholders, and treats people as a cost to be controlled and minimized
[2024-01-23 16:28:08] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| many do nowadasy
[2024-01-23 16:28:08] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| many do nowadasy
[2024-01-23 16:28:11] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| same here
[2024-01-23 16:28:11] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| same here
[2024-01-23 16:28:17] <Lucifer_arma> so even though they have more than enough money to bump everybody up by $5/hr or so, they won't because of how it screws with their bottom line
[2024-01-23 16:28:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so even though they have more than enough money to bump everybody up by $5/hr or so, they won't because of how it screws with their bottom line
[2024-01-23 16:28:35] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah its the same here really
[2024-01-23 16:28:35] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah its the same here really
[2024-01-23 16:29:20] <Lucifer_arma> I was told by the capitalist class that the free market is supposed to include a competitive wage market. Wages are supposed to trend up while prices trend down, due to competition for talent
[2024-01-23 16:29:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I was told by the capitalist class that the free market is supposed to include a competitive wage market. Wages are supposed to trend up while prices trend down, due to competition for talent
[2024-01-23 16:29:22] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| the only way is to be self-employed or to own a company
[2024-01-23 16:29:23] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| the only way is to be self-employed or to own a company
[2024-01-23 16:30:19] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, but Landru is a ways out from being able to provide me with income, and I only just started the youtube channel. If the youtube channel is going to get me where I need to be, it's too late for now. Rent is due next week.
[2024-01-23 16:30:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, but Landru is a ways out from being able to provide me with income, and I only just started the youtube channel. If the youtube channel is going to get me where I need to be, it's too late for now. Rent is due next week.
[2024-01-23 16:30:28] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| have you ever considered going self-employed?
[2024-01-23 16:30:29] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| have you ever considered going self-employed?
[2024-01-23 16:30:40] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh fuck
[2024-01-23 16:30:40] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh fuck
[2024-01-23 16:30:43] <Lucifer_arma> ironically, when I first got involved with armagetron, I was self-employed
[2024-01-23 16:30:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ironically, when I first got involved with armagetron, I was self-employed
[2024-01-23 16:31:18] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| did life hit hard or something?
[2024-01-23 16:31:18] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| did life hit hard or something?
[2024-01-23 16:31:20] <Lucifer_arma> see, here's a fun issue. Let's say that 10k people watch my one youtube video and all buy my book before the end of the month
[2024-01-23 16:31:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| see, here's a fun issue. Let's say that 10k people watch my one youtube video and all buy my book before the end of the month
[2024-01-23 16:31:31] <Lucifer_arma> I won't get those royalties until March
[2024-01-23 16:31:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I won't get those royalties until March
[2024-01-23 16:31:58] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ok
[2024-01-23 16:31:58] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ok
[2024-01-23 16:32:05] <Lucifer_arma> yeah, I got divorced, and the 2008 recession hit. I was basically homeless for a couple of years, but I had people who could help
[2024-01-23 16:32:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| yeah, I got divorced, and the 2008 recession hit. I was basically homeless for a couple of years, but I had people who could help
[2024-01-23 16:32:24] <Lucifer_arma> then I got married again and was ok, but about two years ago I moved out and got divorced again
[2024-01-23 16:32:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| then I got married again and was ok, but about two years ago I moved out and got divorced again
[2024-01-23 16:32:35] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh
[2024-01-23 16:32:38] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| oh
[2024-01-23 16:32:48] <Lucifer_arma> My son and I moved into this place, but he moved out about a year ago. Then I had a roommate.
[2024-01-23 16:32:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| My son and I moved into this place, but he moved out about a year ago. Then I had a roommate.
[2024-01-23 16:33:07] <Lucifer_arma> I've been doing well, but in the meantime, I also picked up addiction, which is a chronic condition :/
[2024-01-23 16:33:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've been doing well, but in the meantime, I also picked up addiction, which is a chronic condition :/
[2024-01-23 16:33:23] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| addiction is hell, ive seen it dont worry
[2024-01-23 16:33:23] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| addiction is hell, ive seen it dont worry
[2024-01-23 16:33:32] <Lucifer_arma> My roommate moved out in December, and I tightened up my spending to see if I can support myself without a roommate
[2024-01-23 16:33:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| My roommate moved out in December, and I tightened up my spending to see if I can support myself without a roommate
[2024-01-23 16:33:55] <Lucifer_arma> as of right now, it looks like I have my answer. I need $500-$700 more than I have to make rent for next month.
[2024-01-23 16:33:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as of right now, it looks like I have my answer. I need $500-$700 more than I have to make rent for next month.
[2024-01-23 16:34:14] <Lucifer_arma> I've been looking for side jobs, because I'm in the automotive industry again, but I just haven't found any takers.
[2024-01-23 16:34:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I've been looking for side jobs, because I'm in the automotive industry again, but I just haven't found any takers.
[2024-01-23 16:34:30] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| its tough
[2024-01-23 16:34:31] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| its tough
[2024-01-23 16:35:30] <Lucifer_arma> the way patreon pays, if I understand correctly, if enough people join my patreon in the next week, I could make rent for next month
[2024-01-23 16:35:30] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| the way patreon pays, if I understand correctly, if enough people join my patreon in the next week, I could make rent for next month
[2024-01-23 16:36:04] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hang on, how much is your rent that's a lot
[2024-01-23 16:36:05] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| hang on, how much is your rent that's a lot
[2024-01-23 16:36:33] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i mean, my gf and i own this house now and our mortgage is cheap. rent would be double though
[2024-01-23 16:36:33] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i mean, my gf and i own this house now and our mortgage is cheap. rent would be double though
[2024-01-23 16:36:35] <Lucifer_arma> haha. My rent is $1200
[2024-01-23 16:36:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| haha. My rent is $1200
[2024-01-23 16:36:39] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| fuck
[2024-01-23 16:36:39] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| fuck
[2024-01-23 16:36:54] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| our mortage is 360
[2024-01-23 16:36:55] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| our mortage is 360
[2024-01-23 16:37:01] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| going up to 435 soon
[2024-01-23 16:37:01] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| going up to 435 soon
[2024-01-23 16:37:03] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| 3 bed house
[2024-01-23 16:37:04] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| 3 bed house
[2024-01-23 16:37:07] <Lucifer_arma> I barely make about $1k on a paycheck, on a good payday.
[2024-01-23 16:37:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I barely make about $1k on a paycheck, on a good payday.
[2024-01-23 16:37:13] <Lucifer_arma> You're in the UK, aren't you?
[2024-01-23 16:37:13] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| You're in the UK, aren't you?
[2024-01-23 16:37:13] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| thats shit
[2024-01-23 16:37:14] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| thats shit
[2024-01-23 16:37:15] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah
[2024-01-23 16:37:16] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah
[2024-01-23 16:37:40] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| we live in a less affluent area to keep costs down
[2024-01-23 16:37:40] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| we live in a less affluent area to keep costs down
[2024-01-23 16:37:54] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but of course then there are less prospects
[2024-01-23 16:37:55] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but of course then there are less prospects
[2024-01-23 16:37:56] <Lucifer_arma> I'm in one of the most expensive metro areas in the US. Austin, TX
[2024-01-23 16:37:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm in one of the most expensive metro areas in the US. Austin, TX
[2024-01-23 16:38:15] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i knew you were in texas,
[2024-01-23 16:38:15] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i knew you were in texas,
[2024-01-23 16:38:26] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| that sounds expensive
[2024-01-23 16:38:26] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| that sounds expensive
[2024-01-23 16:38:53] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| is moving or downsizing not an option? i know itss not ideal
[2024-01-23 16:38:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| is moving or downsizing not an option? i know itss not ideal
[2024-01-23 16:39:03] <Lucifer_arma> what's worse, I live in an income controlled apartment. I live in an apartment complex that exists to house poor people, and I can't afford it, haha
[2024-01-23 16:39:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| what's worse, I live in an income controlled apartment. I live in an apartment complex that exists to house poor people, and I can't afford it, haha
[2024-01-23 16:39:20] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| on man thats bad
[2024-01-23 16:39:21] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| on man thats bad
[2024-01-23 16:39:25] <Lucifer_arma> if I could move into a one bedroom in this same complex, I'd only save $100/month
[2024-01-23 16:39:26] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if I could move into a one bedroom in this same complex, I'd only save $100/month
[2024-01-23 16:39:31] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| whta
[2024-01-23 16:39:31] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| whta
[2024-01-23 16:39:48] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| thats crap
[2024-01-23 16:39:48] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| thats crap
[2024-01-23 16:40:33] <Lucifer_arma> for several decades, this was a unique Austin problem, but it's all over the country now. They're building massive new luxury apartments, but they're not building them fast enough to keep up with population growth
[2024-01-23 16:40:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| for several decades, this was a unique Austin problem, but it's all over the country now. They're building massive new luxury apartments, but they're not building them fast enough to keep up with population growth
[2024-01-23 16:40:46] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| same here.
[2024-01-23 16:40:46] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| same here.
[2024-01-23 16:40:53] <Lucifer_arma> and because they're building luxury apartments, rents are easily $2k-$5k/month in new developments
[2024-01-23 16:40:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and because they're building luxury apartments, rents are easily $2k-$5k/month in new developments
[2024-01-23 16:41:05] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ah bot has popped id better go play. ill read this after though
[2024-01-23 16:41:05] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ah bot has popped id better go play. ill read this after though
[2024-01-23 16:41:06] <Lucifer_arma> so supply and demand kick in
[2024-01-23 16:41:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so supply and demand kick in
[2024-01-23 16:41:22] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| its same here, they build on anything
[2024-01-23 16:41:22] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| its same here, they build on anything
[2024-01-23 16:42:43] <Lucifer_arma> if I could get 500 people to join my patreon for $1/month, I'd be fine
[2024-01-23 16:42:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if I could get 500 people to join my patreon for $1/month, I'd be fine
[2024-01-23 16:52:40] <Lucifer_arma> Make it 200 people to join at Rookie level, which is $3/month
[2024-01-23 16:52:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Make it 200 people to join at Rookie level, which is $3/month
[2024-01-23 16:59:22] <Lucifer_arma> https://patreon.com/davefancella?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=join_link <--- I need someone to click that link and verify that it's possible to join, even if you don't join.
[2024-01-23 16:59:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://patreon.com/davefancella?utm_medium=clipboard_copy&utm_source=copyLink&utm_campaign=creatorshare_creator&utm_content=join_link <--- I need someone to click that link and verify that it's possible to join, even if you don't join.
[2024-01-23 17:27:46] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Link appears to work correctly.
[2024-01-23 17:27:47] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| Link appears to work correctly.
[2024-01-23 17:30:25] <Lucifer_arma> thank you. Now, I guess, I need to make more content. It's a bit of a hail mary trying to get enough to pay rent next month, but I've exhausted every other avenue (still waiting to see if I get any roommate applications, though)
[2024-01-23 17:30:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| thank you. Now, I guess, I need to make more content. It's a bit of a hail mary trying to get enough to pay rent next month, but I've exhausted every other avenue (still waiting to see if I get any roommate applications, though)
[2024-01-23 17:31:24] <Lucifer_arma> I'm also going to try to sell my scooter, but with it not running, I don't think I can get enough for it. :/
[2024-01-23 17:31:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm also going to try to sell my scooter, but with it not running, I don't think I can get enough for it. :/
[2024-01-23 17:33:01] <Lucifer_arma> but I was able to put that first video together quickly enough that if I work real hard at it, and I can get better on camera, I can actually produce videos pretty quickly
[2024-01-23 17:33:01] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but I was able to put that first video together quickly enough that if I work real hard at it, and I can get better on camera, I can actually produce videos pretty quickly
[2024-01-23 17:39:53] <Lucifer_arma> before anybody asks, in order for a video to be monetized in the first place, you have to have three uploads in the past 90 days, 1000 or more watch hours, and like 500 subscribers
[2024-01-23 17:39:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| before anybody asks, in order for a video to be monetized in the first place, you have to have three uploads in the past 90 days, 1000 or more watch hours, and like 500 subscribers
[2024-01-23 17:40:21] <Lucifer_arma> so right now, just watching is helpful to reach that 1000 watch hour figure, but if there are no subscribers coming out of it, that's all it does
[2024-01-23 17:40:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so right now, just watching is helpful to reach that 1000 watch hour figure, but if there are no subscribers coming out of it, that's all it does
[2024-01-23 18:12:01] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| you can rebuild an entire scooter in afternoon
[2024-01-23 18:12:01] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| you can rebuild an entire scooter in afternoon
[2024-01-23 18:12:16] <Lucifer_arma> if you have parts to rebuild with....
[2024-01-23 18:12:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if you have parts to rebuild with....
[2024-01-23 18:12:38] <Lucifer_arma> assuming we're talking about the same kind of scooter, too. This is a 50cc honda metropolitan
[2024-01-23 18:12:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| assuming we're talking about the same kind of scooter, too. This is a 50cc honda metropolitan
[2024-01-23 18:14:31] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| ah 4-stroke.. i rent a shop with friends and have all parts i could ever need on deck. parts are pretty inexpensive and easy to source as long as you know what you need
[2024-01-23 18:14:31] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| ah 4-stroke.. i rent a shop with friends and have all parts i could ever need on deck. parts are pretty inexpensive and easy to source as long as you know what you need
[2024-01-23 18:20:57] <Lucifer_arma> where are you? Because when I priced a timing chain with guides, it was like $100 and would take a week or more to get here
[2024-01-23 18:20:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| where are you? Because when I priced a timing chain with guides, it was like $100 and would take a week or more to get here
[2024-01-23 18:21:34] <Lucifer_arma> it's not a gy6 scooter, despite the myth that honda designed the gy6 motor
[2024-01-23 18:21:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's not a gy6 scooter, despite the myth that honda designed the gy6 motor
[2024-01-23 18:25:28] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| a timing chain was $100? no shot, i'd keep looking
[2024-01-23 18:25:28] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| a timing chain was $100? no shot, i'd keep looking
[2024-01-23 18:25:48] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| im east coast usa but i pretty much exclusively work on vintage 2 stroke dirtbikes and mopeds
[2024-01-23 18:25:48] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| im east coast usa but i pretty much exclusively work on vintage 2 stroke dirtbikes and mopeds
[2024-01-23 18:32:10] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i used to ride a 80cc honda vision i think it was called
[2024-01-23 18:32:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i used to ride a 80cc honda vision i think it was called
[2024-01-23 18:32:17] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| this is a long time ago tho
[2024-01-23 18:32:18] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| this is a long time ago tho
[2024-01-23 18:32:38] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but yeah, parts here arent that pricey
[2024-01-23 18:32:38] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but yeah, parts here arent that pricey
[2024-01-23 18:41:24] <Lucifer_arma> heh, I live in the center of the most car-centric state in the world :)
[2024-01-23 18:41:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| heh, I live in the center of the most car-centric state in the world :)
[2024-01-23 18:41:59] <Lucifer_arma> I don't think I need a new timing chain, I think I just need to dissamble the rear of the motor and get the timing chain back on correctly
[2024-01-23 18:41:59] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I don't think I need a new timing chain, I think I just need to dissamble the rear of the motor and get the timing chain back on correctly
[2024-01-23 18:42:23] <Lucifer_arma> but there's so little room and my hands are so big, I pretty much have to drop the motor. Living in an apartment, in winter, that means doing it outside in the cold and wet
[2024-01-23 18:42:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but there's so little room and my hands are so big, I pretty much have to drop the motor. Living in an apartment, in winter, that means doing it outside in the cold and wet
[2024-01-23 18:43:48] <Lucifer_arma> what I did was, I replaced the head gasket, because there was coolant getting into the cylinder. But it's not like a car at all. I've done numerous timing belts (I was a professional mechanic). In a car, the crankshaft doesn't really turn when you're hanging a new belt. Nor does the camshaft(s).
[2024-01-23 18:43:48] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| what I did was, I replaced the head gasket, because there was coolant getting into the cylinder. But it's not like a car at all. I've done numerous timing belts (I was a professional mechanic). In a car, the crankshaft doesn't really turn when you're hanging a new belt. Nor does the camshaft(s).
[2024-01-23 18:44:02] <Lucifer_arma> in this little thing, though, if you look at it funny, the crankshaft turns ninety degrees
[2024-01-23 18:44:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| in this little thing, though, if you look at it funny, the crankshaft turns ninety degrees
[2024-01-23 18:44:44] <Lucifer_arma> I might not have to drop the motor if I can figure out how to keep the crankshaft from turning
[2024-01-23 18:44:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I might not have to drop the motor if I can figure out how to keep the crankshaft from turning
[2024-01-23 18:44:55] <Lucifer_arma> it's a non-interference motor, so I haven't damaged the valves by fiddling with it
[2024-01-23 18:44:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's a non-interference motor, so I haven't damaged the valves by fiddling with it
[2024-01-23 18:45:34] <Lucifer_arma> ok, I've outlined the replicator video. I need to run to the store and take some pics of the scooter (if there's still enough light), but I guess I'm shooting after that
[2024-01-23 18:45:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ok, I've outlined the replicator video. I need to run to the store and take some pics of the scooter (if there's still enough light), but I guess I'm shooting after that
[2024-01-23 18:46:16] <Lucifer_arma> I also need to be adding some sort of visuals to each new video so I can build up the skills to make the videos I really want to make
[2024-01-23 18:46:16] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I also need to be adding some sort of visuals to each new video so I can build up the skills to make the videos I really want to make
[2024-01-23 18:49:32] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| Use a piston stop
[2024-01-23 18:49:32] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| Use a piston stop
[2024-01-23 19:02:42] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| Metal dowel screws into spark plug threads and freezes the piston and consequently the crankshaft. Once the engines rotates and hits it will be fixed in place.
[2024-01-23 19:02:43] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| Metal dowel screws into spark plug threads and freezes the piston and consequently the crankshaft. Once the engines rotates and hits it will be fixed in place.
[2024-01-23 19:05:08] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| You could probably even just use a regular bolt from an hardware store as long as it’s the same threading as your spark plug and deep enough to hit the piston at top dead center
[2024-01-23 19:05:08] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| You could probably even just use a regular bolt from an hardware store as long as it’s the same threading as your spark plug and deep enough to hit the piston at top dead center
[2024-01-23 19:12:21] <Lucifer_arma> that'll only prevent the piston from moving in one direction. It can still easily move the other direction. I'll figure something out, don't worry. It's not an unsolvable problem, it's just the problem I have that I haven't really tried to solve yet
[2024-01-23 19:12:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| that'll only prevent the piston from moving in one direction. It can still easily move the other direction. I'll figure something out, don't worry. It's not an unsolvable problem, it's just the problem I have that I haven't really tried to solve yet
[2024-01-23 19:13:17] <Lucifer_arma> also, if the piston is at top dead center, nothing from the spark plug hole can prevent it from moving in any direction, since that's the highest position the piston will reach, and the spark plug hole is on top of that
[2024-01-23 19:13:17] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| also, if the piston is at top dead center, nothing from the spark plug hole can prevent it from moving in any direction, since that's the highest position the piston will reach, and the spark plug hole is on top of that
[2024-01-23 19:15:03] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| Ok then get one that goes to bottom dead center? Then it’s stuck
[2024-01-23 19:15:03] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| Ok then get one that goes to bottom dead center? Then it’s stuck
[2024-01-23 19:15:49] <Lucifer_arma> ah, the spark plug goes in from an oblique angle. Also, that makes the timing marks on the camshaft useless
[2024-01-23 19:15:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| ah, the spark plug goes in from an oblique angle. Also, that makes the timing marks on the camshaft useless
[2024-01-23 19:16:28] <Lucifer_arma> there's a way to do it with a wrench on the crankshaft, I just have to work it out. And since I have reason to believe there are issues with the timing chain guides, I need to drop the engine
[2024-01-23 19:16:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| there's a way to do it with a wrench on the crankshaft, I just have to work it out. And since I have reason to believe there are issues with the timing chain guides, I need to drop the engine
[2024-01-23 19:16:55] <Lucifer_arma> pulling the engine out changes everything in a Good Way, and there's only two bolts holding it in. Well, three, since there's one on the rear strut, too
[2024-01-23 19:16:56] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| pulling the engine out changes everything in a Good Way, and there's only two bolts holding it in. Well, three, since there's one on the rear strut, too
[2024-01-23 19:26:25] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| dropping the engine on a honda is usually the way anyway. all the honda hobbits ive worked on you need to drop the engine to even access the carburetor. infuriating design but worth it for the variated transmission
[2024-01-23 19:26:26] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| dropping the engine on a honda is usually the way anyway. all the honda hobbits ive worked on you need to drop the engine to even access the carburetor. infuriating design but worth it for the variated transmission
[2024-01-23 19:51:34] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:xobsile| @morbit
[2024-01-23 19:51:34] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:xobsile| @morbit
[2024-01-23 19:51:34] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:xobsile| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199516811079729162/image.png?ex=65c2d415&is=65b05f15&hm=79648cf0a73cf821d9e3c10154660c728f485c34f97a75a8ff71e6a97f63c3d0&
[2024-01-23 19:51:35] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:xobsile| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199516811079729162/image.png?ex=65c2d415&is=65b05f15&hm=79648cf0a73cf821d9e3c10154660c728f485c34f97a75a8ff71e6a97f63c3d0&
[2024-01-23 19:51:38] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:xobsile| https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629
[2024-01-23 19:51:38] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:xobsile| https://tenor.com/view/predator-arnold-schwarzenegger-hand-shake-arms-gif-3468629
[2024-01-23 21:38:28] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| lmao
[2024-01-23 21:38:28] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| lmao
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[2024-01-24 00:35:27] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:magi_cake| 2 days spent watching 1v1s is insane
[2024-01-24 00:35:27] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:magi_cake| 2 days spent watching 1v1s is insane
[2024-01-24 02:03:35] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav: Well, I'm finishing up the second video, and I put the filter on it like you said, and wow did I notice a difference when I put it on headphones. I'm going to watch it all the way through after it's done rendering and see what I think then
[2024-01-24 02:03:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav: Well, I'm finishing up the second video, and I put the filter on it like you said, and wow did I notice a difference when I put it on headphones. I'm going to watch it all the way through after it's done rendering and see what I think then
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[2024-01-24 19:59:14] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:anjo3060| most phones and laptop speakers wont play any freqs under 100 hz, but headphones will. always high pass filter. bonus if you notch filter your environmental ambient frequencies add some compression. its insane to me how many even professional podcasts dont simple stuff like this
[2024-01-24 19:59:14] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:anjo3060| most phones and laptop speakers wont play any freqs under 100 hz, but headphones will. always high pass filter. bonus if you notch filter your environmental ambient frequencies add some compression. its insane to me how many even professional podcasts dont simple stuff like this
[2024-01-24 20:39:50] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| tronbros...
[2024-01-24 20:39:50] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| tronbros...
[2024-01-24 20:39:50] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199891345662291968/remove-fort.jpg?ex=65c430e5&is=65b1bbe5&hm=83a1bd712ed6d7dd227367c2e478a52a6fb7c3a0ccf5508c12627bf16ce4e6c9&
[2024-01-24 20:39:51] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199891345662291968/remove-fort.jpg?ex=65c430e5&is=65b1bbe5&hm=83a1bd712ed6d7dd227367c2e478a52a6fb7c3a0ccf5508c12627bf16ce4e6c9&
[2024-01-24 20:40:00] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| fort -1
[2024-01-24 20:40:00] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| fort -1
[2024-01-24 20:40:09] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| how long sine?
[2024-01-24 20:40:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| how long sine?
[2024-01-24 20:40:14] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| mine was on 2 weeks
[2024-01-24 20:40:14] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| mine was on 2 weeks
[2024-01-24 20:40:49] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| no way to know, I have to make an appointment with orthopedics.
[2024-01-24 20:40:49] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| no way to know, I have to make an appointment with orthopedics.
[2024-01-24 20:40:59] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| gl with it
[2024-01-24 20:41:00] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| gl with it
[2024-01-24 20:41:45] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I feel like this is overkill, but I haven't seen the improvment I expected so...
[2024-01-24 20:41:45] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I feel like this is overkill, but I haven't seen the improvment I expected so...
[2024-01-24 20:41:57] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| trust the system I guess
[2024-01-24 20:41:57] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| trust the system I guess
[2024-01-24 20:42:04] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| nothing broken though?
[2024-01-24 20:42:05] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| nothing broken though?
[2024-01-24 20:42:14] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| its for the best im sure
[2024-01-24 20:42:14] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| its for the best im sure
[2024-01-24 20:42:51] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| They said their might be a fracture so orthopedics needs to look closer
[2024-01-24 20:42:51] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| They said their might be a fracture so orthopedics needs to look closer
[2024-01-24 20:43:06] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| xray inconclusive
[2024-01-24 20:43:06] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| xray inconclusive
[2024-01-24 20:43:18] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ๐
[2024-01-24 20:43:19] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ๐
[2024-01-24 20:45:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I miss HTC. The One series had some wicked speakers on it
[2024-01-24 20:45:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I miss HTC. The One series had some wicked speakers on it
[2024-01-24 20:48:38] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| possible intra-articular fracture near distral humerus... or so the paperwork says.
[2024-01-24 20:48:39] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| possible intra-articular fracture near distral humerus... or so the paperwork says.
[2024-01-24 20:48:39] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199893563601854534/arm.jpg?ex=65c432f6&is=65b1bdf6&hm=e79d3704617ff792a961ab9d5e1c5aa570a89135d6f1c9dd5c49afce2d4ed74d&
[2024-01-24 20:48:40] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199893563601854534/arm.jpg?ex=65c432f6&is=65b1bdf6&hm=e79d3704617ff792a961ab9d5e1c5aa570a89135d6f1c9dd5c49afce2d4ed74d&
[2024-01-24 21:48:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I can't see it
[2024-01-24 21:48:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I can't see it
[2024-01-24 21:50:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| unless it's what I'm thinking is the lateral... the bit your ligament attaches to
[2024-01-24 21:50:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| unless it's what I'm thinking is the lateral... the bit your ligament attaches to
[2024-01-24 21:50:21] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| epicondyle?
[2024-01-24 21:50:21] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| epicondyle?
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[2024-01-25 01:11:53] <Lucifer_arma> Here's a crazy idea. The country is run by boomers/silent generation, and there's this ongoing, uh, rivalry between them and gen z'ers and millenials
[2024-01-25 01:11:53] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Here's a crazy idea. The country is run by boomers/silent generation, and there's this ongoing, uh, rivalry between them and gen z'ers and millenials
[2024-01-25 01:12:25] <Lucifer_arma> so we're clear, boomers created heavy metal and made a lot of the 80s music we all love so much, and millenials are the kids who went to high school when grunge was hitting the charts
[2024-01-25 01:12:25] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so we're clear, boomers created heavy metal and made a lot of the 80s music we all love so much, and millenials are the kids who went to high school when grunge was hitting the charts
[2024-01-25 01:12:38] <Lucifer_arma> sandwiched between the two are us, Generation X.
[2024-01-25 01:12:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| sandwiched between the two are us, Generation X.
[2024-01-25 01:12:54] <Lucifer_arma> Now, gen x is a pretty quiet generation. Y'all have probably seen memes about it.
[2024-01-25 01:12:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Now, gen x is a pretty quiet generation. Y'all have probably seen memes about it.
[2024-01-25 01:13:26] <Lucifer_arma> So there's a big question about us. Why are we so quiet? (First of all, occupy wall street was a gen x thing, but let's take this premise as it is)
[2024-01-25 01:13:27] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| So there's a big question about us. Why are we so quiet? (First of all, occupy wall street was a gen x thing, but let's take this premise as it is)
[2024-01-25 01:14:02] <Lucifer_arma> I think the answer to why we're so quiet in general is because we're the ones who had to overthrow and settle the Satanic Panic. It didn't "naturally ebb off". It ended because we fought back against it and ended it
[2024-01-25 01:14:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I think the answer to why we're so quiet in general is because we're the ones who had to overthrow and settle the Satanic Panic. It didn't "naturally ebb off". It ended because we fought back against it and ended it
[2024-01-25 01:14:39] <Lucifer_arma> before we even finished college, we already had to come together and deal with this massive social issue that amounted to a whole shitload of social injustice
[2024-01-25 01:14:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| before we even finished college, we already had to come together and deal with this massive social issue that amounted to a whole shitload of social injustice
[2024-01-25 01:14:54] <Lucifer_arma> Curious how y'all europeans experienced it, because i know some version of it happened over there, too
[2024-01-25 01:14:54] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Curious how y'all europeans experienced it, because i know some version of it happened over there, too
[2024-01-25 01:15:14] <Lucifer_arma> so we entered adulthood having already accomplished something huge
[2024-01-25 01:15:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| so we entered adulthood having already accomplished something huge
[2024-01-25 01:15:35] <Lucifer_arma> @sine.wav I *know* you're going to have something to say about this
[2024-01-25 01:15:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @sine.wav I *know* you're going to have something to say about this
[2024-01-25 01:16:13] <Lucifer_arma> (also, we elected Obama, so give us some credit for doing real shit)
[2024-01-25 01:16:14] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (also, we elected Obama, so give us some credit for doing real shit)
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[2024-01-25 03:20:06] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| Had never heard of this before today (gen z technically)
[2024-01-25 03:20:06] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| Had never heard of this before today (gen z technically)
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[2024-01-25 03:27:51] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199994028729569352/1940197672.png?ex=65c49087&is=65b21b87&hm=2d880edaa01f67670a0170fc3dc8261bf08fee8d6bc77d61aee466b75e4de8f5&
[2024-01-25 03:27:51] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1199994028729569352/1940197672.png?ex=65c49087&is=65b21b87&hm=2d880edaa01f67670a0170fc3dc8261bf08fee8d6bc77d61aee466b75e4de8f5&
[2024-01-25 03:30:16] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| IDK what you want to talk about, there has always been Generation conflicts^^ surely in the last decades there has been more since art and culture spread like a wildfire through the Inter/net
[2024-01-25 03:30:16] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| IDK what you want to talk about, there has always been Generation conflicts^^ surely in the last decades there has been more since art and culture spread like a wildfire through the Inter/net
[2024-01-25 03:34:22] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| For every social conflict tho: hate the game not the players/generation/sex/gender/u name it
[2024-01-25 03:34:22] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| For every social conflict tho: hate the game not the players/generation/sex/gender/u name it
[2024-01-25 03:51:26] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| To make this crystal clear, there are generation conflicts but most are induced by the unequal distribution of wealth
[2024-01-25 03:51:26] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| To make this crystal clear, there are generation conflicts but most are induced by the unequal distribution of wealth
[2024-01-25 03:51:42] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| ๐ถ
[2024-01-25 03:51:42] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| ๐ถ
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[2024-01-25 04:22:52] <Lucifer_arma> I agree wholeheartedly and refuse to engage in generational conflict
[2024-01-25 04:22:52] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I agree wholeheartedly and refuse to engage in generational conflict
[2024-01-25 04:23:15] <Lucifer_arma> I'm really just highlighting that the generation that grew up with the satanic panic had to defeat it as a rite of passage
[2024-01-25 04:23:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm really just highlighting that the generation that grew up with the satanic panic had to defeat it as a rite of passage
[2024-01-25 04:23:38] <Lucifer_arma> I get that the boomers were fighting both the actual vietnam war and against the vietname war
[2024-01-25 04:23:38] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I get that the boomers were fighting both the actual vietnam war and against the vietname war
[2024-01-25 04:24:31] <Lucifer_arma> but while they were worried about being drafted and sent to die in a foreign land, we were worried about being incarcerated in a makeshift mental institution for daring to have thoughts of our own
[2024-01-25 04:24:31] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but while they were worried about being drafted and sent to die in a foreign land, we were worried about being incarcerated in a makeshift mental institution for daring to have thoughts of our own
[2024-01-25 04:24:40] <Lucifer_arma> different kind of trauma
[2024-01-25 04:24:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| different kind of trauma
[2024-01-25 04:25:28] <Lucifer_arma> because the satanic panic happened while the previous sanitarium system was being dismantled and replaced with the mental hospital system we have now (they are different, I promise)
[2024-01-25 04:25:28] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| because the satanic panic happened while the previous sanitarium system was being dismantled and replaced with the mental hospital system we have now (they are different, I promise)
[2024-01-25 04:25:57] <Lucifer_arma> and we were all being called loonies for listening to Metallica, playing D&D, and liking the movie TRON a little too much
[2024-01-25 04:25:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and we were all being called loonies for listening to Metallica, playing D&D, and liking the movie TRON a little too much
[2024-01-25 04:32:40] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Dafuq is satanic panic?
[2024-01-25 04:32:40] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Dafuq is satanic panic?
[2024-01-25 04:49:32] <Lucifer_arma> really? This is a pretty significant thing that happened back in the 70s and 80s and early 90s
[2024-01-25 04:49:32] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| really? This is a pretty significant thing that happened back in the 70s and 80s and early 90s
[2024-01-25 04:50:28] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW6UoIjy5F4 <-- this video describes it more or less how I experienced it
[2024-01-25 04:50:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW6UoIjy5F4 <-- this video describes it more or less how I experienced it
[2024-01-25 04:52:10] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msh5RWXzxjI <--- this is a well-researched video that touches on the topic, but it fails to really portray it as it was to those of us who lived it. Still, it provides a great deal of information and I enjoyed watching it
[2024-01-25 04:52:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msh5RWXzxjI <--- this is a well-researched video that touches on the topic, but it fails to really portray it as it was to those of us who lived it. Still, it provides a great deal of information and I enjoyed watching it
[2024-01-25 04:52:52] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| lol still sounds more or less like a subculture thing
[2024-01-25 04:52:52] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| lol still sounds more or less like a subculture thing
[2024-01-25 04:52:58] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGUlW6YgHjE&t=572s <-- this is just a fun video that completely misses the reason csv files exist. It had nothing to do with satanic panic
[2024-01-25 04:52:58] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGUlW6YgHjE&t=572s <-- this is just a fun video that completely misses the reason csv files exist. It had nothing to do with satanic panic
[2024-01-25 04:53:05] <Lucifer_arma> no, it was fucking everywhere, man
[2024-01-25 04:53:05] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, it was fucking everywhere, man
[2024-01-25 04:53:13] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| oO
[2024-01-25 04:53:13] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| oO
[2024-01-25 04:53:20] <Lucifer_arma> if you looked at someone funny, they accused you of being a satanist
[2024-01-25 04:53:20] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| if you looked at someone funny, they accused you of being a satanist
[2024-01-25 04:53:28] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Haha
[2024-01-25 04:53:29] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Haha
[2024-01-25 04:53:33] <Lucifer_arma> it's like a second red scare, except instead of communists, it was satanists
[2024-01-25 04:53:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's like a second red scare, except instead of communists, it was satanists
[2024-01-25 04:53:40] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Yeah then it's a usa thing
[2024-01-25 04:53:40] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Yeah then it's a usa thing
[2024-01-25 04:53:51] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| That we had in Europe too
[2024-01-25 04:53:51] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| That we had in Europe too
[2024-01-25 04:54:23] <Lucifer_arma> I actually got grounded when I was 12 because I had blue eyes and nearly blond hair (I'm a sandy brown, but back then, it was close to blond) because there were rumors there was a satanic cult that was looking to abduct a young virgin boy with blue eyes and blond hair
[2024-01-25 04:54:23] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I actually got grounded when I was 12 because I had blue eyes and nearly blond hair (I'm a sandy brown, but back then, it was close to blond) because there were rumors there was a satanic cult that was looking to abduct a young virgin boy with blue eyes and blond hair
[2024-01-25 04:54:29] <Lucifer_arma> THE CULT DIDN'T EXIST!
[2024-01-25 04:54:29] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| THE CULT DIDN'T EXIST!
[2024-01-25 04:54:35] <Lucifer_arma> it was JUST rumors!
[2024-01-25 04:54:36] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it was JUST rumors!
[2024-01-25 04:54:41] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| xD8
[2024-01-25 04:54:42] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| xD8
[2024-01-25 04:54:43] <Lucifer_arma> it was a panic
[2024-01-25 04:54:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it was a panic
[2024-01-25 04:55:04] <Lucifer_arma> and it was huuuuuge
[2024-01-25 04:55:04] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and it was huuuuuge
[2024-01-25 04:55:22] <Lucifer_arma> watch those videos, there were senate subcomittee hearings and everything
[2024-01-25 04:55:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| watch those videos, there were senate subcomittee hearings and everything
[2024-01-25 04:55:34] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| I can just laugh about it tho
[2024-01-25 04:55:35] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| I can just laugh about it tho
[2024-01-25 04:55:39] <Lucifer_arma> Dee Snider (famous for saying "We're not going to take it anymore") testified
[2024-01-25 04:55:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Dee Snider (famous for saying "We're not going to take it anymore") testified
[2024-01-25 04:55:51] <Lucifer_arma> no, you can't laugh at other people's trauma, that makes you a dick
[2024-01-25 04:55:51] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, you can't laugh at other people's trauma, that makes you a dick
[2024-01-25 04:56:15] <Lucifer_arma> watch those videos. I know you haven't, because combined they're like two hours long
[2024-01-25 04:56:15] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| watch those videos. I know you haven't, because combined they're like two hours long
[2024-01-25 04:56:37] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| It just sounds so unimaginable
[2024-01-25 04:56:37] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| It just sounds so unimaginable
[2024-01-25 04:56:43] <Lucifer_arma> I LIVED it
[2024-01-25 04:56:43] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I LIVED it
[2024-01-25 04:56:50] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| For outstanders
[2024-01-25 04:56:50] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| For outstanders
[2024-01-25 04:57:04] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Welp, will watch it
[2024-01-25 04:57:04] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Welp, will watch it
[2024-01-25 04:57:09] <Lucifer_arma> you mean outsiders. Should I laugh that english isn't a first language for you?
[2024-01-25 04:57:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| you mean outsiders. Should I laugh that english isn't a first language for you?
[2024-01-25 04:58:09] <Lucifer_arma> (unless UK english says "outstanders" where USA english says "outsiders", in which case I'm the dick right now)
[2024-01-25 04:58:10] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| (unless UK english says "outstanders" where USA english says "outsiders", in which case I'm the dick right now)
[2024-01-25 04:58:21] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Yes. I recognised my mistake tho.
[2024-01-25 04:58:21] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Yes. I recognised my mistake tho.
[2024-01-25 04:59:00] <Lucifer_arma> and for the record, TRON got caught up in the satanic panic too, but not nearly as much as D&D and metal music and the others
[2024-01-25 04:59:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| and for the record, TRON got caught up in the satanic panic too, but not nearly as much as D&D and metal music and the others
[2024-01-25 04:59:02] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Yes as in laugh at me. I'll get it back on you, I promise! xD
[2024-01-25 04:59:02] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Yes as in laugh at me. I'll get it back on you, I promise! xD
[2024-01-25 05:00:03] <Lucifer_arma> at a certain point, it really was if you used your imagination, you were an evil satanist
[2024-01-25 05:00:03] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| at a certain point, it really was if you used your imagination, you were an evil satanist
[2024-01-25 05:00:31] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Mhm
[2024-01-25 05:00:31] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:stereo_system| Mhm
[2024-01-25 05:00:39] <Lucifer_arma> this is how I picked my name, ultimately. Like, when people pitch a bitch fit about one of the leads in this project being called Lucifer, well, this is part of it
[2024-01-25 05:00:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| this is how I picked my name, ultimately. Like, when people pitch a bitch fit about one of the leads in this project being called Lucifer, well, this is part of it
[2024-01-25 05:01:55] <Lucifer_arma> but it's a really good example of a time when teenagers fought against their stupid parents' bullshit, and the kids were right
[2024-01-25 05:01:55] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| but it's a really good example of a time when teenagers fought against their stupid parents' bullshit, and the kids were right
[2024-01-25 05:02:06] <Lucifer_arma> We were always alright (that's a song reference to a song I've never heard)
[2024-01-25 05:02:07] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| We were always alright (that's a song reference to a song I've never heard)
[2024-01-25 05:03:43] <Lucifer_arma> I believe that germany actually denazifying in the late 60s is similar, but it's also different. Context matters. But one thing that's the same: the powers we all fought against were trying to control us, and we wanted freedom
[2024-01-25 05:03:44] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I believe that germany actually denazifying in the late 60s is similar, but it's also different. Context matters. But one thing that's the same: the powers we all fought against were trying to control us, and we wanted freedom
[2024-01-25 05:04:12] <Lucifer_arma> Curiously, the free software foundation was created literally at the same time that the senate hearings were going on
[2024-01-25 05:04:12] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Curiously, the free software foundation was created literally at the same time that the senate hearings were going on
[2024-01-25 05:05:34] <Lucifer_arma> Billy Joel toured the soviet union in this time.
[2024-01-25 05:05:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Billy Joel toured the soviet union in this time.
[2024-01-25 05:05:45] <Lucifer_arma> Hm, it seems there's a lot of interesting connections to make here
[2024-01-25 05:05:45] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| Hm, it seems there's a lot of interesting connections to make here
[2024-01-25 05:16:22] <Lucifer_arma> i think we should study "Critical Satanic Panic Theory" as a way of understanding the 80s
[2024-01-25 05:16:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| i think we should study "Critical Satanic Panic Theory" as a way of understanding the 80s
[2024-01-25 05:16:32] <Lucifer_arma> I'm always looking for new ways to bait conservatives
[2024-01-25 05:16:33] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm always looking for new ways to bait conservatives
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[2024-01-25 12:49:24] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| message edits and deletes don't get relayed to irc
[2024-01-25 12:49:25] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| message edits and deletes don't get relayed to irc
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[2024-01-25 13:26:49] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
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[2024-01-25 13:26:52] -!- larich.oftc.net set mode #armagetron +nt
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[2024-01-25 13:28:07] -!- erbium.libera.chat set mode #armagetron +nt
[2024-01-25 13:28:07] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2024-01-25 13:35:42] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| technically, they could. if it's only 1 word that's changed, it would be sufficient to have it automatically send for example `s/naem/name`
[2024-01-25 13:35:42] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| technically, they could. if it's only 1 word that's changed, it would be sufficient to have it automatically send for example `s/naem/name`
[2024-01-25 13:36:17] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| if its a more complicated edit to a recent message, then at that point it could resend the message but in its edited form
[2024-01-25 13:36:17] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| if its a more complicated edit to a recent message, then at that point it could resend the message but in its edited form
[2024-01-25 13:37:38] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| edits of older messages can be ignored
[2024-01-25 13:37:38] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| edits of older messages can be ignored
[2024-01-25 13:39:27] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Matterbridge can handle edits, but it makes for a heck of a lot of discontinuity in IRC and it doesn't seem to permit adjusting the timeframe in which an edited message will be resent. It's cleaner to not bother with that functionality, given the clutter already in IRC messages. I still have to adjust the name indicator, completely forgot about that
[2024-01-25 13:39:28] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Matterbridge can handle edits, but it makes for a heck of a lot of discontinuity in IRC and it doesn't seem to permit adjusting the timeframe in which an edited message will be resent. It's cleaner to not bother with that functionality, given the clutter already in IRC messages. I still have to adjust the name indicator, completely forgot about that
[2024-01-25 13:40:00] <monr0e> oh wait, maybe I did do that
[2024-01-25 13:40:00] <armagetron-bridge> 12irc:monr0e| oh wait, maybe I did do that
[2024-01-25 13:40:09] <monr0e> brain like a sieve
[2024-01-25 13:40:10] <armagetron-bridge> 12irc:monr0e| brain like a sieve
[2024-01-25 14:23:56] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh?
[2024-01-25 14:23:57] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| huh?
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[2024-01-25 14:44:24] -!- Topic for #armagetron is "Armagetron Advanced | http://www.armagetronad.org/ | Welcome to IRC"
[2024-01-25 14:44:24] -!- Topic set by ChanServ!services@services.oftc.net on 2022-12-21 00:36:08 UTC
[2024-01-25 14:44:24] -!- iridium.libera.chat set mode #armagetron +nt
[2024-01-25 14:44:24] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
[2024-01-25 14:44:25] -!- larich.oftc.net set mode #armagetron +nt
[2024-01-25 14:44:25] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
[2024-01-25 15:30:42] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| and replies?
[2024-01-25 15:30:42] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| and replies?
[2024-01-25 15:31:42] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| oh yeah, another thing i feel like it should be able to handle correctly from irc to discord are mentions
[2024-01-25 15:31:42] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| oh yeah, another thing i feel like it should be able to handle correctly from irc to discord are mentions
[2024-01-25 15:31:48] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| like `@sine.wav`
[2024-01-25 15:31:48] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| like `@sine.wav`
[2024-01-25 15:34:50] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| maybe in cases where there are multiple users with the same name, take the one that either has that as the discord username, or if that isn't possible take the one that has posted more recently
[2024-01-25 15:34:50] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| maybe in cases where there are multiple users with the same name, take the one that either has that as the discord username, or if that isn't possible take the one that has posted more recently
[2024-01-25 15:44:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Doesn't do replies at all
[2024-01-25 15:44:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Doesn't do replies at all
[2024-01-25 15:45:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| see, it's *supposed* to do mentions. I don't know why it does in `#reddit-sysadmin` and not here, but it's certainly *supposed* to
[2024-01-25 15:45:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| see, it's *supposed* to do mentions. I don't know why it does in `#reddit-sysadmin` and not here, but it's certainly *supposed* to
[2024-01-25 15:45:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I wonder
[2024-01-25 15:45:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I wonder
[2024-01-25 15:45:21] <monr0e> @delinquent
[2024-01-25 15:45:22] <armagetron-bridge> 12irc:monr0e| @delinquent
[2024-01-25 15:45:27] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh that works
[2024-01-25 15:45:27] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh that works
[2024-01-25 15:45:45] <monr0e> @Nélg
[2024-01-25 15:45:45] <armagetron-bridge> 12irc:monr0e| @Nélg
[2024-01-25 15:45:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| hmmm.
[2024-01-25 15:45:54] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| hmmm.
[2024-01-25 15:52:12] <Armanelgtron> @Armanelgtron
[2024-01-25 15:52:13] <armagetronbridge> 14irc:Armanelgtron| @Armanelgtron
[2024-01-25 15:52:21] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| you have to specify usernames
[2024-01-25 15:52:21] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| you have to specify usernames
[2024-01-25 15:52:27] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| discord usernames
[2024-01-25 15:52:28] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| discord usernames
[2024-01-25 15:52:28] <Armanelgtron> @armanelgtron
[2024-01-25 15:52:29] <armagetronbridge> 14irc:Armanelgtron| @armanelgtron
[2024-01-25 15:52:41] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| there you go
[2024-01-25 15:52:41] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| there you go
[2024-01-25 15:52:53] <Armanelgtron> @Juesto
[2024-01-25 15:52:54] <armagetronbridge> 14irc:Armanelgtron| @Juesto
[2024-01-25 15:52:58] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| in my case it's with the discriminator
[2024-01-25 15:52:58] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| in my case it's with the discriminator
[2024-01-25 15:52:58] <Armanelgtron> ok
[2024-01-25 15:52:58] <armagetronbridge> 14irc:Armanelgtron| ok
[2024-01-25 15:54:07] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| the problem is that it doesn't show usernames but display names it seems?
[2024-01-25 15:54:07] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| the problem is that it doesn't show usernames but display names it seems?
[2024-01-25 15:55:08] <Armanelgtron> @northernscrub
[2024-01-25 15:55:08] <armagetronbridge> 14irc:Armanelgtron| @northernscrub
[2024-01-25 15:55:11] <Armanelgtron> @delinquent
[2024-01-25 15:55:11] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| the bridge seems to mix teh two at randm
[2024-01-25 15:55:11] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| the bridge seems to mix teh two at randm
[2024-01-25 15:55:12] <armagetronbridge> 14irc:Armanelgtron| @delinquent
[2024-01-25 16:01:23] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| i guess it's just random
[2024-01-25 16:01:23] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| i guess it's just random
[2024-01-25 16:01:24] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1200183661828517998/image.png?ex=65c54123&is=65b2cc23&hm=3e166c44cd8afd4ceb20b8bb0533e71c71f3db7f244c454ab53a87bcff2cd86a&
[2024-01-25 16:01:24] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1200183661828517998/image.png?ex=65c54123&is=65b2cc23&hm=3e166c44cd8afd4ceb20b8bb0533e71c71f3db7f244c454ab53a87bcff2cd86a&
[2024-01-25 16:01:25] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1200183662067597482/image.png?ex=65c54123&is=65b2cc23&hm=3d5fba3f0cdca0a7082b339f43cf35d444f4a90ddb409ad1bbf2c7864a1627b4&
[2024-01-25 16:01:25] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/209759416604426242/1200183662067597482/image.png?ex=65c54123&is=65b2cc23&hm=3d5fba3f0cdca0a7082b339f43cf35d444f4a90ddb409ad1bbf2c7864a1627b4&
[2024-01-25 16:02:40] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| or no it's probably the colon
[2024-01-25 16:02:40] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| or no it's probably the colon
[2024-01-25 18:31:22] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I don't know that GenX is quiet. A lot of the loudest reactionaries are GenX and quite a few of my friends are casually racist, sexist, and homophobic. I think it would be nice if they shut the hell up honestly. GenX is part of why Facebook became insufferable.
[2024-01-25 18:31:22] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| I don't know that GenX is quiet. A lot of the loudest reactionaries are GenX and quite a few of my friends are casually racist, sexist, and homophobic. I think it would be nice if they shut the hell up honestly. GenX is part of why Facebook became insufferable.
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[2024-01-25 22:13:07] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:daya.k| Humans make Facebook insufferable
[2024-01-25 22:13:08] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:daya.k| Humans make Facebook insufferable
[2024-01-25 22:37:56] <Lucifer_arma> it's also the humans behind facebook that made it insufferable
[2024-01-25 22:37:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| it's also the humans behind facebook that made it insufferable
[2024-01-25 22:38:11] <Lucifer_arma> <-- finally deleted his facebook account over a year ago and has been much happier overall
[2024-01-25 22:38:11] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| <-- finally deleted his facebook account over a year ago and has been much happier overall
[2024-01-25 22:39:24] <Lucifer_arma> oh wow, it's actually pretty close to two years ago. I deleted it in april 2022
[2024-01-25 22:39:24] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| oh wow, it's actually pretty close to two years ago. I deleted it in april 2022
[2024-01-25 22:40:21] <Lucifer_arma> GenX hasn't been quiet, really. it's just that in the boomers vs millenial/gen-z rivalry, genx gets left out for some reason, usually someone saying we're quiet
[2024-01-25 22:40:22] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| GenX hasn't been quiet, really. it's just that in the boomers vs millenial/gen-z rivalry, genx gets left out for some reason, usually someone saying we're quiet
[2024-01-25 22:40:57] <Lucifer_arma> I'm also aware of the direct line that you can draw from the satanic panic to the current conspiracy theory/anti-vax culture
[2024-01-25 22:40:57] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm also aware of the direct line that you can draw from the satanic panic to the current conspiracy theory/anti-vax culture
[2024-01-25 22:41:42] <Lucifer_arma> which strongly suggests that the panic never ended, it just morphed and became more dangerous by producing Trump
[2024-01-25 22:41:42] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| which strongly suggests that the panic never ended, it just morphed and became more dangerous by producing Trump
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[2024-01-26 02:07:39] <Lucifer_arma> someone should make a website that answers the question "Where is the shooting happening right now?" with a map that you can zoom in on and see where the shooting is happening
[2024-01-26 02:07:39] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| someone should make a website that answers the question "Where is the shooting happening right now?" with a map that you can zoom in on and see where the shooting is happening
[2024-01-26 02:10:35] <Lucifer_arma> as an added bonus, it should plot the guns nearby based on registration information (which isn't available electronically)
[2024-01-26 02:10:35] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| as an added bonus, it should plot the guns nearby based on registration information (which isn't available electronically)
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[2024-01-26 19:06:21] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| i know it's not exactly accessible to the public like your idea suggests, but a lot of city police departments have already implemented ShotSpotter devices that are placed in high crime zones, that listen for gunshots, and forward a location of where the shots are coming from to law enforcement
[2024-01-26 19:06:22] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| i know it's not exactly accessible to the public like your idea suggests, but a lot of city police departments have already implemented ShotSpotter devices that are placed in high crime zones, that listen for gunshots, and forward a location of where the shots are coming from to law enforcement
[2024-01-26 19:12:20] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:magi_cake| I feel like a site of this sort would promote the idea of vigilantism or worse, rioting for the twisted minds, and the government would actively take it down.
[2024-01-26 19:12:20] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:magi_cake| I feel like a site of this sort would promote the idea of vigilantism or worse, rioting for the twisted minds, and the government would actively take it down.
[2024-01-26 19:14:13] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| most people can already track the location down anyways via public police scanners
[2024-01-26 19:14:13] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| most people can already track the location down anyways via public police scanners
[2024-01-26 20:41:04] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:tekeyoyo| Somebody here likes Formula 1?
[2024-01-26 20:41:04] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:tekeyoyo| Somebody here likes Formula 1?
[2024-01-26 22:54:02] <Lucifer_arma> well, a site like this would be all about politics and gun control, so it would be all over the site. It would show in realtime what's happening in a country with few gun laws
[2024-01-26 22:54:02] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| well, a site like this would be all about politics and gun control, so it would be all over the site. It would show in realtime what's happening in a country with few gun laws
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[2024-01-27 08:25:23] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| #sports-discussion
[2024-01-27 08:25:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| #sports-discussion
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[2024-01-27 18:36:10] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| I think we'd have less firearm related violence if we legalized mutual, non felonious, non aggravated assault between two consenting parties, with one law enforcement officer on scene to mediate. shake hands, then settle it.
[2024-01-27 18:36:10] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| I think we'd have less firearm related violence if we legalized mutual, non felonious, non aggravated assault between two consenting parties, with one law enforcement officer on scene to mediate. shake hands, then settle it.
[2024-01-27 18:36:29] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| but that's just too damn reasonable
[2024-01-27 18:36:29] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| but that's just too damn reasonable
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[2024-01-27 18:57:17] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I just had a little psu brick explode under my desk. Scare the living shite out of me and now I'm down a monitor
[2024-01-27 18:57:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I just had a little psu brick explode under my desk. Scare the living shite out of me and now I'm down a monitor
[2024-01-27 19:36:01] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| what psu was it deli?
[2024-01-27 19:36:02] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| what psu was it deli?
[2024-01-27 19:48:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| one of those power brick things. Utterly stinks
[2024-01-27 19:48:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| one of those power brick things. Utterly stinks
[2024-01-27 19:48:57] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| as in, it actually smells bloody awful
[2024-01-27 19:48:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| as in, it actually smells bloody awful
[2024-01-27 19:50:50] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| lucky there was no fire
[2024-01-27 19:50:51] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| lucky there was no fire
[2024-01-27 19:51:44] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Not enough amperage there I don't think. I think it was the transformer popping, so no shorts, just lots of mess. Either that or a cap going *ppof*
[2024-01-27 19:51:44] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Not enough amperage there I don't think. I think it was the transformer popping, so no shorts, just lots of mess. Either that or a cap going *ppof*
[2024-01-27 19:52:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| actually a cap sounds more like it, every so often it would flicker and turn itslef off for a bit
[2024-01-27 19:52:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| actually a cap sounds more like it, every so often it would flicker and turn itslef off for a bit
[2024-01-27 19:52:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I put it down to cable interference, and actually bought a better DP cable too
[2024-01-27 19:52:22] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I put it down to cable interference, and actually bought a better DP cable too
[2024-01-27 19:52:48] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also the wood screws in the back of it prolly didnt help
[2024-01-27 19:52:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Also the wood screws in the back of it prolly didnt help
[2024-01-27 19:53:11] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| my plumber's dad bought a rechargeable light from amazon. one night it caught fire and nearly burnt his house down...he couldnt live there for months
[2024-01-27 19:53:11] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| my plumber's dad bought a rechargeable light from amazon. one night it caught fire and nearly burnt his house down...he couldnt live there for months
[2024-01-27 19:53:24] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| gotta be careful with those cheap things
[2024-01-27 19:53:24] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| gotta be careful with those cheap things
[2024-01-27 19:53:30] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh fuck buying anything from amazon, it's all cheap chinese tat
[2024-01-27 19:53:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh fuck buying anything from amazon, it's all cheap chinese tat
[2024-01-27 19:53:37] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| mostly yeah
[2024-01-27 19:53:37] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| mostly yeah
[2024-01-27 19:54:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| mostly? lol, it's *all* like that these days. I don't bother with it except for those bulk spices that get imported from thailand and india and the like
[2024-01-27 19:54:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| mostly? lol, it's *all* like that these days. I don't bother with it except for those bulk spices that get imported from thailand and india and the like
[2024-01-27 19:54:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh and the soy sauce, but that's actually *made* in china so
[2024-01-27 19:54:37] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| oh and the soy sauce, but that's actually *made* in china so
[2024-01-27 19:54:44] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| you can buy brand goods but the vast majority is shite
[2024-01-27 19:54:44] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| you can buy brand goods but the vast majority is shite
[2024-01-27 19:55:10] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| also amazons website is utter shite
[2024-01-27 19:55:10] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| also amazons website is utter shite
[2024-01-27 19:55:25] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i dont know how they can have that site, its an embarrassment
[2024-01-27 19:55:25] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| i dont know how they can have that site, its an embarrassment
[2024-01-27 19:55:35] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Hey, at least its lightweight
[2024-01-27 19:55:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Hey, at least its lightweight
[2024-01-27 19:55:38] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| sort of
[2024-01-27 19:55:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| sort of
[2024-01-27 19:55:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm scouring ebay atm and its sluggish af
[2024-01-27 19:55:48] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm scouring ebay atm and its sluggish af
[2024-01-27 19:55:48] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| im not even sure it is lightweight
[2024-01-27 19:55:49] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| im not even sure it is lightweight
[2024-01-27 19:55:58] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but at least ebay has structure and filters
[2024-01-27 19:55:58] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| but at least ebay has structure and filters
[2024-01-27 19:56:11] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| the ones on amazon mean nothing
[2024-01-27 19:56:11] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| the ones on amazon mean nothing
[2024-01-27 19:56:29] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| hah. Ebay filters are shit too. Can't eliminate anything that only has collection in person
[2024-01-27 19:56:30] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| hah. Ebay filters are shit too. Can't eliminate anything that only has collection in person
[2024-01-27 19:56:58] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I got really excited when I saw this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256386984099
[2024-01-27 19:56:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I got really excited when I saw this: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/256386984099
[2024-01-27 19:57:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| twenty. fucking. quid.
[2024-01-27 19:57:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| twenty. fucking. quid.
[2024-01-27 19:57:35] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| you can eliminate anything that only has collection in person
[2024-01-27 19:57:35] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| you can eliminate anything that only has collection in person
[2024-01-27 19:57:41] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| there's a filter for taht
[2024-01-27 19:57:41] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| there's a filter for taht
[2024-01-27 19:58:21] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| thats a sick monitor
[2024-01-27 19:58:21] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| thats a sick monitor
[2024-01-27 19:58:25] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| any dead cells?
[2024-01-27 19:58:25] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| any dead cells?
[2024-01-27 19:58:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| not as far as I can see
[2024-01-27 19:58:33] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| not as far as I can see
[2024-01-27 19:58:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| but I live 120 miles from warrington so
[2024-01-27 19:58:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| but I live 120 miles from warrington so
[2024-01-27 19:59:38] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah its a bit far
[2024-01-27 19:59:39] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| yeah its a bit far
[2024-01-27 19:59:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| also its only gonna be the replacement for my portrait monitor to the left, so it's not like it needs to be fancy. I just saw 27" and thought "ooh, it can match my middle monitor"
[2024-01-27 19:59:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| also its only gonna be the replacement for my portrait monitor to the left, so it's not like it needs to be fancy. I just saw 27" and thought "ooh, it can match my middle monitor"
[2024-01-27 20:00:07] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| that's a nice price for that monitor
[2024-01-27 20:00:07] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| that's a nice price for that monitor
[2024-01-27 20:00:21] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| and 100% seller although only 4 sales from him/her
[2024-01-27 20:00:21] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| and 100% seller although only 4 sales from him/her
[2024-01-27 20:01:36] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| looks too cheap ..his other items are worse but more expensive
[2024-01-27 20:01:37] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| looks too cheap ..his other items are worse but more expensive
[2024-01-27 20:01:45] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf I prefer someone with fewer sales. Means they're an individual and not some tramp trynna cash in on second hand sales and driving up the market price
[2024-01-27 20:01:45] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| tbf I prefer someone with fewer sales. Means they're an individual and not some tramp trynna cash in on second hand sales and driving up the market price
[2024-01-27 20:02:03] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| me too
[2024-01-27 20:02:03] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| me too
[2024-01-27 20:02:37] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| although that few....just gotta be a bit careful
[2024-01-27 20:02:37] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| although that few....just gotta be a bit careful
[2024-01-27 20:03:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Meh. Ebay is decent enough about refunds. And if they fuck me over, visa guarantee
[2024-01-27 20:03:07] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Meh. Ebay is decent enough about refunds. And if they fuck me over, visa guarantee
[2024-01-27 20:03:17] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| do you have paypal?
[2024-01-27 20:03:17] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| do you have paypal?
[2024-01-27 20:03:22] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| fuck no
[2024-01-27 20:03:22] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| fuck no
[2024-01-27 20:03:27] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| why not?
[2024-01-27 20:03:27] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| why not?
[2024-01-27 20:03:33] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| because fuck paypal
[2024-01-27 20:03:34] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| because fuck paypal
[2024-01-27 20:03:39] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| they owe me three grand
[2024-01-27 20:03:39] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| they owe me three grand
[2024-01-27 20:03:44] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| waat?
[2024-01-27 20:03:44] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| waat?
[2024-01-27 20:03:46] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya
[2024-01-27 20:03:46] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ya
[2024-01-27 20:03:49] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| how?
[2024-01-27 20:03:49] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| how?
[2024-01-27 20:04:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| and because of their stupid arbitration thing, they elected to fuck me over twice
[2024-01-27 20:04:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| and because of their stupid arbitration thing, they elected to fuck me over twice
[2024-01-27 20:04:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| can't take it to court either
[2024-01-27 20:04:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| can't take it to court either
[2024-01-27 20:11:14] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I had a business account years ago. I used it for managing a few things, including freelancing. Had an issue with a card that I had attached to it, and the bank account attached to that card, so I moved banks and went with Lloyds (btw fuck natwest). Paypal didn't like this for some reason, so they put a hold on everything. Including three grand that I was paid for a consultancy g <clipped message>
[2024-01-27 20:11:14] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I had a business account years ago. I used it for managing a few things, including freelancing. Had an issue with a card that I had attached to it, and the bank account attached to that card, so I moved banks and went with Lloyds (btw fuck natwest). Paypal didn't like this for some reason, so they put a hold on everything. Including three grand that I was paid for a consultancy g <clipped message>
[2024-01-27 20:11:14] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ig in 2015 or so. Phoned them a few times, sent them paperwork and whatnot, then they decided they would only release funds if I got myself a limited company and attached the account to it. That wasn't my business structure, and still isn't, and I refused to do so because... well, its fucking unreasonable, beyond all else. Paypal elected to then *close* that account, despite my p <clipped message>
[2024-01-27 20:11:15] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ig in 2015 or so. Phoned them a few times, sent them paperwork and whatnot, then they decided they would only release funds if I got myself a limited company and attached the account to it. That wasn't my business structure, and still isn't, and I refused to do so because... well, its fucking unreasonable, beyond all else. Paypal elected to then *close* that account, despite my p <clipped message>
[2024-01-27 20:11:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| rotestations, and... assumedly pocket my money. I kept on at them for a good couple months before it went to arbitration, so I rock up with a solicitor mate who's just got himself out of uni, only for them to tell me I can't have any legal representation there because it's not a courtroom. Apparently that's not on, but I was too daft to know and mate is fresh out of uni. Hey pres <clipped message>
[2024-01-27 20:11:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| rotestations, and... assumedly pocket my money. I kept on at them for a good couple months before it went to arbitration, so I rock up with a solicitor mate who's just got himself out of uni, only for them to tell me I can't have any legal representation there because it's not a courtroom. Apparently that's not on, but I was too daft to know and mate is fresh out of uni. Hey pres <clipped message>
[2024-01-27 20:11:17] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| to, arbitrators decide in Paypal's favour. Mate sends me off to an actual firm, who tell me I've done fucked up with the arbitration thing. Looking back, it's a setup from the beginning, and paypal relies on individuals not being completely aware of their rights, or not being able to afford legal advice - both of which were me.
[2024-01-27 20:11:18] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| to, arbitrators decide in Paypal's favour. Mate sends me off to an actual firm, who tell me I've done fucked up with the arbitration thing. Looking back, it's a setup from the beginning, and paypal relies on individuals not being completely aware of their rights, or not being able to afford legal advice - both of which were me.
[2024-01-27 20:11:18] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| So yeah, fuck paypal.
[2024-01-27 20:11:19] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| So yeah, fuck paypal.
[2024-01-27 20:12:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ugh just remembering that makes me mad
[2024-01-27 20:12:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ugh just remembering that makes me mad
[2024-01-27 20:12:15] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I didn't use ebay for years after that. Not until they uncoupled from paypal
[2024-01-27 20:12:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I didn't use ebay for years after that. Not until they uncoupled from paypal
[2024-01-27 20:12:53] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| That sucks yeah
[2024-01-27 20:12:53] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| That sucks yeah
[2024-01-27 20:13:36] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| so far, touch wood, ive had no issues..but then again, ive never had to raise a dispute
[2024-01-27 20:13:36] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| so far, touch wood, ive had no issues..but then again, ive never had to raise a dispute
[2024-01-27 20:13:37] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm not the only one either. Paypal have such a litany of complaints
[2024-01-27 20:13:38] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I'm not the only one either. Paypal have such a litany of complaints
[2024-01-27 20:13:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| anyway
[2024-01-27 20:13:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| anyway
[2024-01-27 20:13:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I settled and bought this
[2024-01-27 20:13:56] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I settled and bought this
[2024-01-27 20:13:56] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315020605276
[2024-01-27 20:13:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/315020605276
[2024-01-27 20:14:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| passable ips display which is nice
[2024-01-27 20:14:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| passable ips display which is nice
[2024-01-27 20:15:00] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| No HDMI on that monitor deli
[2024-01-27 20:15:00] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| No HDMI on that monitor deli
[2024-01-27 20:15:19] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| otherwise great
[2024-01-27 20:15:20] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| otherwise great
[2024-01-27 20:15:23] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Nope, the portrait one I have now is dvi-i
[2024-01-27 20:15:24] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Nope, the portrait one I have now is dvi-i
[2024-01-27 20:15:42] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ir maybe dvi-d... in any case I have so many adaptors I'll find one that fits no bother
[2024-01-27 20:15:42] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ir maybe dvi-d... in any case I have so many adaptors I'll find one that fits no bother
[2024-01-27 20:15:57] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| you know that drawer that most people have that's full of cables and such?
[2024-01-27 20:15:57] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| you know that drawer that most people have that's full of cables and such?
[2024-01-27 20:16:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I have three ottomans full
[2024-01-27 20:16:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I have three ottomans full
[2024-01-27 20:16:08] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I should get rid, buuuut
[2024-01-27 20:16:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I should get rid, buuuut
[2024-01-27 20:16:38] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ive got 2 tranparent boxes full of cables ,etc lol
[2024-01-27 20:16:38] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| ive got 2 tranparent boxes full of cables ,etc lol
[2024-01-27 20:17:07] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| yep. I keep meaning to go through them and sort it all but I never do
[2024-01-27 20:17:08] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| yep. I keep meaning to go through them and sort it all but I never do
[2024-01-27 20:17:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| In fact I really need to sort out that spare room. It's a dumping ground rn
[2024-01-27 20:17:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| In fact I really need to sort out that spare room. It's a dumping ground rn
[2024-01-27 20:19:23] <armagetronbridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| right id better go sleep, i gotta be up early tomorrow, gn man
[2024-01-27 20:19:24] <armagetron-bridge> 14discord:monkey_arma| right id better go sleep, i gotta be up early tomorrow, gn man
[2024-01-27 20:19:47] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| gn bud
[2024-01-27 20:19:47] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| gn bud
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[2024-01-27 23:21:54] -!- molybdenum.libera.chat set mode #armagetron +nt
[2024-01-27 23:21:54] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-05-20 17:23:14 UTC
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[2024-01-27 23:23:21] -!- Channel #armagetron created on 2021-04-20 19:56:37 UTC
[2024-01-27 23:29:40] <Lucifer_arma> @eezwp11: we have that in Texas. It's obviously not having the effect you're suggesting it would have
[2024-01-27 23:29:40] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| @eezwp11: we have that in Texas. It's obviously not having the effect you're suggesting it would have
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[2024-01-28 00:42:54] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| take it away and watch the violent crime rise i bet
[2024-01-28 00:42:55] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| take it away and watch the violent crime rise i bet
[2024-01-28 00:43:23] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| I'm also curious how many opt for that action out there
[2024-01-28 00:43:23] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| I'm also curious how many opt for that action out there
[2024-01-28 00:46:20] <armagetron-bridge> 03discord:eezwp11| actually i take that back. I'm willing to bet it's felons who are committing more felonious violent crime anyway, which would probably disqualify them from being able to participate in that lol
[2024-01-28 00:46:20] <armagetronbridge> 03discord:eezwp11| actually i take that back. I'm willing to bet it's felons who are committing more felonious violent crime anyway, which would probably disqualify them from being able to participate in that lol
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[2024-01-28 22:49:49] <Lucifer_arma> no, it's an old single combat law. The reality is that if you want to lower violent crime, you have to make it much harder to commit. Guns make it very easy to commit. So, logically, remove as many guns as possible, and you'll see crime drop
[2024-01-28 22:49:49] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| no, it's an old single combat law. The reality is that if you want to lower violent crime, you have to make it much harder to commit. Guns make it very easy to commit. So, logically, remove as many guns as possible, and you'll see crime drop
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[2024-01-29 00:46:14] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| bro that was so wild
[2024-01-29 00:46:14] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| bro that was so wild
[2024-01-29 07:05:08] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| sup
[2024-01-29 07:05:09] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| sup
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[2024-01-29 22:13:24] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| ripjaw played fort pickup for the first time last night
[2024-01-29 22:13:24] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| ripjaw played fort pickup for the first time last night
[2024-01-29 22:14:25] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| described it as "better than gltron" ๐
[2024-01-29 22:14:25] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| described it as "better than gltron" ๐
[2024-01-29 22:27:01] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh cool
[2024-01-29 22:27:01] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| heh cool
[2024-01-29 23:07:58] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| i might go on fort again in a little bit
[2024-01-29 23:07:58] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| i might go on fort again in a little bit
[2024-01-29 23:12:34] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| ok ping me when yall are on
[2024-01-29 23:12:35] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| ok ping me when yall are on
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[2024-01-30 05:40:41] <Lucifer_arma> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2-yhFTCCzY&si=jwtsDNb5QUAKq5pP <--- These guys remade the tron light cycle sequence with blender
[2024-01-30 05:40:41] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2-yhFTCCzY&si=jwtsDNb5QUAKq5pP <--- These guys remade the tron light cycle sequence with blender
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[2024-01-30 09:11:09] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| holy shit. I just looked at my usage charts for bandwidth. I have no Windows devices running updates or shite on my network. All I got is live monitoring, email, and a couple tiny websites that get very few visitors. My downloaded material regularly hits 400GB a month. wtf!?
[2024-01-30 09:11:09] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| holy shit. I just looked at my usage charts for bandwidth. I have no Windows devices running updates or shite on my network. All I got is live monitoring, email, and a couple tiny websites that get very few visitors. My downloaded material regularly hits 400GB a month. wtf!?
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[2024-01-30 09:23:04] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| your email and live monitoring does that much data
[2024-01-30 09:23:04] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| your email and live monitoring does that much data
[2024-01-30 09:23:23] <armagetron-bridge> 13discord:Juesto| who else uses your connection?
[2024-01-30 09:23:24] <armagetronbridge> 13discord:Juesto| who else uses your connection?
[2024-01-30 11:07:53] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| ikr
[2024-01-30 11:07:53] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| ikr
[2024-01-30 11:07:59] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't even torrent that much
[2024-01-30 11:07:59] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| I don't even torrent that much
[2024-01-30 11:08:16] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:delinquent| Downloading crossout mighta done *one* month bt
[2024-01-30 11:08:16] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:delinquent| Downloading crossout mighta done *one* month bt
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[2024-01-30 23:07:59] <Lucifer_arma> I'm getting better at this shoot a video thing. I think I only had to stop the recording once, and that was just to separate the teaser from the body
[2024-01-30 23:08:00] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I'm getting better at this shoot a video thing. I think I only had to stop the recording once, and that was just to separate the teaser from the body
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[2024-01-31 04:14:13] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:master_fitz| no way there is an active community lets go
[2024-01-31 04:14:13] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:master_fitz| no way there is an active community lets go
[2024-01-31 04:15:06] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:master_fitz| I played this game as a kid and decided install it on ubuntu today and saw the server in a server bio
[2024-01-31 04:15:06] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:master_fitz| I played this game as a kid and decided install it on ubuntu today and saw the server in a server bio
[2024-01-31 04:15:37] <armagetron-bridge> 04discord:master_fitz| i played against someone earlier today who changed their name to teacher, probably one of you guys
[2024-01-31 04:15:37] <armagetronbridge> 04discord:master_fitz| i played against someone earlier today who changed their name to teacher, probably one of you guys
[2024-01-31 04:44:34] <armagetron-bridge> 07discord:Nanu| Welcome back! We usually play organized matches in the #pickup channel nowadays with a bot to make teams for us when full lobbies are ready, but only for a few modes. Always welcome to join ๐
[2024-01-31 04:44:35] <armagetronbridge> 07discord:Nanu| Welcome back! We usually play organized matches in the #pickup channel nowadays with a bot to make teams for us when full lobbies are ready, but only for a few modes. Always welcome to join ๐
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[2024-01-31 14:03:38] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:sine.wav| tournaments every month buddy
[2024-01-31 14:03:38] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:sine.wav| tournaments every month buddy
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[2024-01-31 15:44:58] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Shauma34| you don't happen to have any of those "smart" devices do you?
[2024-01-31 15:44:58] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Shauma34| you don't happen to have any of those "smart" devices do you?
[2024-01-31 15:45:52] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Shauma34| ive heard those can (basicly) spy on you and/or eat up tons of bandwidth
[2024-01-31 15:45:52] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Shauma34| ive heard those can (basicly) spy on you and/or eat up tons of bandwidth
[2024-01-31 15:46:33] <armagetron-bridge> 02discord:Shauma34| like those fridges with the giant ass screens on them
[2024-01-31 15:46:33] <armagetronbridge> 02discord:Shauma34| like those fridges with the giant ass screens on them
[2024-01-31 16:59:00] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:shroomy.x| I’m backkkkkm
[2024-01-31 16:59:00] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:shroomy.x| I’m backkkkkm
[2024-01-31 22:29:34] <Lucifer_arma> I know samsung got in trouble a decade ago or so for listening to all conversations with their smart TVs
[2024-01-31 22:29:34] <armagetronbridge> 10irc:Lucifer_arma| I know samsung got in trouble a decade ago or so for listening to all conversations with their smart TVs
[2024-01-31 22:54:56] <armagetron-bridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| ey sorry i havent been playing much lately guys ive been busy on stuff
[2024-01-31 22:54:57] <armagetronbridge> 06discord:ripjaw121219| ey sorry i havent been playing much lately guys ive been busy on stuff
[2024-01-31 23:02:20] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:luisdm365| Anyone know why respawn_time doesnt work? im trying to make a new server and it says command respawn_time not found in the console
[2024-01-31 23:02:20] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:luisdm365| Anyone know why respawn_time doesnt work? im trying to make a new server and it says command respawn_time not found in the console
[2024-01-31 23:04:16] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah, that never made it into mainline armagetron; you have to use a version of tron which includes that command. Which OS are you on? Have you ever compiled the game before?
[2024-01-31 23:04:16] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| yeah, that never made it into mainline armagetron; you have to use a version of tron which includes that command. Which OS are you on? Have you ever compiled the game before?
[2024-01-31 23:04:25] <armagetron-bridge> 15discord:Nélg| or any software
[2024-01-31 23:04:25] <armagetronbridge> 15discord:Nélg| or any software
[2024-01-31 23:06:02] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:luisdm365| im on windows
[2024-01-31 23:06:02] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:luisdm365| im on windows
[2024-01-31 23:06:35] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:luisdm365| i used to have a server like 10 years ago i guess alot has changed
[2024-01-31 23:06:36] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:luisdm365| i used to have a server like 10 years ago i guess alot has changed
[2024-01-31 23:06:51] <armagetron-bridge> 08discord:luisdm365| i'll have to do some digging on the forums
[2024-01-31 23:06:51] <armagetronbridge> 08discord:luisdm365| i'll have to do some digging on the forums
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DISCLAIMER: These logs of public chat may contain some content which may not be appropriate for all audiences. Use at your own risk.
Logs from 2006-2009 pulled from wrtlprnft
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is a site that has tools, maps, and other various items. It orignally only existed as a server control panel, but I slowly began adding stuff such as a homepage and tools.
Gridder
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